<i>I don't think AlanRow is right to be "certain" you won't stick to your own rules.</i>

6 people, footloose and fancy free for the first time in foreign climes where they can legally drink and stay out until whatever time they want. And there are rules about 10:00pm curfews. How long do you really think that rule will last especially given that in much of Europe (even the UK) 10:00pm is early even for things like cinema & theatre.

<< I've still been scared out of my wits because of stories I've heard >>

If you're that scared then stay home. You've already traveled and you're an adult. What are the stories you've heard and why are you so scared.

4 countries in 3 weeks is too much traveling around.

Everyone is agreeing to a 10:00 curfew at 17 and 18 years old? That is not realistic.

I first went to Europe alone at 20 and didn't have the benefit of the internet and all the travel knowledge that is available today.

european kids travel in europe all the time. they go to school, uni, visit friends, go to theatres, and even pubs. they also stay out after 10pm, and they drink. The vast majority survive and even benefit from the experience.

I'm not disregarding your fears, but trying to get them in perspective. you sound like tremendously mature and sensible young people who should have a wonderful and safe time, even if you only keep to half of your rules. [do forget about the 10pm one, you'll miss out on a lot if you are all indoors by then]

of course your parents will worry [i have a 24 year old daughter who is presently touring New Zealand in a motorhome, before heading off for Bali, so you can't tell me anything about that] but they will worry whatever you do.

Get planning and have a great time.

I think adrienne is wrong.

I won't be surprised if Rosie never comes back to this therad, but I am surprised that adults won't engage with her seriously. I think she has nothing to fear, given her thoughtfulness, but even when adults I know express their fears about something, I ask them what they are thinking.

Sometimes people don't know why they are afraid until you ask them about it. Rosie has heard stories that have scared her. She has been honest in describing her feelings -- and the responses she gets on Fodor's are: "Your feelings have no value, we dismiss them, we don't believe what you say you are gong to do, you've made us impatient, and we know what reality is so end of conversation."

Gee. Nice bunch of people.

What is Taken?
I'm not sure how a group of teens can travel alone?

Basically you should have few problems. If you had no problems you needn't come. The trick is to make sure tht the bad ones are only a bit bad and the good ones are fantastic.

annhg,

The poster is not European. It was only her misfortune to post at a moment when Europeans are awake and Americans are asleep, and get responses from people who have no experience traveling as young Americans in Europe.

There is a difference between Europeans traveling around Europe or someone from the UK going to New Zealand and Americans traveling around Europe. I don't think it is a difference that should make Rosie cancel her trip. I just think it is a difference Europeans responding to her thread should begin to learn about.

Glad you asked, bilbaoburger. I don't know what "Taken" is either.

<< I think adrienne is wrong. >>

Gee - no kidding zeppole. You've been thinking I'm wrong since you joined fodors!

If someone is "scared out of their wits" to drive a car they should not be driving. If someone is "scared out of their wits" to travel then they should not travel, etc. She is not going to be an asset to the group. Being scared out of your wits is not simply pre-travel anxiety. It goes way beyond that. When you're that scared you cannot make decisions that keep you safe.

zeppole - You think you know what everyone is thinking and saying and everyone but yourself is wrong about everything. As for claiming that people on this board are condescending to young adults look at yourself first - you are the queen of condescension!!

I don't know why people in this thread are assuming that the invention of the internet means people can worry less when they travel.

Perhaps Rosie has been frightened by stories she read on the internet.

Or maybe Rosie is nervous about traveling to Europe because she got the impression somewhere that in Europe, if you are a young American woman and you ask local adults for help, they won't take your concerns seriously.

bilbo - "Taken" is a Liam Nielsen film in which two american girls manage to get themselves kidnapped as an excuse for Mr. N to exercise his derring do and rescue them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taken_(film)

if one takes it as being anything like real life, yes it could be scary. but the OP wouldn't be daft enough to do that, as she is clearly a sensible girl.

Zeppole - if you read the rest of what i wrote, she is also going to Bali [and Japan, Fidji, Thailand and China; ] NZ is the easy bit.

we are not being patronising to Rosie and her confreres, we are trying to provide a bit of perspective, encouraging to put her fears aside and jump in!

adrienne,

I am one of the few people in this thread who asked Rosie what she was thinking. And someone who is "scared out their wits to drive" doesn't have to remain that way. They can be shown what they are scared of either isn't reality or can be handled by them. So once again, you are wrong.


Something else that is skewing this thread is the claim that all European youth are teen travelers. They aren't. It really isn't the norm for Italian girls to travel abroad (many never leave their own region.) I think the UK habit of traveling to other countries frequently, even from an early age, isn't the norm for much of the rest of Europe.

A teenage Italian girl traveling to the US would need a lot of instruction about how to dress and behave to avoid difficulty and even danger.

I have no experience of being American or female, which probably means my answers are invalid in the eyes of some.

I have spent time studying in Italy with largish groups of young Americans of the age of the OP. They seemed to get on very well, frequently making trips all around Europe. They also quickly adopted the behaviour of Europeans of the same age group - they partied, stayed out until the early hours, and drank in clubs and bars.

actually, willit, that's quite a good idea. if they are worried about being "at large" in Italy or France, they could sign up for a language course, and have a bit of adventure in a slightly more controlled setting.

Lots of drama about nothing.

Many European youngsters travel a lot on their own from age 16 on. And especially at age 18. And often in small groups with friends. I understand that it may sound outrageous or adventurous to someone not used to it. But it still remains common.
And, by the way, when I see the hordes of Italian youngsters of both sexes crowding Munich all year long (and getting hammered beyond belief at the beer gardens in summer and for Oktoberfest), I have my doubts that the 18-20yo Italian girls stay home all the time. Maybe they travel less than others, but still it's nothing out of the norm.

From a technical point, things are slightly easier if all in one group are adults. The single 17yo can become a problem at doors of discos and such. Probably a non issue for OP's group.

All of OP's fears are unfounded or blown out of proportion, and it makes no sense not to address them as such.

If a group of youngsters is visiting London and seems afraid of pubs, I wonder what their image of a pub is.
Fact is, you can have any kind of non-alcoholic beverage at a London pub and still enjoy the atmosphere. Why you should not sample one pint of the famous English brews is beyond me, but it's a free country and noone will give a fiddler's fart if you have three pints or three cokes.

With a group of 6 people, you will need two taxis anyway. So I don't see how this "sharing fear" needs any attention. Maybe the taste in movies needs some adjustment, but you still can watch Hostel and discuss the possibilities of becoming an unvoluntarily sex slave and organ donor from a cab ride from Eiffel tower to the Marais.

If you had "extensive travel experience" you would probably assume that there is a bigger danger of getting pickpocketed on the Paris metro at 9am than getting hit over the head at midnight in the bustling Quartier Latin.

A 10pm curfew will probably make you feel a bit isolated, as most 18yo's hardly start the night before that. But as OP plans not to talk to strangers, I assume they have no interest in meeting peers of their own age group as well.

By the way, I find the idea of adults sending themselves to bed at 10pm in a city like Paris or London somewhat odd. Responsible adult behavior does not mean that you live your grandma's rules for 12yo's till you are 35. But again, you are adults and you can go to bed at 6pm if you wish - I just don't see how that adds to safety.

So instead of feasting on OP's highly hypothetical fears it would be more useful to steer her interest towards more relevant items, like where to stay, what specific (!) neighborhoods to avoid, how to take advantage of student discounts, where to meet same aged locals, and so on.

If this is all too much, and you still think that Europe is too dangerous and populated by stalking testosterone-fueled men, and ruled by excessive binge drinking, you should go the safe way and consider spring break in Daytona Beach as a more responsible alternative.

Otherwise, be welcome, bring your common sense, and have fun.

I first traveled to Europe with a group of women friends many years ago. We were all 20 or so at the time and there were between three and six of us traveling together at different points of this trip.

Thinking back on this trip, we were mostly quite careful and safety-conscious. We did get hassled some by men but never in situations where we felt threatened as opposed to annoyed.

We mostly went to bed by 10 (we stayed often in hostels which had curfews and were out sightseeing for long days, so tired after dinner). We almost never went out to bars/pubs although I know we went to the Hofbrauhaus one evening. We really didn't drink much, mostly because we were being very careful with our money. (In this era we had all been able to drink legally in at least some U.S. states since age 18 and didn't see being able to drink in Europe as a big deal)

I do think being able to be in touch via the internet and cell phone would have been comforting to our parents.

Your rules sound more strict than the ones we observed (obviously we could not have gone anywhere if we had to be in a group with a guy, and I don't think that rule is necessary). I think you should be fine.

You don't say whether you are reserving lodging before you leave. It wasn't necessary when we were traveling, but we did arrive late in some cities which is something I would definitely NOT recommend

We had a wonderful trip. I had dreamed of going to Europe for years and have been traveling there whenever possible ever since.

Hey everyone, Rosie posted at 3:49 am and will probable sleep till noon! That's why she hasn't been back :D let's have some more good info for her when she wakes up!

Rosie - your sound like you have a good plan with some good rules which you will refine as you plan and travel. Keep some such as staying in groups, maybe with a guy. Some will probably be adjusted, such as the curfew. They are not set in stone; they are just your beginning thoughts, as we all have when starting to plan. You might consider that talking to strangers while in a group wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea, for instance. After all, part of traveling is meeting people and learning about their culture.

The fact that many adults you have talked to are happy for you tell me that you can handle this trip. If you had said that most tried to talk you out of it, then I might think you were not ready for a trip of this magnitude. We hope you will share some of the things that have made you nervous. At the very least, we can tell you if you do need to watch out for them and give you tips on how to avoid them. Or, they may be things you don't need to worry about. We'll tell yu that too.

There are always going to be people who tell you not to go. My mother in law, who has traveled a lot in her day and loved it, usually gets worried when I announce our travel plans to Europe. She just doesn't understand why we want to travel. Would I let that alter my plans? No way!

I'm from the States, by the way, and would be thrilled if my kids wanted to travel like this. I spent my junior year of college in Scotland and did some good traveling (without Internet or cell phones ;) ), either alone, with one friend or in a small group while there. I didn't take all the precautions (but should have) then that you are now and was just fine with hardly any problems. The worst one was sleeping in a different train car the second night of a two night trip to avoid some noisy cabin mates and ending up in Austria instead of Italy, but we hopped onto another train and got there no problem. I didn't know that different train cars have different destinations and learned the hard way, although it certainly makes for a good story now. That was the only "major" problem I ever had, it is a part of who I am, and now you can avoid it! I never had any safety issues.

If you can survive Fodors, you can easily survive a trip to Europe!

Since the question's been asked so many times, I've essentially been told that us girls have a high chance of being kidnapped... It sounds unreasonable to me with our safety precautions... But still, I respect that teens are ignorant in comparison to adults on a lot of topics, so I don't just want to assume that I'm right based on gut. I've also been told by two of my teachers, both whom I respect immensely, that neither of them would EVER allow their daughter to take a trip like this, because of how "dangerous our world is today," and, "sure you're parents said yes now, but wait until later on when they realize what they've agreed to..." I suppose that even though they haven't been too specific as to the dangers, I'm just nervous about being that teen who thought she could do everything right, like many do, and then threw myself into a terrible situation! I do my best to respect the opinion of my authorities, but it's been difficult when a dream oppurtunity such as this one has come up and is so close at hand!

Also, travel between countries will probably be done by plane from Ireland -> Scotland (maybe a ferry, too, we haven't looked much into that),then plane from Scotland -> France, train from France -> Italy, and then multiple trains throughout Italy, unless someone has another suggestion...

Thank you for all of these responses... They are much appreciated!

<<Also you should bear in mind, as you get responses here, that many people didn't start traveling abroad until they were in the 50s and 60s. So even though they have visited Europe many times, they don't have any experience of what it is like to be a 17-year-old American female.>>

As you can probably tell simply by the sheer number of times zeppole feels compelled to respond to a single, clear post, she's both obsessive and wrong on just about every count. She has NO idea what the personal characteristics are of anyone who posts on this board (how could she? it's an anonymous internet board). Disregard her posts - they are full of venom and self-importance, and suggest an unhealthy reliance on limoncello.

To the OP, you are clearly a thoughtful young person who has made a sensible travel plan. And you will certainly be a lot safer in Europe than you would be, for example, in the large metropolitan area I live in in the USA. You're going to have to get out there in the big wide world on your own at some point, and you're old enough to do it now.

You'll no doubt automatically sense if you're in a situation that's got the potential to harm you, and you've thought through the safeguards in advance (maybe too thoroughly - I would never have limited myself to a 10 pm curfew at your age in Europe, nor insisted on having a guy with me at all times, but if that's your comfort zone, good for you). You'll be fine. My daughter made several trips to Europe from the time she was 16 until now, oftentimes traveling on her own from the USA to a fairly remote place in both France and Italy by plane and train and then traveling with 1-4 other similar-age companions. She did fine. Granted, she had foreign language skills and had male friends who were rugby players, but still. I'm sure they let loose a bit in big cities in Europe, but they always came away unscathed. You will too.

Have a wonderful trip and don't worry about the naysayers. Young people travel to and around Europe every single day, and very, very few come to any harm at all.

You have a minuscule chance of being kidnapped. Even if you are the child of a billionaire the chance in negligible.

I think you will have a wonderful time with your group, though I suspect you will have to quickly become a bit flexible over your rules to avoid the group falling out.


You should consider whether 17 year old needs to have one of the 18 year olds have the power to make decision over them in case of an accident or something - waiting for parental consent could be too late.

You are young, relax, enjoy a wonderful holiday. Get a little drunk maybe too - it's legal you know - at least for the 18 year olds in most countries (and the 17 yr old in some like the Netherlands). Push your boundaries a little. You won't regret it when you are older. Make some great group memories and have a ball!