csr:<BR>We met Steve and Avril for the first time in Queenstown, New Zealand while on holiday. We're from Jackson, Tennessee, they're from Wrexham, Wales. We later met them in Edinburgh. Last November they spent 5 days with us in Jackson. <BR>We're planning to visit them in Wrexham in a few months. <BR>Two of the nicest people you ever want to meet. If most folks in Wales are like them, I'd opt for Wales.

Steve, you did say that the scenery in the Lake District "beats anything you'll find in Ireland or Wales." If, as you say, you weren't trying to compare the Lake District with Ireland or Wales, why did you say that? It wasn't Ann who first came up with that comparison.<BR><BR>More generally, why do people need to denigrate one place in order to praise another?<BR><BR>

Rick,<BR><BR>Seeing Ireland by bus is doable, but it is more difficult than, for example, rail travel in Britain. It would be less an option in winter, since schedules are reduced and you'd be walking/waiting outdoors alot.<BR><BR>If you MUST get to points A, B, and C on a strict schedule, you may find that Bus Eireann is not up to the task. If you are willing to plan your itinerary around the timetables and don't mind walking to/from bus stops, it can be a rewarding experience. Day tours can also help round out your itinerary.<BR><BR>It's not as convenient as renting a car, but it might be more rewarding since you're not isolated in your own personal four-wheeled box most of the time.

First time to Ireland and don't want too much stress. Guess I've been lucky to use timely and relatively cheap train transport in Italy, Austria, Germany and France. Lack the nerve to drive on the left, but don't want to surrender and go the escorted tour route.

Rick:<BR><BR>I understand the dicomfort with driving on the opposite side of the road, but don't rule it out completely. I drove myself and love it. You will no doubt get lost, and that may be the most fun you have the whole trip. The Irish people are so friendly and will go out of their way to help you get where you are going. I drive all the time and never feel like I'm isolated in my own four wheel box.<BR><BR>Bill

topping it

Don't worry about driving. It is simple, and once you have the hang of left hand driving (and you will very quickly) the freedom is worth this small amount of trouble. Did a week driving in West Ireland this summer and the roads are no problem and well sing posted. There has been a lot of EU money put in to the transport system and there are good roads linking all the main towns.

Huh?<BR><BR>I stand corrected. I should have included "in my humble opinion". Wait a minute, I'm tipping over.<BR><BR>What's up with the doofus names and doofus email addresses at this site?

For the information of MikeyMoo who I think is either totally high on drugs or dreaming, Wales far from stinks, unless he lives in a small bedsit here and then his room would certainly stink of Moo Poo.<BR>Wales is certainly beautiful, and is different from Irelan that is also beautiful.<BR>we have fantastic castles here in wales and Cardiff is a lovely city to visit, try it, you can come too MikeyMoo then you may not be so opinionated.<BR><BR>Richie

For the information of MikeyMoo who I think is either totally high on drugs or dreaming, Wales far from stinks, unless he lives in a small bedsit here and then his room would certainly stink of Moo Poo.<BR>Wales is certainly beautiful, and is different from Ireland that is also beautiful.<BR>we have fantastic castles here in wales and Cardiff is a lovely city to visit, try it, you can come too MikeyMoo then you may not be so opinionated.<BR><BR>Richie

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I was disappointed in Ireland, but most likely because I went there just after spending 10 glorious days in Northern Wales. The scenery in Wales is fantastic, including the Pembrokeshire Coast in the south. Tenby is like a mediterranean village. I also love gardens and flowers, and even the cottage gardens in Wales are more extensive than those in Ireland, not to mention the large gardens such as Bodnant. The castles are larger than the ones I saw in Ireland, and there are large country houses to visit. I didn't have a problem with the language in Wales, nor with crowds, nor with unfriendly people. I've been to Wales three times and hope to return again.<BR><BR>But, an important consideration is getting there. From where I live, there are no direct flights to Ireland, which adds to the cost and travel time. You can't truly see the countryside of either Wales or Ireland without renting a car or taking some kind of tour, so in that respect they are about equal. And, if you've never been to either one and don't have a basis of companison, you'll no doubt love whichever one you choose.

I forgot to mention that in Ireland the pubs with Irish music will be jam packed with Americans, and you'll be lucky to see the musicians through the smoke.

Quote: <BR> <BR>Author: MikeyMoo<BR>Date: 09/17/2002, 12:03 pm<BR>Message: Wales stinks, Yes attractive landscape in places.<BR>However, unfriendly, narrow-minded inbred population, dirty, unsightly City and towns - is that a generalisation?<BR>Stick to Eire, you can't go wrong.&quot;<BR><BR>Mikey Moo I wonder if you ever visited Wales...or if so were you drunk late at night and ended up in a gutter and later on a Police Cell.<BR>Come back and open your eyes. We Welsh are willing to open our Lovely towns and cities ..even to idiots like you.<BR>If you like I will personally take you on a tour of Cardiff area. Then see if you still feel the same way.<BR>Oh and by the way my family originate from county Clare..<BR><BR>Muck<BR>

on the subject at hand, which is better for a bicycling tour? Ireland or Wales?

Last summer we noticed far more bicyclists in SW Ireland in organized groups, more hikers in Wales. However, the roads are very narrow in N. Wales around Snowdonia Park (the only Welsh region we visited), so this may be the reason.

Two well-planned days should do you for Dublin.