shootingrubber

Hello,

I am in the very early planning stages for our trip to Europe next summer. We will be going for just under 6 weeks. The flights will be booked, as we found a great deal, very soon. We will fly into Athens on April 26, 2013, and fly out of Paris on June 7, 2013.

Anyways, here is my tentative, early stage itinerary so far, and I would like some critiquing on it.

Athens
April 26 - 28

Santorini
April 29 - May 1

Dublin
May 2 - 5

London
May 6 - 12

Amsterdam
May 13 - 16

Berlin
May 17 - 18

Munich
May 19 - 22

Vienna
May 23 - 26

Salzburg
May 27 - May 29

Switzerland (not sure which places yet)
May 30 - June 4

Paris
June 5 - 7

Just FYI, I have been to Paris before many times, but I like to go back every year, which is why I have scheduled such little time there.

Anyways, let me know what you guys think, and what I should change, but those are a general overview of the places we want to visit during our time there.

brotherleelove2004

I suggest you go to Santorini straightaway and save Athens for the end of your time in Greece so you don't have to stress about returning to the mainland at the last minute for your flight to Ireland.

shootingrubber

Thanks, much appreciated, that sounds good to me. We'll book our ferry / flight to Santorini from Athens a couple of hours after our flight lands from overseas lands. Which would you recommend? I have taken the ferry before in Athens and liked business class on the Blue Star Naxos very much, but hated the airplane seats on Blue Star 2.

Heimdall

Another good reason for doing Santorini first is that Greek Easter is on May 5th in 2013. The week before that will be busy with families going out to the islands, so the earlier you get to Santorini the better. I'm not saying Easter will be a problem for you, though — it won't.

Aramis

I agree with the Athens/Santorini switch unless you have already found a good flight from Santorini to Dublin that you are willing to book.

I don't know how you intend to get from Berlin to Munich, but it may make more sense to travel directly to Vienna from Berlin and than continue working your way west to Switzerland; Vienna, Salzburg, Munich, Switzerland.

It is about 3 more hours, by train, to get to Vienna from Berlin than it is to get to Munich from Berlin (about 9:15 vs. 6:15) You can take an overnight train.

Overall, it will take you more than 3 hours less time for your whole route if you go to Vienna from Berlin rather than to Munich. So, you would add 3 hours to one leg to save 3 hours in total. The Munich - Vienna - Munich backtracking is what is costing you the extra time.

Are you giving Berlin only 2 days for some reason? It is a fair distance from both Amsterdam, and Vienna/Munich so staying there for only 2 days puts some travel strain on that portion of the trip. If you are considering adding a night in light of that, I think that either Dublin, with 4 proposed nights, and Salzburg, with 3, could each, or both, comfortably exchange a night with Berlin

Heimdall

We cross-posted. If your flight arrives in time for the 07:25 Blue Star to Santorini, that would work well. The morning ferry is now Blue Star Delos. Otherwise there may or may not be Blue Star 1 or 2 to Santorini in the evening that day. Surest and quickest would be to book a flight.

shootingrubber

My flight only arrives at 11:45 AM on April 26, 2013, unfortunately. Thanks for the suggestion of going from Berlin to Vienna first, I think I will do that to save some travel time. No I wasn't giving Berlin only 2 days for any particular reason. I am willing to take into account any and all suggestions you guys have, I really appreciate it.

LeslieC

It would appear that, with the exception of Santorini, your trip is filled with short city visits and no time to see the countryside or smaller towns in these beautiful countries, This would not be my cup of tea. I am not such a 'slow trav' person as to suggest to stay all in one country (as 6 weeks is a great amount of time to see much), but your trip is city-oriented in the extreme. I think you might tire of cities and not get a real sense of any one country.

To go to Germany and only visit Berlin and Munich with no mention of smaller villages in the many beautiful areas of Germany(think Rhineland, Mosel valley, or Bavaria), or to fly all the way to Ireland for a few days in Dublin only (which is not the best part of Ireland IMHO), then on to London with no mention of the Cotswolds, Bath, York, Oxford, Cambridge, etc, and then to fly/train to Paris and not see the Loire Valley or Chartres, or Normandy, or Provence(I could go on)....is not a desireble plan from my perspective.

The only hint you give is your "many times to Paris" so perhaps you've already seen some of these outlying / countryside locales and your desire is only to re-visit cities. But if your first visit to some of these countries, I'd reconsider and visit fewer countries and balance it with a car rental or other touring outside of the cities.

Dukey1

I like Munich a lot but I think you should subtract one day from Munich and add it to Berlin. Depending on your interests, and, unfortunately you say nothing as to what those are, there is a LOT more to see and do in and around Berlin vs. Munich IMO. Again, depending on your interests.

Furthermore, you could re-route yourself from Berlin to Vienna as suggested and then go from Vienna to Salzburg, to Munich, to Switzerland, and finally to Paris. That order of progression makes more sense to me.

Now, depending on just where IN Switzerland you want to visit that will make a difference in progression as well. Bear in mind there are fast train services from Switzerland to Paris from Zurich, Basel, Lausanne, and Geneva.

brotherleelove2004

Definitley fly to and from Santorini. You don't have enough time to take the ferry. It's an 8-hour journey.

shootingrubber

LeslieC, thanks for your comment, and I do agree with you to some extent. While we do like seeing big cities, we also like to see the countryside and smaller towns as well. What would you recommend we do, seeing as we will not have a car and I have no desire to rent one either. Our dates are set for April 25 to June 7, into Athens and out of Paris.

Aramis

You don't need to stay in the smaller towns to see them. You can take day trips from most of these major cities. If you actually want to spend some overnights in smaller locations, you are probably going to have to drop a city or two or drop your time in quite a few of them by 1 night.

Try and decide whether you want to cut city time for towns, or focus on day tripping and things change a little.

There are lots of recommendations you can find in these forums - search "day trips from xxxx" - for places to stop or stay along the way. Recommended places to spend overnights would be a little different and route dependent.

Are you going to have a rail pass?

shootingrubber

I haven't decided about a rail pass just yet. It will depend on logistics and if it will make sense for us, so I will see when our itinerary is set in stone, and then I will figure out how we'll get around to all of these places. The only thing set is our flight in and out of Europe, but we will definitely be flying from Athens to Dublin when we're done in Greece.

Further, I am definitely not opposed to day trips, as I think they would allow us to see many more towns away from the big cities. Let me know what you guys would recommend.

Dukey1

I suggest you think very strongly about how you are "going to get around to all these places" ahead of time. You could budget fly, or use rail, or rent a car (and probably pay a big drop charge in Paris).

As to a pass, people are going to tell you not to get one or not to get one through Rail Europe....pass prices are SET by the railroads, NOT by RailEurope but you might want to compare the cost of point-to-point tickets vs getting a pass before making a final decision.

Dukey1

And again, what ARE your interests? You remain mysteriously silent on that point and I wonder why that is so?

shootingrubber

Museums, experiencing local culture, wine, good food, and just walking around seeing a new place, see how other people live, etc...

Further, I will not be renting a car, but I will be using budget airlines like I have in the past, as well as rail travel.

shootingrubber

Here is an updated itinerary, which I have been working on. I am not sure if I will go ahead with this one, but I would like to get some input on this. I have cut a couple cities, as I am not sure if they would be worth it without seeing other parts of their respective countries.

Anyways, here it is:

Santorini
April 26 - April 29

Athens
April 30 - May 1

London
May 2 - 8

Berlin
May 9 - 12

Dresden
May 13 - 15

Vienna
May 16 - 19

Salzburg
May 20 - 22

Munich
May 23 - 26

Freiburg
May 27 - 28

Lucerne
May 29 - June 1

Grindelwald
June 2 - 5

Paris
June 5 - 7

Let me know what you think and what I should consider changing.

Thanks in advance.

shootingrubber

Sorry, there is a typo in my last post. Grindelwald should be June 2 - 4, so 3 nights.

Aramis

Looks like you are tightening it up!

Personally, I would be hard pressed to spend 4 days in Lucerne. Perhaps a couple and then off to Grindelwald.

I am also not a big Black Forest fan - Freiburg is nice but it is going to take you 4.5 - 5 hours to get there from Munich, so the better part of a day, leaving you with 1.5 days. If you decided to come to see the Black Forest, you won't have time, really because Freiburg is at the western edge, not actually in the forest. so you have to take a trip in. You could add a a day or two from Lucerne to make this an easier stop.

Have you looked at some of the towns on Lake Konstanz, like Meersburg and Lindau? They are smaller and easier to get to than Freiburg. Lindau is only 2 hours from Munich and about 2 from Lucerne.

Another option would be to go all the way to Strasbourg, instead of Freiburg, and add a day or two from Lucerne's 4 days and you could visit some of the towns on the Alsatian Wine Route, like Riquewihr, Hunawihr, Ribeauville, etc..

You have lots of small town day trip options from Vienna, Munich, and Dresden.

tn

Agree with Armis on Lucerne. I would add more time Grindelwald.

I would also suggest dropping a day from Dresden and adding it to Vienna.