BTW. Lawchick
I share your eating disorder ;-)
My husband and I also have a drink problem.
We always have half a litre of wine with our meal.
Actually, we find in Italy that there is usually a fairly long pause between courses, so that you can sip your wine, people watch and allow the previous course to go down.
Many's the time we have gone into an Italian restaurant and noticed an Italian party already there.
We take at least two hours over a meal, but when we leave, the Italian family will still be there enjoying their leisurely meal.

MissPrism wrote: "Padraig ... is a very helpful and informative person."

Are you trying to stir up trouble? I have been in the wars here lately.

[Thanks for the kind words.]

<i>but if you ask for advice on a European forum and Europeans give it to you, they why question it?
I don't visit the American forum, but I wonder if you get Europeans arguing the toss with the local residents.</i>

Why visit the American forum? Just find a thread about tipping and you can listen to all of the Europeans question the practice, or boldly proclaim that 20% is too much.

In general, though, I think the premise isn't as air-tight as some would make it seem. Europe is a big place, with quite a bit of diversity, so it isn't clear that a Swede knows more about Italy than an American, for instance. I mean, I'm an American, but I know precious little about Wyoming.

Then there is the issue of what you are asking about. Tourists might be better able to give advice on specific hotels than a local. For example, I used to live in Boston, but until maybe a week before I moved, I had never stayed in a hotel room there. I could tell you that the Colonnade and the Marriott are close to each other and in a good location, but I couldn't tell you anything about the quality of the rooms. I could tell you that the restaurant in the Colonnade serves a mean steak tartare, though.

I think that if the people on the board were being helpful that is one thing but they go on to ridicule people and that is not being helpful that is being a jerk. Not everyone on this board reads every other post so they might miss some &quot;helpful&quot; information that the knowledgable Europeans posted. There is no reason to be rude to anyone asking a question and then making fun of them regardless of where they are from, what they are wearing or what they choose to eat at dinner.

Jeez, folks, it's just a discussion!

I've always found Padraig's comments useful and insightful. He wasn't being rude.

Coleena, you need to develop a thicker skin if you're going to frequent internet forums full of strangers with varying opinions. And sticking to the topic helps. I'm sure we all sympathize with your mother's plight, but that wasn't the point, and now you're all whiny about it.

&quot;In Ireland, unlike much of continental Europe, we do have a tipping culture,&quot;

ummmm...this is a rather recent trend (at least in some parts of Ireland - I will not speak for all). Tipping is now the norm in places it was never before (5-10yrs ago)...Celtic Tiger has changed many things :-)

In some cultures, tipping is not considered a polite - in some cases it is actually offensive. I REALLY believe everyone should observe locals and follow their customs on this front!! (i.e I DO tip in Ireland now. I DO NOT TIP IN non-touristy areas of ITALY where most places are owner/family run! If I want to be polite, I order an after-dinner drink or coffee.)

I haven't read this thread for a while and missed some things, but absolutely agree with travelgourmet above that just because one is &quot;European&quot; does not mean they know everything about every place in Europe, nor necessarily more than an Asian or American, etc. about some things.

I have disagreed a lot with many Americans on lots of threads about tipping, cost of meals, local customs, etc. -- even Americans who live in the exact same city I do. I think it comes from people having different habits, spending levels, etc. But the idea that any American knows more than any European about, saying, tipping in San Francisco is absurb. My mother sure wouldn't, nor my sister who has hardly traveled anywhere.

I've read posts by those who claimed a &quot;mid-level&quot; dinner in Washington DC was around $100, that is the norm here. Well, not in my circles, I've never spent that much on dinner in my life, and routinely dine in DC for maybe $30 (and that isn't some dive). Some other person on the tipping post insisted that in DC you had to tip 20 pct or more, that was the norm here. Again, says who -- I dine out about once a week or more and don't usually tip that much, nor do the people I dine with.

CasaDelCipresso, tipping in restaurants in Ireland has been customary since God was a boy; the normal rate is about 10% (unless there is a service charge explicitly added). I was thinking of restaurants when I said we have a tipping culture.

If you do not tip, or tip less than average, staff might be disappointed, but you will never be confronted as, I gather, you might be in the US or in Venice if you are American.

When I lived, and worked in Dublin 20 years ago Ireland did not have a tipping culture. It came as a shock to me when I waited tables and could not supplement my meager income.

Perhaps this dates me. Perhaps I knew God as a boy? ;)

Tug - tipping certainly was not customary in any of the resaurants I frequented when I lived in Ireland about 7yrs ago either...now...have been back to visit those same spots with local friends and family (most recently a few weeks ago) and they now ALWAYS tip just as I do in the US...you're not dating yourself too much ;-) My husband spent time as a student waiting tables and as a barman in Ireland (sot so long ago)and trust me...tips were not the norm (!)Ireland has changed Very recently!!

tug, I am sorry to say that my own experience goes back further than 20 years.

You might have worked in the wrong place or places.

p.s. Padraig, I was in Venice in the end of March and ate out many meals...and did not leave one tip...and I was treated very well - one thing would have nothing to do with the other...even in Venice. (I was even given the locals discount when I returned to a favorite for a second time during my stay)

NO TIP in Italy.

I have never, ever had anyone even look at me twice for not leaving a tip...I, honeslty, could not imagine that even in Venice.

Casa (I hope you forgive my adopting a familiar tone in calling you House), my comment was an allusion to a report made in another thread that a waiter in Venice told an American that the gratuity was 15%, and followed him out of the restaurant to demand his tip. I agree that tips are not normally expected in Italy. I presume, however, that you speak good Italian and give the impression that you are tuned in to Italian ways. In particular, I agree that being well treated is not governed by the expectation of a tip: it is usually the result of treating the server with respect.

I am intrigued by your husband's and tug's experiences waiting on tables in Ireland (not by his bar experience, because we don't tip bar staff). What sort of places did he work in?

If memory serves..

I worked the edge of St. Stephen's Green, in a place called the Chicago Pizza Pie Factory, and a few other unmemorable places that would now be called gastro-pubs .. mostly south-side.

It was not uncommon at the time to get 1-2 punts for a 4 cover, during a busy nights service. It was certainly not 10%

That makes more sense to me, tug. Tipping in places like that tends to be at a much lower level. People here don't regard them as &quot;proper&quot; restaurants; it's only pizza, not real food. Same with Chinese restaurants.

Hrmm. I was there when this place opened. As I recall, it was one of the few (maybe 2 places) at the time that even did sit-down pizza. You could be expected to pay at least a tenner for your meal, much more than a take-away.

Granted, it was only pizza. It was still set up like a proper restaurant, charging like a proper restaurant, obviously not tipping like one.

Having said that, when I went out with the few bob I had ... most of my friends didn't tip.

I'm happy to learn that Dublin and Ireland have changed and continue to grow :)

Padraig - no clue...his student days in Dublin were before we met ;-) will ask. The local pubs we frequented though were never places we'd have tipped...now though, we would certainly tip in a pub for a meal.

missed the other Venice thread...that's AWFUL!! I would have made it very clear to the staff that I was very aquainted with the way things are done in Italy, thank you very much!! I HATE it when tourists are treated that way! yes...I do speak Italian and perhaps that is why I didn't expereince that sort of thing in Venice....really a shame. Venice tourists (and Rome I think) are treated rather rotten I think.

Speaking of meal sharing: look what the English Posh and the American Katie did:
http://www.celebritymound.com/?p=10552

schuler, you really make the case that splitting a main course is d&eacute;class&eacute;.

schuler,,that was a horrifying read,, LOL thanks.