Istanbul advice
 

My partner and I are trying to book a vacation during his February break and have decided to go to one city in Europe for what would be a seven day trip. Right now our options are Rome, Madrid or Istanbul. All seem to be comparably priced and we can get nonstops to all of them through Toronto.

I've done research about all three of these cities at various points in the past couple of years. Istanbul intrigues me greatly but also makes me the most nervous. Any thoughts or comments about two gay American guys traveling there. I know the Muslim culture isn't known for their enthusiasm for homosexuality but we are pretty low key.

Not sure what exactly I am asking- maybe for some reassurance that it will be safe and comfortable for us to visit.

Beyond that, any advice on good areas to stay in would be appreciated (preferably areas where restaurants, markets, shopping is all within walking distance)

Thanks

We always thought of visiting Turkey. The final push was a gay couples raving about their trip to that country.

The Fodorite who can answer your question best..is Other Celibi, a resident and curmudgeonly native of Istanbul. He will be specific and informative. I promise.

<b>OC, please chime in for Tom!</b>

Stu

You shouldn't have a problem in Istanbul.

Istanbul is pretty cosmopolitan. Lots of partying and raucous nightlife in Ortakoy.

You do see gay men in Taksim Square/Istiklal Caddesi area during the day.

You would be more conspicuous if you stayed in Sultanahmet, which is a little village around the Blue Mosque. You see lots of foreign Muslims here, women wearing burkas. These are Arab tourists.

Turkish women do not wear Burkas. Some do wear the headscarf and conservative dress.

If you could afford it, stay at the Ciragan Kempinski Hotel.

Lots of gay men running around here. Very high society, sophisticated people not concerned about who you sleep with unless it's a member of the Koc Family.

Thin, in Istanbul July 2005 with Keith, Cousin Muffy, and Mother

We were just there and noticed what may have been many gay couples who appeared to be having a grand time. But I certainly defer to OC, the Istanbul expert.
We just started our TR and have covered our first 5 days in IST.
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...ern-turkey.cfm
Hope you go and have a great trip!

"You would be more conspicuous if you stayed in Sultanahmet,"
I disagree with that statement -- the historic quarter, Sultanhmet, is so jammed with tourists particularly folks coming off the huge cruise ships, that it's hard to notice much of anyone. The streets are packed during the day and it appeared to us to be a lot of European tourists along with tourists from other muslim countries. That said, it was my least favorite part of IST despite its convenience to the major sites.

I've been to Istanbul twice in the last two years and can't imagine you would have any problem. I've stayed both times in the Ortakoy area (at the Radisson Blu) but love poking around in Sultanahmet.

Thanks for the responses so far. I am looking more closely into it and will follow up with more questions once I narrow down my hotel choices.

FWIW, Our favorite Istanbul dining experience was at a "gay" restaurant (all the staff and a majority of the clientele). Reservations are essentail!

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restauran...-Istanbul.html

The Beyoğlu neighborhood, as mentioned, and where the restaurant above was, is where you'll find the local gay population as well as other various artistic types. It's a beautiful neighborhood architecturally and very convenient for tourists. One caveat, parts of it are hilly. There are some very nice VRBO places here. It's a good VRBO city. I would suggest finding a nice 1 BR rental. Many of the oldest buildings have apartments with large terraces.

The pedestrianized, mega-shopping/restaurant/market street - İstiklal - is also in the 'hood. Google "İstiklal" for more info/images.

BTW - 7 days sounds great. We spent a week there and, is the case in some other major tourist cities, it wasn't nearly enough....

tom: I believe that Istanbul may be significantly more cosmopolitan than you might imagine. While attitudes in Rome and Madrid may be more 'traditional' than you might suppose.

Having said that...I'll add my voice to those who are paging OC to the thread. He's most definitely the Istanbul expert here.

If you do end up choosing Istanbul, you could do as we did and split your time between a couple locations to get two different tastes of the local flavor.

If you base yourselves in the touristy Sultanahmet area, I can tell you we really enjoyed the Hotel Empress Zoe. Nicer people cannot be found, and the location is awesome. And their signature cocktail has become somewhat like a religion for ms_go.

Interesting mr_go. I didn't consider that. Good to know. And thanks bardo. That's the type of info in find really helpful.

Oh I didn't notice your second post mr_go. That's not a bad idea - about splitting the stay.

We did the same re splitting time in two different areas.

mr_go, where did you stay when you moved? And what is in that cocktail? Inquisitive minds . . .

You may find the excellent and highly detailed trip report by Fodor's poster tedgale helpful. It is titled Istanbul and the Aegean in Springtime. I printed it out for my Turkey file.

Many Istanbul hotels offer free one way airport transportation.
If you chose two different hotels then you could a free ride both coming and going.

Just my personal opinion but I go back to Rome and Madrid often. Istanbul was a one-time visit.

cw: For the last part of our stay, we picked the Hotel Villa Zurich in Cihangir, an area just to the east of the Istiklal Caddesi and not far from Beyoglu. It has plenty cafes, restaurants and bars, with a much more local feel than Sultanahmet (and even steeper hills).

It was a serviceable place and I had no complaints. But not especially memorable.

Hello Tom42,

Your visit in February means that your best option for lodging will be Cihangir-Taksim area.

February will be colder and wetter than most months although the days will be starting to get longer.

Sultanahmet area will be empty and depressing after dark. The Bosphorus will also not have the vibes of the warmer months.
However, Cihangir, Taksim and Beyoglu will be in full swing.

If you can afford it, another and possibly a better option is Nisantasi-Tesvikiye area, where the beautiful people and yuppies congregate in the Winter.
Not far from this area is a new hotel where Yestravel stayed recently, called La Sagrada, (If I remember correctly) at Osmanbey, less than ten minutes walk from Nisantasi. and more reasonably priced than the hotels at Nisantasi.

You should have no problems due to your life style or preferences. However, Sultanahmet in February will not be as friendly as any of the other areas. And you would be noticed by not only the inquisitive conservative people of that area but also by the scammers and the bounty hunters.

Being together should help you avoid possible hunters in Taksim Istiklal areas also. But, still a warning not to accept offers or invitations for a bar or home visit from slick "nice guys" who would be out to get into your wallets. This is a warning to all young men and not only to gays. Trip Advisor has a few threads on this scam, which is practiced in many other European countries and cities also.

The guy(s) disappear after a few drinks and you are faced with an atrociously high tab, running into hundreds of bucks for just a couple of drinks.

Istanbul has a great deal to share with you and may actually be quite a bit friendlier than Madrid or Rome although I was much older than you when I visited those cities.

You can easily get to the Sultanahmet area from Osmanbey by metro+funicular+tram or from Tesvikiye by dolmus (shared mini van)+funicular+tram or even dolmus+ferry (only early in the morning with an evening return, through Besiktas)

If you haven't decided for certain on Istanbul, I would like to put in a vote for Rome. Admittedly, I've only been to Istanbul twice (30 years apart), and I've been to Rome at least a dozen times; but I can honestly say that I have no desire to return to Istanbul, whereas I have never tired of visiting Rome, and cannot wait to do so again soon. (I do realize that I'm in the minority in my not loving Istanbul.)

If you do decide to go to Istanbul, though, I strongly advise you to stay in any neighborhood but Sultanahmet. Unless you happen to like honky-tonk and used car salesmen.

"Used car salesmen"??? Carpet salesmen, oh yes! But I've never seen a used car salesman in Istanbul. And I'd take Istanbul over Rome, much more interesting.

I found Turkey to be absolutely riveting and would recommend that you go there:

http://altecockertravels.weebly.com/...ange-ever.html

http://altecockertravels.weebly.com/...th-photos.html

http://altecockertravels.weebly.com/...th-photos.html

http://altecockertravels.weebly.com/...s-islands.html

While I am shamelessly shilling for my own website above, I would be remiss if I did not mention turkeytravelplanner.com. That site is the best online site for travel to Turkey and I used it heavily in planning my trip.

We were in Istanbul a month ago and noticed gay couples. We also know two gay couples who regularly go to Istanbul (one half of one of those couples goes there at least once a year for business) and have always had a grand time.

By 'used car salesmen', thursdays, I meant the vibes of the place. Just my opinion/impression, of course. And, as I said, I am well-aware that I am in the minority (a very small minority at that) re: Istanbul.

I probably shouldn't even offer my opinion, but I kinda wish that when I had been doing my research about Istanbul, I had read at least one comment from somebody who didn't go gaga over the place. Then maybe my disappointment would not have been so profound -- and I wouldn't have felt so guilty about not being one of the fans!

Lucie - well, of course, it's good that we don't all like the same places. And it's often subjective, or just a gut reaction. I love Lisbon, but don't care for Madrid, but I know that's just how I react to them. Is that why you don't like Istanbul, or is there something tangible? (I do agree that the sales pressure is annoying, but it's fairly localized.)

"Tangible"? Not sure what you mean, thursdays. All I know is that both times I visited (1977 and 2012), I just didn't <i>like</i> the city; and my hopes were especially high in 2012, having been encouraged to visit by several friends and family members who raved about the place. I especially did not like the feeling that the minute we walked out the door of our lovely hotel in the heart of Sultanahmet, we had to put up a guard against the unending barrage of bull***t sales tactics. I like to be able to wander the streets of a city without feeling like I have to defend myself against assault (and I am NOT talking about physical security -- which I had no issues with in Istanbul, as I rarely do when I travel.)

LucieV,
I feel the same as you. We have recently returned and are glad we went, but disappointed.
I encountered the same tactics and found it much dirtier then expected. All of the stray dogs and cats saddened me and, unfortunately, we witnessed three incidents involving these poor animals.
(Yes, I have been to other places with strays and it saddens me there also.)

I guess, when it comes to strong-arm sales tactics, anywhere is better than India! And I did think it was mostly around Sultanahmet and in the Bazaar. But if you just don't like the city you just don't like it. A bit how I feel about Rome, although I keep meaning to try it again at a cooler time of year.

thursdaysd, fwiw: I did not like Rome at all the first time I went. I fell in love with it the second time...and have felt the same every time since! (Though I always go in late spring or early autumn, and would never go in the summer.)

Also, I loved Cinqueterre immediately, and have returned at least 4 times. But I know it is a place that a lot of people, for various reasons, do not enjoy.

And I hated Paris the first time I went. Then I loved it the next few times. The last time I was there (several years ago): not so much.

In any case, I have no illusions that we all have the same reaction to <i>anything</i> (though for the life of me, I cannot understand somebody not liking Ben and Jerry's Coffee Heath Bar Crunch!)

Goldens: thank you for the validation. I genuinely felt guilty about not enjoying our time in Istanbul, as much because of the amount of money we spent (it was hard not to think, "For this much money, we could have gone someplace we love!") as because everybody else seemed to find it so special.

I also like Rome much more than Istanbul but it is something to see, especially the Topkapi Palas, Dolmahbache Palas, and the Chora Church.

Sultanahmet is the pits, so many carpet salesmen chasing after you. And just sooooo touristy and tacky.

Do NOT stay in Sultanahmet!!!!!!!

Thin is warning you!


Thin

I can think of committing oneself to staying at a location not at all suited to one's tastes in any city in the world and not liking it.

But, it is difficult to understand travelers, especially seasoned ones to decide to put down any city or location on the basis of spending a few days once or twice at the same area instead of looking for different locations and experiences.

I have met many Fodorites who enjoyed all their travels, finding great things to feel good about finding and having some experiences which can best be chalked up for experience and quickly put away in very long term storage.

My pedantic nature and age comes out forth again. If you really know what you like and are rather strict about it then you should do your homework well. No location is like another. Comparisons are useless and worthless. There are no two of Rome or Paris or Istanbul each, so you cannot say number one is better than number two. Places change, people change; both the observed and the observer; but most values, attitudes and beliefs stay the same.

As a short stay tourist I would prefer small, compact Rome to many major European cities.

As a longer term tourist, Paris would be my choice among European cities I have visited.

To live, Istanbul would be my first choice and then London.

But all of the above applies to choices among those cities I have visited and only in Europe.

Not being able to understand more than three languages is my biggest regret because I know that my fears and phobias have prevented me from traveling to some areas of the world when I was younger because I could use the language barrier as an excuse.

Now, I realize that one does not necessarily need a common language in order to communicate, but a belief in homo sapiens, a sense of wonder, a wander lust and most of all, a great deal of empathy.

The fact that all of us who are here as writers and lurkers are here means that we all have those characteristics to a certain degree whether we like places or do not.
, bu
Just ask yourself, "Would I have been a happier or better person if I had not visited that location?"

Money better spent elsewhere is not a very valid preposition in view of the Indian maxim, "What has happened was what was meant to happen" and not meaning that it was fate or kismet but just that, "that's the way it was and what are you griping about?"

By the way, I do not like most ice creams, especially American ones which are over-sweet and can kill a person's delicate taste buds as well as insulin balance.

I agree with all of what you say, OC, except for the ice cream comment--I love ice cream and America does have some very good ice creams -- you just have to know where to look. Come to DC and I will share.

Personally, I don't find comparisons useless and worthless.

Every destination has good and not so good.
I always appreciate comparisons from others, it gives me input into making my own choices. I don't think any comparisons on this thread said one city is better than another, posters were indicating personal preferences.
My time and money are valuable and limited. Sometimes I do wish that I had spent them in a different place. To each his own.

It's great to read everyones impressions and suggestions. I don't think I would dislike any city that I visit although I agree that I like some better than others. I liked London way more than I thought I would. Paris less so. I've been to Berlin and Barcelona and loved both in entirely different ways. In any event, otherchelebi mentioned the weather and that is actually one of the things that I had already added to the "con" list for visiting Istanbul in February. I was in Rome once many years ago right after college. I was on one of those ridiculous 10 cities in 12 days tours with family but I did love Rome and vowed to go back and spend a more proper amount of time there. Part of the problem is that my partner wants to wait until we have more time so we can explore the amalfi coast in addition. That being said we have talked about visiting Istanbul for a couple years now. I love city travel so I know I will enjoy whatever place we decide on. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

Tom42, If you can afford to wait before deciding. check the extended weather reports and make your reservations possibly as late as one week before departure.

Late reservation in the Winter may actually have advantages because of reduced cost due to low demand, whereas, it invariably increases your cost in Tourist season (summers, Easter, Christmas, etc.)

Good weather, meaning freedom from any kind of precipitation will do wonders for your trip and continuous Winter rains with overcast skies throughout your trip can make it miserable no matter which city you visit.

Checking the weather of past year is not very meaningful because probability of weekly repeat performances are statistically and practically very low.

Jumping in a bit late, but I think any one of these cities could be a good choice depending on your interests. And if you have mentioned what those interests are in any of your posts, sorry, but I've missed it.

For 7 days in/around Madrid, consider up to 4 or even 5 full days in Madrid itself if art is a high priority. Near Madrid, Toledo is worth at least 2 full days IMO, Segovia a day, Avila 1/2 day or more, and further afield, Salamanca is easily worth at least 2 full days. Put your time in Madrid at the end so you don't have to worry about getting back before your flight.

For 7 days in/around Rome, you could easily spent all your time there! Waiting until you can add time for the Amalfi Coast really means waiting until you have at least 2 weeks. The Amalfi Coast actually pairs better IMO with Naples and is better visited at a time when ferries are running.

You've already gotten lots of great info about Istanbul, a wonderfully enchanting city that could easily warrant all your available time.

Hope that helps!