Rosie17

After graduation, a group of 4-5 friends and I (totaling 5, possibly 6) would like to take a three week trip to Europe. We would like to divide up our time in the British Isles, as well as Italy and France. There are about 4 girls going, one who will be 17 and all the others 18, and two guys, both whom will be 18. Of all the potential 6, 3 will be entering their sophomore year of college and 3 their freshman year of college. Three of us will have had extensive travel experience by that time, especially in Europe, and I especially in Italy and France, however never without the accompaniment of an "adult" (as we will technically be legal adults, but you know what I mean....). Thus far, the responses we've all collected from our parents have been generally positive, and the parents who have traveled to Europe before think this is a fabulous, educational, and once-in-a-lifetime oppurtunity, while those who have never been overseas are more concerned. I should note that every teen in this group is very responsible, and there isn't a chance of any one of us ending up in pubs/bars, spending time with strangers, sharing taxis (yes, everyone wants to know if I've seen "Taken"...). We've also agreed to set rules for ourselves, to be further protected, such as a curfew no later than 10 and never splitting into groups smaller than 3 nor without a guy's company. Despite all of these safety precautions, I've still been scared out of my wits because of stories I've heard, or the looks I get from some adults when I present the idea (namely, my teachers).

For those of you who have traveled extensively before, and for those of you who know Europe inside and out, what are your opinions on this? We are from The States so this will be very far from home. Any advice, experience, or feedback would be GREATLY appreciated. Thank you!

zeppole

Could you be more specific about what stories you've heard (and from whom) that have scared you?

alanRow

Yes, no, perhaps. Only you will know. If they were European then it would be definitely be the "yes" column and they wouldn't even think of asking the question.

The one certainty is that the "rules" you are imposing will last about 5 minutes from arrival in Europe

zeppole

PS: Where are you going specifically in these countries and how are you planning to travel between them?


Also you should bear in mind, as you get responses here, that many people didn't start traveling abroad until they were in the 50s and 60s. So even though they have visited Europe many times, they don't have any experience of what it is like to be a 17-year-old American female.

Hopefully, people will tell you when they answer if they have any personal experience of being in your situation. I'm a female who first went abroad when I was 18, to the Middle East. I had several negative experiences solely due to my being female and young, and encountered some of the same in my 20s when I went to London and Paris. But despite their being negative experiences, I feel any prepared teen could handle them and somebody more alert than I was could have easily avoided them. It sounds like you are putting more thought into your safety than I did at that age.

zeppole

Rosie17,

AlanRow makes a good point: Would your group be so worried if you were planning a trip to somewhere else in the US or Canada? Do any of you speak French or Italian.

I don't think AlanRow is right to be "certain" you won't stick to your own rules. I'm not sure he even has children. But more importantly, he doesn't know any of you. All intelligent people make rules regarding their own safety when they travel. They only drop them if they see there is no need for them. I still stick to many self-imposed rules of travel, because you do need them!

zeppole

(Also, a lot of people on this board can be insulting and condescending to young people, and maybe especially young Americans, so good luck! It's your first test.)

rosemaryoz

I cannot see why you think you won't be safe to be honest! You all sound like you're going to be incredibly cautious, even if you only stick to half those rules. Places in Europe and the UK are just like any other cities - you just need to use common sense, keep your wits about you, and look out for each other. And just respect the fact that you are experiencing a different culture, and facing different language challenges. I've seen really boorish, disrepectful behaviour from older people than you - and that's embarrassing. As long as you don't lapse into "Loudmouth Idiots on Tour", you'll be fine. In fact I suspect you'll benefit enormously from the experience.

clausar

zeppole
I went to Germany and later to Austria to study when i was 18.
I had the chance to travel extensively to all of Europe, as i was based in the middle of it, and never had a negative experience.. maybe because i was a guy?
I traveled both with friends and alone without any problems, but i must say i was more interested in seeing as much as possible, than i was in nightlife and partying.. which i think nowadays might be different... ( even though i am not a dinosaur...)

tarquin

I was visited last Summer by two 17-year-old Canadian boys who travelled extensively around the UK for two weeks. Their stay with us was the last leg of their trip and they had no negative experiences to report. Both had visited Europe previously with their parents, but we were very impressed by their trip planning, most transport being by bus.

My concern is that your group is rather large, but other than that, I can't see what there is to worry about. I came to England on my own at 19 and travel was far less easy then with no internet, mobile phones etc.

clausar

tarquin, that;s a good point i have forgotten... when i was 18, there was no internet, or mobile phones....
Things are so much easier now !!!!

rosemaryoz

Rosie17, if you're a bit nervous about striking out on your own in the bigger cities, investigate the London Walks, or Paris Walks, or Rome Walks small-group guided tour websites. Each one is different, but they tend to offer good-value short walking tours which help familiarise you with the city, and take you directly to the points of interest you're seeking (be it art, history, literature, foodie stuff etc). You should get student discounts too.

Frances

What is it you fear? The answer to this will help me tell you what I think.( and I am Welsh and first travelled without an adult in Europe at 19). It is incredibly common for young people to do this in their holidays and the problem British parents face is not should they go but at what age can they safely go.

Gordon_R

Rosie - if I can through in a more European perspective on this. Over here it's virtually a right of passage for college students to travel (usually back-packing) around other countries on there own or with a group of mates. I did several solo trips from the UK around Europe, first at 19 and then at age 20. Never had a real problem and it opened my eyes to the big wide world and all its possibilities. 25 years down the line, I've visited almost 50 countries and have learned so much more about the world and its diversity than I could possibly have imagined.

I don't want to sound patronising, but your statement "<i>...there isn't a chance of any one of us ending up in pubs/bars, spending time with strangers, sharing taxis...</i>" did make me smile. While I'm certainly not suggesting you go round Europe on an alchohol-fuelled bender, if you are 18 you can drink legally. Meeting other travellers, getting a bit lost trying to find your hostel, staying up all night putting the world to right and having a few beers in a pub are all normal "adventures" that students have, and I would argue healthy steps to becoming an independent and world-wise adult.

I expect the usual crowd of US "helicoptor parents" will chime in now flaming me, and telling you that it's "unsafe" and "irresponsible" to travel on your own at your age. They are wrong so ignore them. Statistically, you'll be far safer travelling around Europe than you are attending your college in the US.

Gordon_R

Frances - we posted at the same time !

zeppole

clausar,

Yes, being a guy makes a huge difference. All my negative experiences involved being followed or harassed by men, sometimes requiring my needing to get help to be safe. I was an extremely adventurous, trusting traveler, who didn't understand that there were some places I shouldn't walk alone, etc.

I think it is different for young Europeans traveling, who still have a sense of a belonging and confidence outside their own specific countries.

But some people on this board really seem clueless that attractive young women attract a lot of attention, not all of it wholesome. And travelers give off certain signals that they are not in their own country, which can make them targets in a special way. There is just this constant rah-rah-ideology that travel is the end-all-be-all of existence, it is the perfect-state-of-being. Teenagers sound more sensible when they talk.

I don't think Rose17 is clueless, but I am curious why, after many reassurances, she is still nervous. I wonder what stories she has heard and from whom. I think it wrong just to tell people "Don't think about what you are thinking about!" -- Why not find out what she is thinking?

tarquin

Zeppole, I too am an American female, and wasn't noticeably unattractive at the time! Unless this group is extraordinarily immature, I can't imagine serious problems. But we haven't heard from the poster for some time.

zeppole

Gordon_R,

If you don't want to sound patronising to a young person being candid about their fears, why post you find their considerations of behaving responsibly and maturely amusing?

The first time I went to the UK in my 20s I found it tedious that for so many people life seemed to revolve around the opening hour of the pub. It's true that a lot of American teens don't drink but I've yet to notice that's a fault. And I'm not a helicopter parent. I just don't think youth drinking in Britain is all that attractive.

But I do agree that this group is safer in Europe than the US.

zeppole

tarquin,

As I said in my post, I did many things as a younger traveler that I had to learn through bad experience not to do, like walking around isolated places, talking to strangers that I should not have trusted. I'm also a very tall female, and when I was young, I wore my hair quite long. I was obviously not a local in the places I was traveling, so I attracted a lot of attention.

I'll also add that when I travel about Italy today, I can still see situations where tourist girls are followed by Italian boys and sometimes men just because they are tourist girls. Partly their is history of hope -- some American girls and northern European girls come to Italy looking for Italian boys -- but also some of the guys plainly have found it easy to take advantage of tourist girls, for lots of reasons. Most of this isn't sinister, just guys looking to get lucky, but some of it can be obnoxious. I've seen the same in Spain and Greece (sorry Clausar!)

zeppole

PS clausar,

This conversation has reminded me -- unexpectedly -- of being very young and in Athens and being followed and finally cornered by an extremely short Greek man who kept telling me he owned ships, lots of ships, and that he wanted to marry a tall woman! I still remember his name -- Tycho -- and how he kept showing me the several diamond rings he wore, to prove to me he was rich. It wasn't that hard to get away from him -- and when I talk about my negative experiences, they were much more serious than this -- but I haven't though of this guy in decades! If he'd been taller, maybe I would have enjoyed owning a Greek shipping company.

Ackislander

You will be fine.
Guys hit on girls. Guys hit on guys.
Sketchy old men hit on girls. Sketchy old men hit on guys.
If you haven't dealt with it, you soon will. The college students certainly will have dealt with it.

A couple of days after graduation from high school, our then 17 year old son got on the plane with his backpack and flew to Scotland, where he walked the West Highland Way the 120 miles or so from Glasgow to Ft William. He started alone but soon met other young people and hiked with them. He got the train back to Glasgow and on to Edinburgh all by himself.

You will be fine.