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-   -   Is Paris Burning? (https://www.fodors.com/community/europe/is-paris-burning-1660968/)

Pepper_von_snoot Dec 7th, 2018 08:54 AM

Can you take a cruise on the Canal St Martin?

Ditto Macross!


Thin

kerouac Dec 7th, 2018 09:05 AM

The only problem with the Canal Saint Martin is that one end of the cruise is the Bassin de l'Arsenal at Bastille. It is well below street level, but if the area is agitated, they might not be able to operate.

The Canauxrama website does not mention any problem. Cruises Canal Saint Martin and Seine in Paris

Pepper_von_snoot Dec 7th, 2018 09:53 AM

The Musee de la Vie Romantique is open tomorrow and it is close to our hotel. Qui, qui, Madame!

Thin

kerouac Dec 7th, 2018 10:11 AM

But that place is only worth about 23 minutes of anybody's time. Better to go up to Montmartre, which will be calm.

AJPeabody Dec 7th, 2018 10:21 AM

How about Cluny? They may even have a noon concert.

Pepper_von_snoot Dec 7th, 2018 11:40 AM

Cluny is closed.

Thin

AJPeabody Dec 7th, 2018 01:55 PM


Originally Posted by Pepper_von_snoot (Post 16836925)
Cluny is closed.

Thin

Bummer. Maybe take Eurostar for a day trip to London!

AJ

PalenQ Dec 7th, 2018 02:09 PM

Versailles? Seine cruises? Sounds like all of Paris is shutdown - how long can that go on? Tourists are cancelling Paris trips in droves I heard on news - many kerouac will have his wish of a less touristed Paris?

Pepper_von_snoot Dec 7th, 2018 09:52 PM

Paris is indeed on lockdown.

Printemps, Galeries Lafayette, and Bon Marche are all closed today, one of the busiest Christmas shopping days of the year.

The Americans may be canceling, but the Chinese are here in droves. They are everywhere.

We think we will head to Cafe Nemours for some vin rouge and croque madame.

I hope we don't get teargassed.😭

Thin

Macross Dec 8th, 2018 12:01 AM

Thin, it is like that all the time, only people I see in line for Gucci, LV, Chanel, etc. I saw two very young girls running up DaddyO's credit card at Repetto. They had bags from every store in GL. The Chinese economy is doing well for a few. They are fabulous looking though, very stylish. I love watching female news personalities. No false eyelashes, very simple but elegant. No one has long nails, all very short and not dressed for a cocktail party. Mika would fit in well.
The crowds are growing with yellow jackets. All calm though. Hoping you find a bit of something open. We might go over to the 14th and find Samuel Beckett's grave at Montparnasse cemetery.

AJPeabody Dec 8th, 2018 04:38 AM

CNN TV in the US is finally showing some Parisian scenes. Today it's showing Yellow Jackets filling a street probably the Champs Elysees getting tear gassed, six deep phalanxes of black-clad security troops, and people burning ripped off plywood store window protectors, while a talking head is reporting all Seine bridges closed and the discovery of "home made bombs." The closing scene was just billowing smoke.

Is Paris really burning?

Macross Dec 8th, 2018 04:57 AM

Back at the apartment, that building they are trying to tear the plywood off is where Joel Robuchon has a restaurant. Very cool grocery, bookstore, wine shop. The drugstore shop. I went and had a haircut and blow dry. All of a sudden ten police cars went by headed somewhere. They had ipads with news on. They are a bit nervous. Many places closed even over here in the 15th. BTW, best shampoo and haircut ever for 29 euros. She had piggy bank for tips and she deserved it.

thibaut Dec 8th, 2018 05:21 AM

News...
Surely if CNN says Paris is burning then Paris burns.

Le Monde says there is not much happening right now, but hey, they are French so they probably spread fake news. That is what I say from the beginning : people - like you Peabody, for good reasons probably, spread news and scare others when there is no need to do so. As for TVs they need to show billowing smoke if they want people to watch them. When 80 000 people (20 000 according to police) make marches all over France against violence towards women and there is not even a car destroyed, my guess is that CNN doesn't talk about it.

Manif of 24 11 2018 according to Le Monde
https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/artic...8001_3224.html

Gilets jaunes today according to Le Monde
https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/live/...4372_3224.html

AJPeabody Dec 8th, 2018 05:47 AM

Thibaut: I am not people like me. I'm afraid you have misinterpreted my position. We all know that tabloid news will find the most extreme scenes to show as representative of an entire situation. They do it for snowstorms, wars, traffic, and, of course, demonstrations in Paris. My point was to tell what we are seeing in a 30 second clip that is repeated four times while the talking head speaks oh so seriously about something where we have no real on-the-ground truth. So I asked for the truth. That's all. Inquiring minds want to know.

AJPeabody Dec 8th, 2018 06:29 AM

OK, CNN is on and just ran a tease: 10 seconds of a "mob" pounding on the windows of a Starbucks. Waiting for the whole story, after the ads for the Virgin Islands, a machine to sanitize "your CPAP," life insurance, then another segment on the Mueller probe, another Mueller segment, another tease of Paris, this time a burning car, an ad for Land Rover, an ad for investment advice, an ad for lactose-free milk, "Smart News" app, co-Q-10, car insurance, cnn's heroes show, i24 news, invent help so I can patent my invention, christian faith publishing, and at last: Paris. 30 seconds showing three small fires, the same plywood pulling clip, some security milling around, then back to Mueller. That's it. All of Paris in 30 seconds of absolutely truthful representative clips. The tease for the news teases a tease as a substitute for news. If the truth shall make you free, what does this do?

kerouac Dec 8th, 2018 06:32 AM

All four of the French news channels are showing non stop fires, tear gas, crowd movements, charging riot police, etc., and yet there are only 8000 demonstrators in the city. Probably fewer than half of them are trashers. So the coverage is not at all fake news, but actually a depiction of how relatively few people can give a vision of total havoc that can impress the world. They have certainly learned all of the lessons of Facebook and Twitter, because President Trump is ecstatic. In Paris, we are used to demonstrations with more than 200,000 people several times a year, and nothing like this ever happens then. In fact, the march routes are lined with food trucks and all of the cafés along the way are filled to overflowing with crowds.

This is something ugly and different, all for the benefit of cameras and scaremongers.

Macross Dec 8th, 2018 10:30 AM

I hated seeing so many places closed today but did see all the police and many protesters. I know the work that went into boarding up and the amount of money lost in all of the stores and restaurants today. We made the best of it and though I did not get to my museum my husband was happy. It is non stop on the French channels. I have one more day and it would not make me cancel or not come to Paris. BUT, what is up with trump and his saying they are yelling we want trump? Crazy

kerouac Dec 8th, 2018 10:59 AM

One thing that would indicate that coverage of these events is a bit off center is that the evening news reported that sales in stores are down "only" 11% in Paris but they are down 50% in the rest of France due to road blockages. But basically all you see is what is happening in Paris because the information is much more visual.

WeisserTee Dec 8th, 2018 11:53 AM

The Chinese are only here almost all the time. The one time they're not is around Chinese New Year. We've been in Paris over Chinese New Year for the past two years; you could roll several bowling balls down the Avenue Montaigne and not touch anybody. The designer stores we passed were almost empty.

kerouac Dec 8th, 2018 12:36 PM

Ah, but if you go to Chinatown in the 13th arrondissement for the New Year's celebrations, you can barely squeeze through the crowds.

Chinese New Year in Paris | Any Port in a Storm

PalenQ Dec 8th, 2018 12:49 PM

But basically all you see is what is happening in Paris because the information is much more visual.>

Seems more violent too - or are they burning cars and trashing buildings and national monuments all over? Why did all the museums close> Because workers couldn't get to work or staff on strike or why?

menachem Dec 8th, 2018 11:44 PM

Meanwhile, yesterday, a huge demo against climate breakdown, also in Paris, 10s of 1000s of people. No media attention.

menachem Dec 8th, 2018 11:44 PM


Originally Posted by PalenQ (Post 16837479)
But basically all you see is what is happening in Paris because the information is much more visual.>

Seems more violent too - or are they burning cars and trashing buildings and national monuments all over? Why did all the museums close> Because workers couldn't get to work or staff on strike or why?

Because of danger to the property and to visitors.

Macross Dec 9th, 2018 01:49 AM

Green vest for the climate. I didn't see any of those but plenty of yellow vest. We are getting ready to go out, headed for the 1st.

kerouac Mar 17th, 2019 05:44 AM

I added new photos to my report of the yellow vest demonstrations. Here is the result of yesterday's protest, starting at reply #40.

Battening down the hatches on the Champs Elysées | Any Port in a Storm

At the same time, there was a much bigger demonstration in another part of Paris about climate change. Totally peaceful.

AJPeabody Mar 17th, 2019 06:24 AM

I hope these demonstrations, which I see on BBC America since the US TV reports are solely about Trump and massacres, remain localized in extent. Our flight tickets to Paris are non-refundable and we are not particularly attracted to the Champs Elysees. Maybe they will burn themselves out by September, although either the BBC or EuroNews reported that the domos include "a thousand professional demonstrators." This is a profession in France? Does it pay well?

Macross Mar 17th, 2019 06:32 AM

I missed France 24 last night but read all this in the daily mail. At least they cover and had some good pictures. My Longchamp store that I shop at. I do like their purses. I am a bit peeved they torched the newsstands It this an evil side group of the yellow vest? The looting is not right. Of course cheeto is saying it all has to do with the Paris accord. He must have heard that on Fox and friends. Glad the green vest were peaceful.

Envierges Mar 17th, 2019 06:39 AM

Just curious. Is your news reporting at all on the above mentiioned climate demonstration at Opera yesterday with crowds estimated between 40,000 and 100,000 depending on the source, where absolutely nothing happened

AJPeabody Mar 17th, 2019 06:50 AM


Originally Posted by Envierges (Post 16889036)
Is your news reporting at all on the above mentiioned climate demonstration at Opera yesterday with crowds estimated between 40,000 and 100,000 depending on the source, where absolutely nothing happened

Not a word. If it bleeds, it leads. If it burns, it earns. If you fear, you hear. Then they run commercials.

kerouac Mar 17th, 2019 06:53 AM

At least it was on the domestic French news but unfortunately not given as much coverage as the Champs Elysées crap.

Macross Mar 17th, 2019 09:23 AM

I am getting fed up with news in general. Why don't they cover the news? I am tired of the hours spent on cheeto. I wanted to know about the boeing max plane. I read online about Frnace keeping the black box, not trusting the US to handle it or Boeing. Nothing reported about that. I wanted to know who won the 6 nations Rugby game. They played the France/Italy game but not the Wales Ireland game. Stupid coverage. I watch BCC as \much as I can and BCC radio does well with Brexit coverage.
Thanks for the pictures K.

StCirq Mar 17th, 2019 09:43 AM

Thanks for this, kerouac. Does make us want to steer clear of Paris, though we hardly ever set foot anywhere near the Champs Elysées...

We are limited here with TV channels, but BBC and AlJazeera are our go-tos.

dlejhunt Mar 18th, 2019 09:14 AM

So sad; seeing the destruction of some of the places that I have shopped in and walked by many times. I want to understand more about this; who is doing this (or, what factions of the GJ are doing this), what are they so angry about, and why don't the police intervene at the first sign of violence?

I will be in Paris in two weeks. I've not been hesitant at all about being in the city until after seeing this weekend's events. We'll stay away from any riots, for sure, but wonder if this will lead to other, unexpected violence in more remote areas of the city. We tend to avoid the touristy spots but there will be some shopping; will have to be smart about that.

In any case, the trip is paid for, so we're going.

kerouac Mar 18th, 2019 09:35 AM

The "problem," if you can call it that, is that the French police have orders to protect lives over property, so they will never shoot looters or vandals. I understand that the policy is different in certain major countries. And every single injury of the demonstrators or even "black bloc" members has been denounced by just about every political party as though the government had unleashed official assassins or hooligans to keep order,. And yes, they also accuse the government of promoting the destruction of property by not stopping the vandals by any means necessary. There may be a sort of contradiction here.

AJPeabody Mar 18th, 2019 10:45 AM

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dlejhunt Mar 18th, 2019 11:39 AM

Ah, the fallacy of inconsistency. Probably not the only logical fallacy inherent in the arguments surrounding this issue. Thank you, Kerouac.

apersuader65 Mar 18th, 2019 11:57 AM


Originally Posted by kerouac (Post 16889637)
The "problem," if you can call it that, is that the French police have orders to protect lives over property, so they will never shoot looters or vandals. I understand that the policy is different in certain major countries. And every single injury of the demonstrators or even "black bloc" members has been denounced by just about every political party as though the government had unleashed official assassins or hooligans to keep order,. And yes, they also accuse the government of promoting the destruction of property by not stopping the vandals by any means necessary. There may be a sort of contradiction here.

Then it seems that the arson cases could have been cases of shots upon the protesters, IMO. You burn a bank at ground floor where numerous regular citzen's apartments are above, you're tantamount to committing attempted murder.

kerouac Mar 18th, 2019 12:09 PM

There was indeed some fake news on social media claiming that the burning of Fouquet's was caused by police grenades. Perhaps you have some more specific documented information that you would like to share with us.

PalenQ Mar 18th, 2019 01:14 PM

Does not matter whose grenades hit Fouquet's IMO - the protesters caused them to be used and Fouquet's not being able to board the shop up, etc. But more likely that demonstrators caused it - attacking symbol of rich people. Why would police being carrying life grenades - that was not a real war just a bunch of protesters who aim was to wreak havoc. Anarchists seem to have taken over the Parisian weekend battles.

kerouac Mar 18th, 2019 02:08 PM

Yes, the most annoying thing is that France is a country with a population of 67,000,000 and the yellow vest protestors have numbered about 30,000 in recent weeks (down from an original total of about 200,000 at the beginning). Embedded in the 30,000 there are about 1,500 anarchists who are getting all of the attention, of which far too few being arrested.. It has been announced that starting next week, the police are going to use new methods... Wait and see.


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