Is this Customary? Paying for Agriturismo Upfront
 

I am in the midst of booking an Agrituismo apartment for a stay in May 2010.

The proprietor has informed me that he requires 50% of the total stay down now (upon booking) and the remainder 90 days prior to our stay. However, if we wish to pay 2009 rates, then the payment must be received before Dec 31, 2009. If we do not pay by the end of the year, the price of the apartment will go up in excess of 4%.

While I feel that 50% upfront is excessive, I am prepared to pay that now however, I do have a problem with locking in the 2009 rates by paying before the end of the year. In my opinion by paying 50% now, I am contracting the room at the agreed upon rate.

This just doesn't sit right with me. Is this standard practice? Or am I just being nitpicky?

FWIW I can pay either with paypal or credit card, but there is a 4% surcharge on that. I am sure that is standard as those fees are usually passed on to the customer. But I prefer making deposits on a credit card in the event the credit card insurance is required.

I agree that paying the deposit should lock in the rate. Are you sure you want to stay with this guy?

There are hundreds of agriturismos. If you post a location/budget we might be able to suggest alternatives.

The increased rates aside - having to pay up front is totally normal. Not universal, but nothing out of the ordinary. So w/ or w/o the "discount", paying before arrival can be required anywhere.

Also many places do post increased rates "<i>2009 - €85 per night. 2010 - €89 per night</i>" or some such.

I personally don't see anything particularly wrong w/ paying in advance to get the lower rate. From the owner's perspective, the is cutting you a deal. If you don't like their terms, look for a different place.

I think the terms offered are not all that unusual. Our apartment in Venice had these terms:

<Payment: A nonrefundable deposit of 50% of the total price, either in US $ or euros, is due upon confirmation of the reservation. The balance is due at least 4 weeks before arrival. Reservations made later than 8 weeks before arrival are due in full at the time the reservation is made.>

Full payment 90 days prior is pretty heavy, though.

We've rented 40 gites in France through Gites de France. Initial payments, final payments, and security depostits run pretty much the same.

About 25% initial payment when you sign the contract.
Remainder 60 days or so before the rental starts.
350E to 700E refundable security deposit when we arrive.

We always reserve the year before we plan to stay in the gite. The rental rate we pay is the rate at the time of our stay - even if the proprietor has not determined that yet. We've never been offered the opportunity to lock in the previous year's (this case, '09) rental rate.

Stu Dudley

Apart from locking in the previous year's rate (which of course the owner thinks is a big favor to you, and is), it's all very typical.

When I was renting my place in France I had similar terms. You probably have no idea how many people change their minds, change their dates, want to bring more people than they originally did, want to do a Sunday-to-Sunday rather than a Saturday-to-Saturday (thereby throwing off your entire rental calendar)...all sorts of "exceptions" to your policies. It's a pain.

That said, if the terms aren't agreeable to you, you can probably find a place whose terms are.

Be very sure of the refund policy if you change your mind. Also, if you have travel insurance, you may be able to protect yourself against lost deposits if an unforseen emergency comes up.
Some policies, although more expensive, have cancel for any reason clauses. I don't know if changing you mind about a property would get your deposit back, though.
Prepaying a portion to hold the reservation is standard, I think.

Wow I did not expect all this reponse from my question...

"Travel, indeed life, is like that. There are no firm answers to just about anything. Even the conditions of contract for renting holiday accommodation."

This statement sums up why I asked the question. I have rented villas in France, Italy, and charter sailboats in the Carribean. All with similar deposit policies and payment schedules. Based on past experiences, from the time I first make an initial deposit to the time I take the villa/boat, usually spans across a fiscal year. I can't think of a time that I was charged the next years rate once I made my initial deposit, even though I did not fully pay up before year end. That initial deposit locked in my price.

I think of it as business contract, I am providing consideration (inital deposit) for an item at an agreed upon price. Usually the terms/price does not change once I have made a deposit.

With that said, I don't think the proprietor is being dishonest. I just thought this policy was unusual, which prompted me to ask my question.

Well, catsailor, if you want to start a really controversial topic here, just ask a really simple question like "Do you think I might need a hat in Switzerland in Winter?"
Stand by for responses like:
Why are you going to Switzerland?
What do you mean by "hat"?
I'd never take a hat because it is too hard to pack.
I'd only take a beret.
I'd only take an ice axe, a bikini and a Panama hat.
What town in Switzerland does your cruise liner depart from?
Don't eat chocolate in Switzerland.
Don't buy Rolexes in Switzerland, they are all fake.
It's not Switzerland, it's Confederation of Helvetia.

And so on.
Charter sailing in the Carribean sounds like fun!

kybourbon: No we are not renting for a week - 5 nights. We combined the nights of hotel stays in Siena and San Gim and opted to stay in an Agriturismo. Unfortunately our stay will be Tues-Sun. Most Agriturismos require a Sat-Sat booking, therefore we have limited options. I have already checked LeTorri and they require Sat-Sat stay. We just couldn't make it work as we need to depart on a Sunday. We cannot really alter our days so I have to go with what works.

I did check the one Zeppole recommended and it looks quite nice and I have it short listed albeit we must book the B&B rooms versus an apartment as they rent by the day, apartments do not. The other one with the prepayment policy in question allows flexible bookings to suit our needs.

Bascially we are looking for somewhere to stay in Tuscany that provides a good base for day trips throughout the surrounding region. We want to visit Siena, San Gim, Montalpuciano or Montalcino or even Cortona (now I have to get a map out as I don't know how far Cortona is from the Chianti region), go wine tasting, soak in the countryside, etc. The choice of an Agriturismo gives us a nice break from hotels. We would like to stay in a 2 bedroom apartment to give us a little space. A kitchen would also be nice at this point in our trip to give us the option/flexibilty of making a simple meal as we will have been eating in restaurants up to this point. A producing vineyard would be a wonderful place to stay. And we do not want to be staying somewhere with a bunch of little kids running around.

Peter_S_Aus: Charter sailing in the Carribean is an awesome experience! But I still have sailing in the Whitsundays on my wishlist. And there is nothing like snorkeling/scuba diving in the GBR - especially off Lizard Island.

Catsailor. I am almost afraid to suggest anything in this thread. But several years ago we stayed at Collelungo in Castellina in Chianti. I found the place in Bon Appetite.
I see by looking at the website that they do not require a week stay or a Sat-Sat stay. At least they did not then and by just a quick look they still don't seem to. They post daily rates for three to six days.
There are new owners now and they probably have different rules about rates, etc. But the apartments are very nice and it is very close to Castellina.
Good luck.

cat - Just because a place has rentals Sat-Sat, doesn't mean you have to stay the entire time if you are willing to pay the weekly price unless they only allow check-in on Saturday (many will be flexible if you ask). At some places, like Le Torri, where the rates are so cheap, it makes sense to pay the weekly rate even if you only plan to stay the five nights.

Thank you to everyone who assisted in answering my question. Albeit my subject title did not fully describe the question, but did spark quite a controversy.

To be clear, I realize that paying a deposit in advance is standard procedure. I have done this in the past for various other types of accomodation ranging from villas to bareboat yacht charters.

It was the locking in the rate by paying by year end that didn't sit well with me as I haven't ever dealt with anyone that required this before. Given current economic conditions, most places I have contacted have offered rates lower than their published prices. I then have one place insisting on a 50% down now and remainder by year end to lock in 2009 as an increase is on the horizon. Unfortunately this place is my number one choice so I either suck it up and pay now or look around for something else.

Zeppole: You are right on the money regarding my subject title. I reflected on that last night and that is what opened the discussion. But that was not my question! I feel bad this thread had to degnerate to the level it did.

Regarding your original suggestion, we still may book there, however, they can only offer us a single room each instead of apartment. We feel it would be nice to have some space, sitting area or private outdoor area in the event we just want to read a book or relax. They also offered me a rate significantly lower than their published rate which of course is enticing. I guess in essence that prompted my question. Anyways I will research the links you provided. Thank you.

Sher: I will look at your suggestion as well. Sounds interesting that you found the place in Bon Appetite. I enjoy that magazine.

kybourbon: I realize I did not have to stay the entire week, which was what I was willing to do, however since my dates cross over into a second week - requiring a Sunday departure, I would have to book Le Torri for 2 weeks for a 5 night stay. The way we have planned our trip we really cannot juggle our dates to make it work without causing unnecessary backtracking as we fly into Rome and out of Venice. We start in Rome, 3 nights, Sorrento 4 nights, somewhere in Tuscany 5 nights, Venice 2 nights.

catsailor. I do not know how much room you need. We rented one of the one bedroom, one bath units but they even have at least one unit with two bedrooms and two bathrooms.
It was featured many years ago. But it gets very good reviews on TripAdvisor.
Each unit is self-contained but they also have a separate lounge with tv and honor bar and their wine is pretty good.
Good Luck.

FWIW I contacted Collelungo (recommended by Sher). Received a response this morning.

They are able to accomodate us in a 2 brdrm, 2 bath unit with 35% down now , balance due 4 weeks before we stay. Since we are booking in this far in advance, a 5% discount.

Two comments based on personal experience.
1. Applying surcharges when you pay by credit card is ILLEGAL in Italy (unlike what happens elsewhere, e.g. the UK). You could report this malpractice to Visa Italy (or whatever circuit is this one you are using).
2. May is not peak season. I have stayed numerous times at agriturismo places in the Siena area at that time of year, often just for 1 or 2 days. You should be able to find plenty of accommodation, except over weekends -- even winging it when you are there, as I sometimes do.

Zeppole: The links you posted earlier have disappeared. Could you perhaps be so kind to repost. I did not get a chance to check them out yesterday.

furs: The proprietor indicated that the 4% surcharge would be labelled as "shipping". Interesting...

catsailor. So are you saying when you contacted Collelungo that by paying now you get a 5% discount and the price will be the same for next May?
Or maybe they quoted next year's prices to you.
I am curious because of the original question which I like many others misinterpeted before.

catsailor, I'm not sure if you need to stay in a certain area of Tuscany, but we staying in Pienza
in May. We are staying at Fonte Bertusi for four nights. www.fontebertusi.it. It was recommended by many on Fodors.We are staying in an apartment for two, but they do have others for rent with more than one bedroom. Breakfast is included. Our daily rate is 130 euro.
They have a 30% cancellation policy and state 30% is due at reservation with the remainder due the afternoon before leaving. We booked in August and have not been charged yet. It looks quite nice. Good luck in your search.
Judy