spain_traveller

I know crime can happen anywhere and it is always best to be safe. But is crime really that bad in Spain?? I have heard all the dire warnings (mostly about Madrid and Barcelona). I read all of the same stuff about Italy, inclduding Rome and was really paranoid. And nothing, absolutely nothing happened or was even a close call. Also, we will be there in December, not the "high season" - any chance the thiefs will be on holiday ? Not going to let it ruin my trip - but I am curious about reality versus fact.

Chele60

Is the crime really that bad where you live? It's the same thing, really. I was given all the same dire warnings - almost to the point of being scared to board the plane! Was in Spain for 2+ weeks (including 5 total days in Madrid), drove a car for 2 weeks, used the ATM, etc. Nothing happened. Nothing.

Take the usual precautions you would whenever you travel. And don't leave your common sense at home.

Ackislander

I think the level of one's concerns about crime may well be related to whether one lives in a city, a suburb, or a small town.

If you live in a city, you develop a sixth sense about when you should cross the street to avoid oncoming groups, keep a tight hand on your briefcase or purse, move to the other end of the subway platform, or drive on instead of taking a parking place in a sketchy area. You don't really think about this as watching out for crime, it is just the way you live.

You also learn to "occupy a space" for want of a better phrase. You don't shrink up, trying to disappear when you are alone, and you don't shrink back if someone is close to you on the bus at rush hour. Nor do you act pushy or provocative. You just occupy your space and look confident doing it.

If you live in the suburbs, you hear all about crime without actually experiencing the streets where it is supposed to be taking place, which may be the worst of all. You get the fear without the reality. When we moved to the suburbs, we let our kids take the subway into Boston to do things. Our neighbors were horrified, but they let their kids drive all over the place at night in cars, which terrified me!

PalQ

My sister-in-law was violently mugged in Madrid at 7am on a Sunday morning in front of Atocha station - thief was trying to get her day pack off her and she was trying to get it off to give to him as had nothing valuable in it but couldn't ended up in gutter and struggled for a few minutes. Nearby shopkeepers opening shops stood by and did nothing.
I know many many stories of folks being mugged in Barcelona and Madrid - right in the heart of things. Rare in Europe you have violent crime routinely and have only heard of it in these two cities systematically.
there have been many posts here testifying to that. Why local authorities don't do something about it beats me - a few undercover cops could seemingly solve this terrible problem.
Don't wear the family jewels and keep everything in a moneybelt under your clothes.

Cimbrone

I am no expert on Spain or its crime problem. However, during a two hour visit to the Rastro market (between flights), I encountered two separate situations in which angry members of a particular immigrant group made a commotion. In one case it was a group of teenagers who were obviously angry at some perceived slight and making a scene about it. In another, it was an elderly man. Those two hours constitute my entire time in Spain, and they certainly left a bad taste in my mouth. That may not be rational, but I think it's understandable.

My mother is also friends with a Cuban woman who moved to the U.S. from Madrid due to crime.

Certainly, all of this is anecdotal. But I felt like sharing...

PalQ

Armed guards ride the metro trains to and from the airport - in most cars the time i took it. A Madrid woman cautioned me about the airport metro trains and crime.
Not saying crime is rampant and you'll be victimized but the chance here is more than in any other western European country it seems - at least physical crime.

PatrickLondon

I think that might be the difference Ackislander was talking about, Cimbrone. As a Londoner it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see people in a market getting angry and making a fuss, whatever their background. It happens in crowds (and not necessarily in big cities, nor in any particular social or ethnic group). I wouldn't regard it as an index of crime, but I would know to get out of the way of trouble.

It's a question of what you've grown up to learn to deal with. If you go to another country, you're in unfamiliar situations. Hence (for example) the concerns a few years ago about British tourists in rental cars in Florida falling victim because they didn't know where not to go.

polly229

Actually, the situation with rental cars [mostly in south FL] was anybody in rental cars, not just Brits and not just in "bad areas". At that time, all rental cars had certain letters on the tags that would identify them as rentals; criminals had only to drive down the highways to find out-of-towners. More likely to be broken into because there might be valuables in them and more likely to be run off the roads and robbed for one important reason - tourists aren't so likely to return to testify in court as locals. I suspect the court thing could be a factor in many countries. I suppose tourists are also more likely to be carrying enough cash to make robbing them worthwhile. Another disadvantage to being identifiable as a tourist.

(FL law now requires rental cars to be tagged just like other cars. I guess you have to get close enough to see the bar codes on the windows now.)

lol930

I'm also agreeing with Ackislander. If you live in a populated area, you are probably already taking all of the necessary precautions without realizing it. (second nature.)Just try not to be a target.

At ATM's in Barcelona, (which are right on the street as opposed to small vestibules inside banks), never turn around until your money is back in your wallet & the wallet is put away. I've seen too many people leaving cash machines with cash in their hands. A target.

When strolling down Las Ramblas, never put your bulging wallet in your back pocket or let your purse hang off your shoulder towards the back. I've seen several suspicious pairs following unsuspecting tourists, waiting for an easy chance to make some money. A target.

When walking down the street at night, walk a little briskly & make sure you size up who's coming in the opposite direction, making eye contact if possible. I've seen quite a few post-dinner (& maybe post-wine) couples walking slowly, arm-in-arm, completely oblivious to their surroundings. A target.

Unfortunately, the thieves won't be on holiday in the "off season." Instead, there will be less of the naive tourists to pick from, and more chance you could be singled out. It's not that crime is really that bad- just don't let yourself be a target...

marigross

I have been five times in Madrid, no problem so far. Three of those as a solo business traveller. I have never been to the infamous Rastro market so I cannot give witness as to the situation there.

I am careful Madrid as I am careful and aware of my surroundings anywhere. Nevertheless, when I travel internationaly I do carry my passport and spare credit card on my body and not in my bag. I would hate to spend precious vacation time in the embassy trying to get a replacement passport! I do this not only because of theft but because I have occassionaly simply forgotten my bag somewhere

I live in San Juan, Puerto Rico where petty crime is not uncommon, therefore I might be considered city-savvy when compared to a small town person. If you live in a very low-crime area and are used to 'floating' around without paying attention you might appear to be an easy target.

laclaire

I now live in Barcelona and am very good at not getting mugged, but was not when I visited when I was younger. Once my wallet was stolen from my backpack while going up the stairs of the Sagrada Familia, and the second time my lovely new leather purse (which I was wearing for the first time) was ripped off my shoulder, leaving me with a strap burn on my neck and the strap in my hand, chasing the guy down the street yelling "hijo de puta." And once my cell phone got stolen, but that is another story.

Anyways, in those cases I was unaware of my surroundings. I had my wallet in the front pocket of my backpack. That is stupid. Then the purse thing, well, I heard running steps before it was ripped from my shoulder, and did not think to grab my stuff, which is now a reaction for me when I hear running. The cell phone, well, I was reading my e-mail, answered it, and then put it in my jacket pocket, which was hanging on my chair. Again, really dumb. I am not saying those things were my fault, but I am now much more aware and can tell when something is about to happen. So, here you have my list of how not to get robbed:
1) if taking the metro, use the stairs, not the escalators. I have never once heard of anyone getting robbed going up or down the stairs whereas most metro theft happens on the escalators.
2) in crowded spaces (metro, clubs, Ramblas, etc), hold your bag with both hands in front of you.
3) never go down streets unless you see women (prostitutes do not count on this one) and children. That is especially helpful at night. Also, if you see a street with just a few men, avoid it (especially in downtown BCN) because oftentimes they get you in there and work as a team. Ihave observed this from a friend's balcony numerous times.
4) Don't carry your valuables where people can see them. I actually say don't carry valuables period.
5) Trust no one.
6) If you feel a bad vibe, move away from it. I have been walking down a street and seen someone coming towards me that I thought was "off" and have turned right around and left, or run ahead to a group of people I didn't know but felt were not sketchy and walked close to them. Safety in numbers.
7) feel free to racial prifile your way through the city. I don't mean to sound crude, and frankly, every group in the world has robbers, but after numerous attempts at being PC and getting screwed, I won't even speak to random members of certain ethnic groups. In fact, I was dating a guy from one of those groups and he was the one who told me that if one of his compatriots walks up to me and asks for a light/cigarette/the time/etc, it is because I am going to get mugged.

I guarantee you that if you say there were not even any close calls, you simply were not paying attention. These people are professionals and they are very good at what they do. I have seen some robberies that were very impressive and once a friend and I were at a table and she got robbed and neither of us noticed (her bag was between her feet under the table and somehow the thief got under there and cut the strap. . . WTF?!).

Yes, December is a slow month, but everyone's gotta eat no matter what, and if that is what puts food on the table, they need you to be there.

Myer

The only time I was ever pickpocketed was at the Rastro in Madrid.

It was the first trip that I had implemented my new strategy that essentially is based on the fact that I'm a tourist and want to remain that way and they are professional and good at what they do.

I carry nothing in my pockets other than about $20, street map, etc.

I wear a small pouch with my belt slid through the loop and slipped down the front of my pants. Really, impossible to get to.

My street map and empty sunglasses case were taken and then in disgust given back about 30 seconds later. He didn't adnit it but just told me somebody took it. I said "yeah".

I was the "cause" of a fight/argument on a tram in Prague this spring. One person started to yell at the other claiming he was trying to get into my backpack. Maybe they were a team. Maybe they weren't.

A successful robbery of my backpack might have netted my umbrella, maybe a sweatshirt or something else of equivalent value.

Dukey

The only time I was ever pickpocketed was on the Metro in Barcelona; on subsequent trips I have been more careful.

"Is the crime really that bad?"

Yes, it is when it happens to <b>you</b>.

sashh

Think about it from the criminal's point of view. Someone who has the money to cross the atlantic is carrying money, probably a camera and maybe some expensive jewelery.

They probably don't know the language so will find it harder to report the crime.

Try to look as local as possible. If you can't look local look like someone who has been there a while - dress like the locals and always look as if you know where you are going.

If someone is going to pick a pocket they will do - all you can do is make your pocket look less attractive than the next person's.

Cato

I'm thinking more and more that the Spanish just lack the guts to confront and stop thiefs.

PatrickLondon

I'm thinking as I always have that generalisations are pointless.

BRR

laclaire,

thank you, I am going to forward your message to my daughter, you gave some very good practical information. That's what we need, practical advice, and we won't join the ranks of victims. I'm sure that basically, never be on your own, but sometimes it just isn't practical.

Any other advice would be very much appreciated, especially for young women, I know that a couple of years ago, my daughter went to study abroad in Paris and wished that she had been forewarned about the aggressive european men in general, and could have used some advice on dealing with it. As a young American student, she had to endure marriage proposals galore as she would make her way across the city. She had no choice but to go it alone, as all the students were in separate homestays.

bigtyke

I saw an article this week that stated that you are twiced as likely to be murdered in Belgium than New York!

lincasanova

&quot;I'm thinking more and more that the Spanish just lack the guts to confront and stop thiefs.&quot;

until the laws are changed..it will do no good. and what spansih ? the police ..or the people themselves?

i cannot understand it either.. we are living in an insane society where the &quot;bad&quot; guys are really living it up.
few consequences are paid in this country. ask anyone who lives here..

they do better at giving parking tickets than putting these guys away.
according to police friends.. it is the LAW and the judges who apply the present laws that are not updated to what the rest of us would like to see happening.
too much fear of being called &quot;fascist&quot; again after franco´s death.

so we have a very permissive society that has become the european mafia haven and illegal immigrant paradise.

measures are being taken, but frankly, i think the country is overwhelmed with all these problems and does not have the resources nor the laws to deal with it. hopefully things will be revamped at some point.

Cato

I say its time for the Spanish people to take back thier fine society from those dirty crooks and evil loafers. Expell those weak, soft on crime judges and shame those meter maid police into being crime busting demons again.