alyssamma

Connie, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make in this thread. I'm sure that many people on this thread are part of a FF program and can get a free ticket here or there.

Also, was your ticket 100% free? You didn't have to pay for taxes?

How many tickets could you get? Did you get enough for a family?

Having or not having a FF program doesn't change how expensive Europe is or is not compared to the US.

nonnafelice

Re travelgourmet's comment: "None of the museums [in Boston] are as expensive (or as nice) as the Lourve"

The Museum of Fine Arts in Boston charges $17 admission. Admission to the Louvre is 9 euro or approximately $13.50 at the current exchange rate.

caladrius

It may be, but I'm not discouraged. I do plan on going to London perhaps in the next couple years or so. (After i go to washington dc and save up again. ) I'll be by myself, and i do plan on going the cheaper routes in terms of sleeping arrangements. Hopefully I can figure out some reasonably cheap eating places. But I'm not going to let the cost keep me from going there. I'm sure it can be done, somehow.

travelgourmet

"I think the point is that cost differences don't begin to approach that expected when considering the value of the Euro vs. the US dollar (currently 1 Euro = 1.48 US dollars)."

I sort of agree with this, except that I don't expect €1 to equal $1, so the fx rate is kind of meaningless in assessing cost. For example, $1 equals around THB 30, yet I don't expect Thailand to be 30x cheaper than the US. But, to your broader point, folks shouldn't just look at the fx rate and assume that Europe is expensive.

"I see no reason to expect the differences to be significantly greater on less expensive guided tours or on a self-guided trip -- as long as one is comparing similar lodging, meals, etc."

This is something I really do disagree with. I suspect that prices at the luxury end may be consistent. And I think that true budget travel might be priced consistently. But, at the lower middle to near-luxury markets I completely disagree that one can get "similar" value. Particularly with regards to meals and lodging. At the mid-range, both will be better value in the US. And it wasn't always this way with regard to food, but costs on this front have risen in the EU, and the quality level in the US has risen in the mid-range, such that I think the pendulum has swung in favor of the US.

Local transport is probably comparable. Cross-border transport is more problematic, as the options aren't always comparable - for example, EU budget airlines are significantly more spartan than anything in the US, but they can be cheaper. On the other side, domestic first class on a US carrier is probably a better product than intra-EU premium seats. And this difference is very, very substantial when comparing a top US domestic first class like Continental to a low-end intra-European premium class like Alitalia or KLM.

Pinchme_iam_dreaming

I am no seasoned traveler like others here but I have been to Europe twice. This past Sept we were in Paris,Munich,Wurzburg and Frankfurt. I think the European cities we visited costs about the same as vacation cities in the USA? In Paris meals run anywhere from 10 to 60 Euros at regular restaurants and more at fancy places just like in NYC or LA. The difference is the exchange rate of the Dollar for us Americans but it's not the Europeans fault. They use Euros, 10 Euros to them is like 10 Dollars to us. I do think however that hotels are more expensive in Europe then in America (room for room) Take Paris for example.. Thay have such limited space there that a nice room say at, a Red Roof inn in LA will cost about $100 close to tourist sites in a good area.. In Paris the same room would be 200 Euros or more? In Germany like in Munich, there are cheaper rooms to be had if you are not there at Oktoberfest time. We were there at fest time and paid 440 Euros for 2 nights at the Holiday inn north. The same hotel in NYC in a like area would have been maybe $150 per night? In Wurzburg and Frankfurt we had rooms that were beautiful in great areas for 80 Euros per night. Overall, I would say that if not for the poor exchange rate Europe costs about the same as the USA except for hotels in some cities. We're going back in Sept and even with the bad exchange rate I think it's a good value. Also, Airfares to Europe are not that bad either. We fly from Dallas. Round trip to anywhere in Europe is about 10,000 miles. This year we expect to pay about $950.00 each but if you break that down.. It's only about 9 cents a miles! Heck it costs us about 20 cents a mile to drive to Safeway.

NeoPatrick

"But, at the lower middle to near-luxury markets I completely disagree that one can get "similar" value. Particularly with regards to meals and lodging. At the mid-range, both will be better value in the US. And it wasn't always this way with regard to food, but costs on this front have risen in the EU, and the quality level in the US has risen in the mid-range, such that I think the pendulum has swung in favor of the US."

Sorry, travelgourmet, but I completely DISAGREE with you on that score. Now you're talking about the level I think we travel at -- mid-range to possibly luxury level, both in the US and in Europe, and pretty extensively too. Again, as with many posts above, special prices can be found either place, but overall, we find that the same "type" or "level" of restaurant in major cities in Europe tends to be higher quality and better value than in the US -- or certainly no more than equal in price. Taking into account wine in particular -- Europe becomes a better bargain. We find a nice bottle of bordeaux in France far surpasses in qualiy and value than the same price paid at a nice US restaurant for a good bottle of cabernet, for example. We find a spectacular three course dinner in Paris often far surpasses three courses at a similarly nice restaurant in most US cities, where starter, main course, and dessert are nearly always priced separately. (I'm not talking about tasting menus, I rarely do those).

While you and I may have different standards of "quality" in hotels, I'll much prefer a nice $250 -$275 a night superior room in Paris at a place like Le Regent to a generic but quality similar priced Hyatt or Marriott or Wyndam in San Francisco or New York. I only wish I could find a similar hotel for the price in Ameican Cities, but I rarely can, except at tiny "European style boutique hotels" which usually are more like $400 a night in the US. While you may focus your "value" on things like room service or other amenities, I may focus my value on style and furnishings, prefering things like walls upholstered in toile fabrics to beige vinyl commercial wallcoverings on all the walls.

I realize these arguments can never be settled as we all have different tastes, and no matter what, someone will always come up with a way to get something cheaper either place. Let's face it you can't even really "name a specific price" for a good meal in Los Angeles. What restaurant you go to and what you even order between very similar restaurants can still be night and day in terms of price, so how can we really ever compare apples to oranges? Your apple, may be my orange. Do you really want to argue about which is cheaper or better value -- Spago or Nobu? Trying to compare similar places is a lost cause. A couple may spend $200 at one and $300 at the other, go back a week later and spend exactly the opposite amounts. So how on earth can anyone compare what they spend at a US restaurant to a "similar" one in Europe -- except as an overall average? That's what I'm doing -- feeling we eat at "similar" levels of restaurants both places, and spending no more overall at the European counterparts (but often finding the food, value, and certainly the wines to considerably surpass).

But again, I will firmly disagree with your generality about mid-range pricing being higher for the same quality in European cities compared to US cities. Sorry, you don't have to agree with me -- but then you and I aren't comparing the same apples to the same oranges. You may prefer a MacIntosh and I may prefer a Granny Smith -- even though both may be identically priced in the supermarket! Pretty hard to compare value when the basic tastes may even be different.

anita63

I see lots of people are confounded at the 'amount of research' I have done. Trust me, I did. It never occured to me that when i wrote my travel dates in my post (dec.27-jan5) that I had to spell out that I was there over New Years which is very expensive. Restaurants had signs in their windows 'advertising' their holiday specials that were never lower than 50 euro per person, and often a cover charge on top of that.

And as a side note: I always hesitate posting on here, as I find some (I said SOME) people seem to be more interested in finding fault in other posts instead of appreciating the comments for what they are worth...simple observations from people who have 'been there, done that' in their experience.

Thank you to the poster who rightly so pointed out the 'high season' versus the 'low season' arguement.

Happy travels to all. You can bet your bottom dollar that i won't be posting my observations on my upcoming Australia trip in this forum.

NeoPatrick

How sad for you, that you'd rather take your ball and go home instead of simply answering why your situation was INCREDIBLY unique. MANY hotels in Paris do NOT raise their rates for those dates -- trust me on this, but you could have also mentioned your problem was due to the fact that so many hotels were already fully booked and you had a hard time finding one that wasn't (clearly you must not have booked very far ahead if all the hotels in Paris under 230 euros were booked). Some of us are not mindreaders, and a simple explanation is often required rather than disappearing off in a huff because someone dared to question your post.

Saying "I researched hotels extensively, and found this to be the least expensive option for a room with a private bath that wasn't a half hour outside of Paris" seems a lot different than saying "we had a difficult time finding a hotel under 230 euros that wasn't already fully booked over the holidays." I doubt that anyone would have raised an eyebrow if you had said the latter.

By the way, friends of mine just stayed at LeRegent for 190 euros in a SUPERIOR room for five nights arriving on Christmas Eve. They booked that on my recommendation sometime in November when they decided to go to Paris, so I DO know what I'm talking about here. They also mentioned the hotel was at least half empty for the first couple of nights -- Christmas Eve and Christmas Day, but seemed pretty full on three days after Christmas.

bkluvsNola

anita63,

No problem. I saw people questioning whether you had done the right investigation when clearly they didn't realize you were there during high priced New Years.

Honestly, I think you probably got the best deal possible. Sure, if you would have waited until mid January the prices would have been cheaper, but you were there during New Year's, and that's when you had to make the comparison.

My point was that during festivals, high season, etc... Europe is far more expensive than the US.

That being said, there's nothing like being in Europe during high season (whether summer, New Years, Easter, or what have you), when the excitement and energy are there, just as there's nothing like being in New Orleans during Mardi Gras, Jazz Fest, or other festive times. But you do have to pay for it

bkluvsNola

NeoPatrick,

You state "Some of us are not mindreaders" but she explicitly said in her post the dates of her travel. If you would have just *read* the post, you would have realized that.

anita63

"...but you could have also mentioned your problem was due to the fact that so many hotels were already fully booked and you had a hard time finding one that wasn't (clearly you must not have booked very far ahead if all the hotels in Paris under 230 euros were booked). Some of us are not mindreaders, and a simple explanation is often required rather than disappearing off in a huff because someone dared to question your post."

Gee...you claim to not be a mind reader yet you believe that (1) my post was directed to you and (2)you knew my circumstances of booking.

And I so do appreciate that you are sad for me. Nice to know you care.

travelgourmet

"feeling we eat at "similar" levels of restaurants both places, and spending no more overall at the European counterparts (but often finding the food, value, and certainly the wines to considerably surpass)."

I suspect you might be eating at the wrong restaurants, then. In a place like Boston or New York or San Francisco, I think you can easily eat for a week, at least, and never have a meal that will be "considerably surpassed" by a European restaurant of similar standing. Certainly, this is true at the very high end, where a place like French Laundry or Jean-Georges or Charlie Trotter's would be rivaled (and never consistently beaten) by only a handful of European restaurants. Of course, the same would be true of the Fat Duck or El Bulli going the other way.

As for the wine... Well, the Judgement of Paris and several tastings of a similar type would disagree with you. I suspect that your displeasure may have more to do with unfamiliarity than anything else. I probably fall in the opposite camp, where I can intelligently select from a New World-heavy list, but am often flying blind on a French-heavy list.

anita63

Thank you bkslvnola for (1) pointing out the obvious to other poster and (2) for 'getting' that I was there over high period.

You are right about the 'vibe' on new years...it was awesome being on the Place du Concord sipping champagne and watching the Eiffel tower light up. Pay dearly...yes we did...but what terrific family memories I have with my husband and teens.

NeoPatrick

travelgourmet, you and I will have to continue to disagree. I KNOW what I like. I KNOW where I eat. Your opinions and mine are simply not the same, nor apparently will they ever be. That's fine. That's what makes the world go round.

Once again, I have no idea why keep talking about Charlie Trotters and French Laundry and other high end places in THIS conversation. I'm talking about eating in typical neighborhood bistros and family run restaurants in both the US and Europe -- that's what I call mid range. Some are better than others in either place. Regarding the wines, I'm talking about buying a $25 - $30 dollar bottle of good (not spectacular) French bordeaux (lots of European places still have a nice selection of good wines at 19 euros) at a nice bistro in Paris but nothing drinkable in my book for that price in most similar restaurants in the US, in fact many "average newer restaurants in the US" seem to have NO bottles of anything under $40 these days. And no, I'm far more familiar with California wine names than French. But we're not talking about ordering Silver Oak Cab here. $25 on most US wine lists in restaurants doesn't leave you much above Ernest and Julio category. I suspect you're back to talking about $75 to $150 bottles of wine.

NeoPatrick

"My point was that during festivals, high season, etc... Europe is far more expensive than the US."

Huh? Once again the same is true either place. Have you tried booking a mid town Manhattan hotel for New Year's Eve? Or a Pasadena Hotel during Rose Bowl, or a New Orleans hotel during Mardi Gras?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"Gee...you claim to not be a mind reader yet you believe that (1) my post was directed to you and (2)you knew my circumstances of booking."

Huh? What do either of those things have to do with mindreading?
I'll admit to having a little bit of common sense, however. My point on the second issue is precisely that since I'm NOT a mindreader, I had no way of knowing you were talking about last minute bookings and that the hotels at your price were already filled -- not simply "non existent".

anita63

Neo...I NEVER mentioned or implied that I booked last minute. YOU came to that conclusion, so therefore you must be trying to read my mind.

You know...it's people like you that make forums like this not worth the effort.

My appolgies to the original post for taking up valuable space with this rediculous discussion.

NeoPatrick

Anita, read my post. I said friends booked LeRegent in November for over Christmas for 190 euros. I didn't imply before that you weren't telling the truth, but now if you want to insist that you checked with LeRegent and dozens and dozens of other hotels months ahead and they all wanted more than 230 euros then I will doubt you. Is that clear?

I know you're thinking I'm the one making an issue here, but I'll stand my my point that all your post needed originally was the statement that hotels were fully booked -- not an implication that such hotels don't exist. You're right. It is a ridiculous discussion. Sorry I ever made a suggestion that would have made your post clearer. Obviously clarity is not important to you, so I apologize for bringing it up.

anita63

Thank you for your appology, Neo...that was very nice of you.

aimeekm

Anita,

I'm not a frequent poster here, as there are many with far more experience traveling than myself. But I use these boards extensively to plan my vacations. One of the things I rely on these boards most for is the price of food and meals. Airfare, lodging, transportation costs can all be easily found, planned for and/or prepaid. I think the average Fodorite has enough internet skills to find a hotel in a good location with good reviews (better than Day's Inn) for less than 230e. It's harder to know how much to budget for my meals and misc costs. I'm definitely a budget traveler, but not to the extent that I'm wiling to sacrifice good food, or eat all my meals from what I can assemble from a supermarket.

One of the reasons I responded to your post to dispute the cost of food, is that is where I feel there is a lack of information here on Fodors. When researching Paris last year, posts that were asking for inexpensive food/restaurants, seemed to only get three types of responses: Picnic / fix meal in an apt., Eat at ethnic places, i.e. falafel places, or recs for places that were 30e pp +. I was seriously worried I would have to blow my food budget in Paris in order to eat what I wanted to eat. I am okay with a picnic or two, but I want to experience local restaurants. I love ethnic food, but I live in Los Angeles, so I get my fill here, I want to eat local food when I travel. And 30e + is not my idea of budget!

I was so pleasantly surprised when I got to Paris and there was all of this great food that is very affordable. I try to share my experience when I see a post about how unaffordable good food is in Paris (or Barcelona, but that's not as common).

Anita, I understand you were there over New Years, but I still find it hard to believe that you had no affordable options. I mean Parisians had to eat, and I doubt they were all paying 50e + for special holiday menus. Neighborhood bistros and cafes all only had special holiday menus? Bakeries, crepe stands, sandwich shops were all closed?

This isn't meant to be an attack, or to dissuade you from future posts, but I would hate for someone to read your post and think that they can't afford Paris.

anita63

Thank you aimeekim for your reply.

I am trying really really really hard here to be polite and unoffended as it is getting tiresome that people simply will not believe my experiences in Paris over New years regarding food.

I also use this site to help plan many other trips and also depend on the accuracy of the information. It would never occur to me that someone would lie about costs and such. Exactly what do I have to do here to prove what i paid for the food? Should I scan my visa and reciepts to prove to those questioning my post that I paid -overpaid- for food?

I qualified my post with saying that it WAS possible to do things on the cheap, but we opted not to go the grocery store route. We stopped at bistro's and cafe's in the touristy parts of paris over a holiday period, and yes it was $$. And, for your information, picking was slim as many places adhered to holiday schedules or not open at all.

I appreciate your tone, in that you are not blatenly rude to me as some other posters, but you have to understand how annoying this has become for me. I simply wrote about MY experiences, like every other person does, in what I paid for food in Paris over new years.

I find it insulting that the purpose of this venue is to share experiences, and when so done, I am criticised and accused of unable to work a computer, find a better deal, or being accurate. I do not post often because I have seen how many people respond in an unflatering way, but it never occured to me that this was sport for some. What the heck is the point of this venue anyway?