Dukey

You know I hate to be the contrarian here but when London gets to be as "cheap" as new York would someone let me know?

NeoPatrick

OK, Dukey, I'm letting you know.

We did a month in New York this past May/June. Then we did 10 days in London. We had a real deal on an apartment by the month in NYC and spent quite a lot for our flat short term in London. But ignoring the housing (which many people seem to indicate can be priced comparatively between the two cities) our expenses were pretty much identical in both cities. We find we do pretty much the same type "local, but central" restaurants in both and find the prices very similar, do the same amount of theatre in both, and take the same type of public transportation in both. My usual Pret and Manger for coffee and a snack in the morning is cheaper than Starbucks, Cosi, or World Cafe (?) for the same in NYC. Museums are expensive in NYC and we did a lot of them. They are mostly free in London and we did a lot there too. Theatre used to be so much cheaper in London than NYC, but now they are quite similar (although we have much better luck in London getting half price tickets to shows we want to see and without much in fee addons). Otherwise we find little to no difference in the two in terms of cost.

Cowboy1968

NeoPatrick..

Yes, I would second your assessment that a city-to-city tour can or will be as costly in the US as in Europe.
I wonder how much the price tag (excl. airfare) on a 10-12 day trip would be if you only stayed in nice 4* hotels in NYC, DC, Boston, Chicago, SF, a cool lodge in Carmel or Bar Harbor, and one at the Grand Canyon, Las Vegas on a weekend plus a show, etc.

travelgourmet

Cowboy1968: Except that those 4* hotels will be of a higher standard in the US than in Europe. And, while I agree that most of the essentials (lodging, transport, meals, excursions) are priced similarly, if one does any shopping, they will definitely pay more in Europe than in the US.

suze

Depends where you go. And if you are talking about organized tour groups (which seemed to be the point of our post) or independent traveling.

Michel_Paris

A recent thread here on this topic had someone compare their week at Disneyworld versus a week in the countryside of Italy. Essentially the.. same $.

Christina

yeah, but a week at Disneyworld isn't remotely the same kind of vacation as a week in the countryside of Italy. The proper comparison would have been a week in the countryside in the US. I remember some old thread on that, and I think the costs were distorted because the person was staying in deluxe hotels in Disneyland, renting a car, etc, and then going budget in Europe. My sister cannot afford expensive vacations and did a budget one to Disneyworld (her kid liked it) and it was really cheap. She did not rent a car and did not stay in deluxe hotels, and got real cheap airfare to Florida from Ohio. She never could have done a vacation to Europe for that money.

I think costs are a little higher in Europe, actually, on vacation for comparable things, but not a whole lot. Airfare is one of the biggest chunks of European vacation costs, of course, outside those costs. I pay more for drinks and food in Europe, a bit, and museum fees seem to be higher there (not that this is a big chunk of budget, but still).

travelgourmet

"The proper comparison would have been a week in the countryside in the US."

And this is the point isn't it? Take this quote, for example (not trying to single anyone out, sorry):

"For instance, a traditional hotel in Ronda in April - about 90€ a night for a very nice, traditional, big but not flashy room in a historic building."

I have never spent $130 for a hotel room in anything other than a major city in the US. And even in many major cities, you can find bargains that you won't find in Europe, particularly if you use Priceline.

isabel

I have found Europe to generally be a better bargain than the EQUIVALENT in the US. For example - comparing vacations in Andalucia Spain and the Southeast Coast of the US. Both are in very warm climates, making spring their "high" seasons. Last March I went to Seville and Granada - mid size cities - not small rural areas, but not major cities either. My hotel rooms were about 65€ (at todays rates $95) - smack in the historic city centers. This coming March I am going to Charleston and Savannah - also mid size cities with historic centers. Hotels in the city centers are at least twice that much. Yes you can find cheaper rates at other times of the year, but the same is true of Spain. And yes you can stay for less at a chain hotel 20 minutes drive from the city center, also the same is true in Spain. So comparing "apples to apples", Europe comes out ahead.

Comparing London to NY - again, I've found London wins. I've stayed at a very nice litle hotel, in central London for £46 a night. Please tell me where I can find a clean, safe, ensuite hotel room in Manhattan for under $100 (including full breakfast).

travelme

I dont know if a lot of us would spend a week in New York City for a vacation so its really hard to make that comparison. I do think that many cities in the US might be a quite a bit cheaper for lodging and for meals than in Eurpoe. Certainly cheaper than London for sure.
However, I am going to Spain in two weeks and I was delighted to find a website called menudeldia.com that lists many restaurants with their menu of the day that includes a three course meal +
a beverage averaging about 10 euro or 15 dollars a day. This is for the midday meal so dinner is more expensive. This is an exceptional value. Some places had 8 euro menus.
We plan not to spend more than $1000 for the week on lodging and meals for the two of us. I think this is reasonable. This will be our third trip to euroland in the past two years. Each time the dollar has weakened. As much as we love Europe, we might just explore more of South and Central America for a foew years. The dollar has to improve! This downward spiral cannot last for years.

Vttraveler

Last year we spent 115 euros/night for three people in a very centrally located 2BR apartment in Rome. I certainly cannot imagine finding a comparable deal in NYC or Boston. I thought inexpensive food was somewhat harder to find in Rome but we had the option of cooking for ourselves if we wanted to save. Public transportation there is very affordable and if you stay in a central location you can walk to most of the major sites.

Clifton

travelgourmet, I don't mind you singling my post out. You're right, we could have easily paid less for a room in Ronda. Wouldn't have been the same thing of course, a more plain-jane room on the outskirts of town would have been much more affordable and almost as convenient.

So four poster beds, fireplace and a few amenities, but still very Spanish seemed nice. It was to be our first day in Spain, having just spent a few weeks in Morocco in much more budget accommodation (and not knowing at booking time how that was going to feel by the time we got to Spain.). So a bit of a treat, but - still very reasonable for the type of place that it was and I can't imagine the same room in the center of a historic US would be any cheaper. Which is what I was getting at.

Michel_Paris

I think the point to be made is that a generalization that Europe is expensive and USA is cheap can be incorrect. Similarly, recent threads about the value of the euro have now made Europe out of reach are...incorrect. It's all a matter of what your expectations are, and being willing to adjust them.

I can get a hotel in non-central Paris cheaper/comparable than the suburbs of Chicago. I can also get (better) meals cheaper than that suburb. Flights...tougher, but going off-season and during the week, I can make that gap reasonable. So...should I go to the suburbs of Chicago this year or Paris?

alyssamma

I find this a very fascinating thread. I think there are a few points that haven't been mentioned yet...

1) A lot depends on your family size. In Europe, most budget hotels charge per person. So, 2 adults + 1 child in a room pay for 3 people (there are some exceptions - Novotel being a good one, but they tend to be more expensive). In the US children stay for free at most budget hotels.

2) I've seen the Lon vs. NYC comparisons, and I just don't get it. Lon is incredibly expensive. I find that in *general* what you would pay for in US $ in NYC you pay for in Pounds in Lon.

3) Regardless of anything else, the US $ has been falling, so a European trip is more expensive now than in the past. It wasn't that long ago the US $ and Euro were at parity. Now it varies between $1.40 and $1.45.

4) As many have said, airfare to Europe is really expensive now. That must be factored into any trip.

5) Finally, to the OP, for my family of 5 I find the cost of a European trip to be too expensive right now. We live in the midwest, and the cost of airfare for us going to the west coast is roughly 1/2 of the cost of us going to Europe.

6) I lied, this is the final point Someone else mentioned Disney vs. Europe. We did 8 days in Disney (on a budget - rented a villa, only ate in a restaurant 1 day, etc.) for 7 people last November. We also did Holland and Belgium for 6 days with 6 people in July, again on a budget (eating mostly street food or at local restarants, budget hotels, etc.). The Disney trip was 15% cheaper. This was when the Euro was $1.35...

Kevin

travelgourmet

"I've seen the Lon vs. NYC comparisons, and I just don't get it. Lon is incredibly expensive. I find that in *general* what you would pay for in US $ in NYC you pay for in Pounds in Lon."

With the exception of lodging, I agree with this. And I am a pretty frequent visitor to both places. Of course, lodging is such a big component that I'm not sure how it would all net out.

Carolina

I think you can travel quite cheaply to London with a bit of planning and care. Hotels on priceline - I will be paying $100 per night including taxes. Travel passes are reasonable and the public transport system is very good. Food - cheap meals in pubs etc., sandwich shops, supermarkets, snack bars. Sightseeing - walking around the parks, squares etc. Museums - fantastis and free.
Sure it's not the cheapest city but you can have a reasonably priced trip.

Carolina

To get away from the city comparisons, this is what I spend on an average day in Greece: 3 rooms - simple, clean, private bathrooms, directly on beach = 80euro per day, snack lunch and soft drinks for 4 people = 20 euros, evening meal with wine, beer and water in nice taverna (4 people)= 60 euros, drinks in bar after dinner, snacks, newspaper etc. = 40 euros. Total = 200 euro per day, or about $130.

Cowboy1968

I think we will all find comparisons that can prove either point of view.

Comparing the Tuscany countryside or Provence in July to the countryside of Kansas does not make much sense, IMO. If you start comparing it with the Maine countryside (or better, seaside) during foliage, or a weekend in Sedona, or on a dude ranch in WY, you will get another picture. Since few of us will agree on what will be a proper comparison, this may lead nowhere.

Shopping is rather hard to compare, since some people don't get more than the usual souvenirs, while others raid Prada or Gucci. Most of us will probably be somewhat in between.

Another issue is transportation. Many visitors from overseas enjoy to take the train, and there is nothing to say against it. But you will find the majority of European travelers (when longer distances have to be covered) lining up at the counters of Ryanair, Easyjet or others. Chain motels like Etap, or anything else from the less fancy sections of Accor will let you sleep on a budget even in Paris - but not with a view of Notre Dame.

I would never go so far and pretend that you could travel in grand style across Europe like 5 years ago, and pay less than in the U.S.

alyssamma

Carolina, were you quoting USD? If so, 200 euro is about $290.

To others who have mentioned Priceline, this is an option for solo or two people traveling together. It is *much* more difficult to do this with a family. Location is more important and not all hotel will allow a child in the room (or, in London, even have space for it).

travelgourmet

"It is *much* more difficult to do this with a family."

Only if you are looking for 3+ people in a room. But this will be a premium, whether you use Priceline or not. For a family that wants 2 rooms, Priceline is still as viable of an option as anything else.