kimberly

I've been thinking of planning a trip via train through the South of France to Italy and I've been finding in several Tour Guides usually under the title "Annoyances" that there is blatant racism in most of Southern France. The reason I ask is that I'm an African-American female who will most likely be traveling alone or with friend possibly and I don't think I want to even venture there if I'm going to run into problems...Anyone know???

Erica

I don't know a/b specific places in France or Italy that would be hostile to African-Americans or any other persons of color, but I do know of the racist and facist National Front, a (dis)organization headed by one notorious Jean-Marie Le Pen. I don't know how strong it is, but for a while in the 90s there was a strong anti-immigrant sentiment in and around France (their slogan incidentally is "France for the French"). Can't speak to Italy. I've also heard that David Duke pledged financial assistance to Le Pen. But again, I don't know how much a force Le Pen in the country or specific regions of France. We're going to Paris next month, and everything I've heard a/b how African-Americans are treated was positive. I'm sure nothing worse than what you may have encountered before but it would be nice if we could take a vacation, however brief, from racism.

kimberly

Thanks, Erica! I've been to Paris several times and I must say I had a great time. I actually don't think about racism when I travel it's just sparked my curiousity when I was reading about the South of France in several unrelated tour guides and the overall for "annoyances" was blatant racism i.e. if you show up at a restaurant having made a reservation and you are a person of color the reservation mysteriously disappears and they have no tables...As an avid traveler I'm a keen reader on world events and I'm very aware of the Le Pen's NF Party. The guides say it's very concentrated in the southern region...

Christina

I can't answer this question definitely except to say that yes, there is more racism in the Provence-Cote d'Azur region, but the Alsace region has seen a tremendous increase in support for Le Pen and the FN party, there is as strong support in Alsace now as in the Provence region, in terms of elected officials (and Provence was the strongest area of his support, I believe). However, as in many countries in Europe, this isn't exactly racism in the traditional sense (if there is such a thing) of disliking African-heritage people in principle just for that reason; it is really an immigration/social benefits/unemploymebnt/taxes etc issue. So, I don't think you will have a big problem given you do not live there and will be a tourist and they will surely know that. They dislike immigrants coming into France and staying and (especially children born there) becoming French citizens; the most racism I've heard of is against Algerians/Arab/Muslim immigrants, actually, not blacks (although there are plenty of immigrants from Francophone Africa, also). Thus, I suspect as an African-American tourist you will not experience what these reports are talking about. It could be worse than that, my gut feeling is it's not, but I can't say for sure. Personally, given that environment (and Nice has always been a hotbed of conservatism in France), I would probably book larger more impersonal hotels than very small family-owned ones, just to be on the safer side. As far as your comments on the restaurant reservations, I can't say as I don't eat in those class of restaurants anyway, much; for example, there is a large area of open-air cafes that set up on the plaza in the middle of Avignon at night, you can walk around, peruse the menus, stop where it looks good--and I can't quite picture any of those waiters refusing to seat you because of your color when you can see empty tables right there and everybody is watching. However, I will admit I do not recall seeing a lot of blacks in Provence. Tina Turner lives down there, though, and they love her (I know that's not much of an example). I don't know about attitudes in Italy except some Italian romeo trying to come on to me once made some remark about "colored people" for no reason and the conversation wasn't even on that topic (you know how people can be); I don't even recall why he was bringing that subject up, but I remember he thought colored was the au courant term in the US. They will certainly not be lovey-dovey and friendly towards you wherever you are in France, anyway, but that's the way they are towards everyone; they don't even like other French people much.

Jean Valjean

For what it's worth...

I was there a couple of months ago (Avignon, Aix-en-Provence, Orange, etc), and have to say that it is an extremely beautiful place, right out of a Van Gogh painting (as corny as that may sound).

While certainly not as cosmopolitan as Paris or London, we saw people from all walks of life and of various ethnic groups. Nobody seemed to bother anybody else.

About Front National, for what I hear they are nowhere as strong as they used to be, and in any case, what they were (are) against of is foreigners WORKING in France...

Joel

Kimberly, you have nothing at all to worry about. I lived there in France for a number of years in the 90's and followed their problems with racism closely.
Racism is not directed at African-Americans at all that I ever saw. There is a goodly population of blacks there (I can't call them African-Americans as they aren't American)and they are intertwined into all social strata: college students, professionals, etc. There appear to be few ethnic practices that distinguish them from whites (no distinctive black style of dress, for example). I saw many interracial couples in which either the man or the woman was apt to be black. In short, France was colorless for blacks in every instance that I saw.
However, for North Africans and Portuguese the intolerance is open. For example, there was an issue in Marseille in which a school girl covered her head per her religious beliefs. The school had a rule against hats and was insensitive to her preferences. Certainly there have been clashes, but at the point that I returned to the States, there had not been murders, etc., that were clearly racial to my recollection. Le Pen, as another poster mentioned, is the "Imperial Wizard a la France", so to speak. France will work its way out of this situation in time. I don't feel that they are a racist nation. The current racism comes out of a French policy mid to late 20th Century to bring in lots of North African and Portuguese workers. Kind of like we did with migrant workers. They stayed and it got so they were taking jobs from caucasian, natural-born Frenchmen. That seems to have started it.
In your case, being black, expect no behavior at all that would suggest you were any different than the whitest French man or woman around.

Joel

Kimberly, in my post just before this one, I referred to racism directed at North Africans. These are not black Africans, they are Moroccans and Algerians who have a distinctive color and facial structure, but seem generally shorter and are not black at all.

A Regular

The overlap between the political and travel-related implications of this question is interesting. It is usually answered along the lines of "Don't worry -- as long as they know you're an American tourist, you'll be okay." That's probably true. Then it gets generalized into "That means there's really no racism." That's not true. The National Front, though politically in disarray, certainly has measurable support (at one point, it had at least one seat in every regional assembly). The statements of its leaders and candidates have been explicitly racist. Its supporters are not opposed to "foreigners," but only to certain types of foreigners, and it's quite clear which types that means. If I were Kimberly, I'd go, but I wouldn't make the assumption that everybody I met couldn't possibly be a racist, any more than I'd make that assumption elsewhere.

Miane

My viewpoint as a French native:
The extreme right is indeed strong in Southern France but more racist towards the arab population. I live in the U.S. and can guarantee you that racism in France is less obvious than here --where the PC movement is more B.S. than actual fact. Races are more mixed there, which always strikes my American husband --and what strikes me in the U.S. is that races don't really mingle. I also have Afro-American friends who "escaped" to Europe in search of a better, color-free life. IN SUMMARY: I don't think racism should be an issue in your trip.

Joel

I wish I could have said it as well as Miane just did regarding American racism as well as French. I will add that Kimberly will experience more racism on an average day in any American city than she will in France.

kimberly

Wow!!!! Thank you all very much for your comments and wonderful insight. As I said before I don't make it a point to think of racism as I was brought up (a military brat) by parents (one from the deep south!) who see everyone equal regardless of race, ethnicity, creed, etc... I was just curious as the overall themes of the travel books had the same entry over and over about racism in Southern France. I must say it sparked my curiousity and for the first time as a traveler thought - hold up for a sec and let's analyze this. I traveled to Paris a few times and just assumed the rest of France had the same pulse being that I was well treated in Paris. I think one of you mentioned that they will know I'm an American and I can CONFIRM that one!!! Whether it's Paris, London, Amsterdam, Edinburgh...every person of African descent I ran into has picked this up before I said a word...I find it rather amusing...could it be I'm from Los Angeles with dress to match (I work at a record company) giving that vibe off??? Hahahahha! Anyhow, thank you for being very forward and taking the time to answer my question. It has been rather educational and it is something I will share with my other friends who love to discuss travelling and politics!

Erica

Wow, lots of thoughtful answers to this thread. I wish I hadn't been so busy or I would have responded much sooner. I do wonder (rather than worry) how we'll be received, but of course, I'd probably have more to worry a/b here at home unfortunately. Anyway, we're really excited a/b our upcoming to trip to Amsterdam and Paris on Saturday and would love to tell you a/b our trip when we return! I do hope you're still planning your trip to Italy and South of France (would LOVE to see the South of France!) and let us know what your experiences are.

FE

Please, do not worry about it. I had the best time of my life in the south of France. I am African-American and was even the only black person in my class of excahnge students in the university. I always felt welcome and never once did any hint of racism ever come my way. I even keep in touch with many of those guys and girls years after the visit. Have a good time and enjoy the sights.

fran

My European mother told me she had never seen a person of African descent in her entire life until some of the American soldiers who arrived to help liberate Europe during WW2. The positive and grateful feeling she had toward them then still exists to this day. Bet you'll find others with her attitude in France too.

Erica

FE, are there any experiences you'd like to share from your time in the South of France? It just seems the most romantic, most beautiful place...or have movies done too good a job of convincing me of that?!!

tcc

I can only talk for Paris, which I have come to be obsessed with getting back to (and hopefully I will in June!). My obsession goes to show what a good time I had while there.

FE- I'd love to hear about your experiences in the South of France as well! Do tell.

Erica- how was your time in Paris?

Jo

Another political (and a little travel) response

I live in Idaho which has a reputation for being racist and white supremist. Furthermore, I live in Northern Idaho near the headquarters of Richard Butler the leader of a Neo-Nazi group. It is difficult for many of us to bear the stigma of such a reputation when we do not embrace racist beliefs. Simply because racists or other intolerant people live here does not make all the people of our region or state racist. When Richard Butler's group parades in downtown Coeur'd Alene, the parade participants are miniscule in comparison to the people who protest the group's beliefs. However, I have seen on the US forum cautions about not going to North Idaho because of it's racist reputation. Because of fear,I think many folks miss opportunities to interact with people of other cultures and therefore miss opportunities to build bridges and understanding--that's one of the reasons I travel.
(here's the travel part) I hope people will come to visit our beautiful state, float the rivers, hike in the mountains, explore our lava flows and enjoy visiting with the residents because they want the experience. I hope they will see that the majority of us are good people who may have not had the opportunity to interact with folks from other cultures, races or religions.

Racism and discrimination exist. My African-American and Latino nieces and nephews face it daily in the cities and towns where they live. It seems to depend on where we are emotionally and mentally that allows us to deal with it (positively or negatively) or avoid it. If there is not a risk of facing physical harm and you take an adventurous outlook, why should you forfeit a trip through the South of France because it holds a pocket of racists? Go--have a great time!

Marisa

I was thinking about asking that exact same question about Nice. I study French and Art History and I was thinking about traveling in that region. I am also African-American and even though I'm very aware of much of the racism towards North Africans (who are not black), most of the American blacks that I've met said they never experienced that. Even if there was some hostility, the fact that they were "American" seemed to excempt them from much of the mistreatment. I too, was apprehensive about travelling and people judging me because I am a black woman. I still questiong that sometimes, you guys have made me more comfortable. At one point, I do intend to "stay" or "at least have a home" in another country but I would have accumulated my wealth in The States before....so "I won't be taking "away jobs from citizens" as many say here (Houston,Texas).

Janice

Daer Kimberly,
Another voice to encourage you to travel and not be concerned about racism. I'm white, my significant other is black, (and about 350 lbs.) and we've never encountered any abuse, mistreatment, or even funny looks in France or Italy. We get more grief in an hour in Chicago than we would in a month in Europe. Just go, enjoy and be your own beautiful self!

Erica

Hi Kimberly, tcc and everyone -- we're back aft spending 10 wonderful days in Europe. First stop, Amsterdam.

Steeped in history and wealth, yet laid back, we had a ball there. Venice gets all the credit for canals, but I thought Amsterdam's were quite romantic, along w/ the small side streets. And yes, we had a lot of Heineckens (sp?) there. It was so funny to see Budweiser as an imported beer on the menus...why bother?!?! The museums are WONDERFUL!! And there were always people hangin' out in Rembrantplein. Great vibe, hated to leave. (more)