Ireland, London & Paris in 16 days

Jun 13th, 2013, 12:03 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2013
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Ireland, London & Paris in 16 days

Hey y'all,

My wife and and have been really wanting to go to Europe for quite a while and next year is looking like its finally happening the last week of April and first week of May in 2014. We are excited about it and because of how expensive flights are and how difficult it is for us to get a couple of weeks off with work, we are planning on packing Ireland, London and Paris into 2 weeks. We have 17 days, 2 of which will e almost completely eaten up by flights and leaving us 15 real travel days. We have an open jaw flight into Dublin (from Arkansas) and back home via Paris. We plan on renting a car through Ireland as neither of us care for the bus route very much at all.

I was told it was a bit, uh, ambitious and robust so i tried to scale back a bit, but it's hard to cut things out. I know it looks like a sprint though Ireland and I don't think the full 2 weeks would be enough for all Ireland can offer, but we are short of travel funds and time and we are mid-20's and don't mind long days. I tried to estimate how much driving may be for each day. This is what we have tried to game plan for so far:

Day 1 (Arrival):

Explore Dublin
- Tour St Patrick's cathedral
- St Stephen's greens
- Grafton street shopping
- Tour Guinness storehouse
- Explore Temple bar market

Day 2: 2.5 hours of driving

Rent car and Drive towards Cork
- See Blarney Castle & Blarney Stone
- Explore Cork
- Stop at Rock of Cashel

Day 3: 3.5 hours of driving + time on Ring of Kerry

- Drive the Ring of Kerry to see views an countryside and take Skellig Michael tour
Stop at Killarney for the night

Day 4: 1.5 hours of driving

- Hike the Gap of Dunloe
- Explore Killarney
Stay the night at Limerick

Day 5: 2 hours of driving

Drive to Shannon - check into hotel
- Drive through the Burren to Doolin to see Doolin (music town & caves), Cliffs of Moher & O'Brien's tower
- Drive back to Shannon for Bunratty Palace Banquet

Day 6 (Departure):

Fly to London
Check in to hotel
Free day

Day 7:

Explore London
Big Ben & House of Parliament
Westminster Abbey
Buckingham Palace for changing of the guards

And whatever we can it in of -
St James Palace
Natural History Museum
Royal Albert Hall & Albert Memorial to
Kensington Gardens & Palace

Day 8:

Explore London
Piccadilly Circus for shopping
Oxford Street
British Museum
Covent Gardens
Royal Opera House

Day 9:

Explore London
Temple Bar & Temple Church
St Paul's Cathedral
Tower of London
Tower Bridge
Tate Modern & Global Theatre art galleries
London eye

Day 10 (Departure):

Free Morning
Take Eurostar to Paris
Free afternoon and night in Paris

Day 11:

Walk Champs-Élysées
Arc de Triomphe
Ile St Louis area
Musee d'Orsay - quick visit as we aren't huge art fans
Siene river cruise tour
Montmartre area
Basilique de Sacre Couer

Day 12:

The Louvre
Quays of Siene
Ile de la Cite
Notre dame
Eiffel Tower

Day 13:

Day trip to Versailles
Night in Paris
Opera de Paris at Palais Garnier

Day 14:

Day trip to Orleans (Chateau de Chambord, Loire Valley) or Champagne region (Provins) or Burgundy region or
Giverny (Monet house and gardens) or Chartres or

Spend Night in Paris

Day 15:

Free day in Paris

Day 16 (Departure):

Fly home

I would love any tips and/or advice on this itinerary, including on the best way to fill any gaps or free days (they'll fill up quick, I'm sure) and if we should spend the full extra day hiking in Killarney (Day 4) or elsewhere through Ireland. Thats the 1st big request.

The second part is budgeting for this trip...which seems to be a nightmare. I've tried to research online quite a bit. I figured our open jaw flight flight cost at $1,000, a one way flight from Shannon to London via Aer Lingus around $70, and the Eurostar from London to Paris at $90, all per person of course. I rounded that up to $1,300 per person for any extras and for taxes, etc. Also, I saw rental car for the time in Ireland for around $400.

I also am guessing at lodging for Ireland averaging a little over $100/night. I know there cheaper B&B's and hostels but we both wanted nice enough rooms that when we head to bed at night we still feel like we are one vacation, in our room that feels like Ireland and not any plain 2 star hotel room that could be in some other part of the world. For centrally located, nice hotels in London and Paris, where we won't have a car, we thought a reasonable average might be $150 a night.

Here's where the big uncertainty steps in. My wife is a major foodie. Eating good food abroad is a top priority. Especially in Paris. We doubt have to have ties and white table clothes or bottles of the finest wine. But if we do say 4 dinner at "nice" restaurants during this trip, and want authentic Irish/British/French cuisine for a lower costs at our lunches and eat most breakfasts at the hotel, what should I expect to pay? An ambiguous question I know., but how expensive is food in big European cities? And how much do you have to be willing to spend to good the delicious, famous, "authentic" food in Europe? I get lost here... We don't have unlimited funds but we don't mind paying for quality food.

We would like a little extra money for shopping and also to spend for admissions to some of the attractions.

So where have I gone wrong? Anything look unreasonable? If anyone can throw some helpful and useful advice at a forum newbie with an obscenely long posts, sorry for that by the way, it would be greatly appreciated!
WhatAreWeWaitingFor is offline  
Jun 13th, 2013, 01:16 PM
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Welcome WAWWF

Congratulations on your upcoming trip. You've obviously given it some thought. It's good to scope out a general idea of what you want to see so you know how long to stay at each place. Perhaps a little early for detailed day planning though. ;-)

There will be some that say you are doing too much, but I think you can make it work. Some of your days are a little full. Be sure to have primary goals (2 major sites / day) and "stretch" goals that you can hit if you have the time/energy. Even with your youth, you won't want to go hard at it every day.

A few miscellaneous comments:

Changing of the Guards is a lot of time for little to see.

Tower of London is a good 3-5 hours. Maybe that, St. Pauls and perhaps the Eye later in the evening.

Day 11 -- covering a lot (too much) ground here I think.

Day 12 -- fairly ambitious as well

Days 12-13 -- maybe just one trip out of the city instead of 2. you can be flexible about this.

I think your budget estimates are possible but might also be on the low side. Depends on what you are looking for.

As a rough estimate for food / restaurants, think what you would pay in $$ and assume the same in ££ or €€ (e.g. $20 will be £20).

Finally, I know I'm old with kids, but you still might find my TR's and blog posts helpful:



indy_dad is offline  
Jun 13th, 2013, 01:22 PM
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First: save up.

I'm thinking the Eire-o-philes will tell you your drive estimates are low.


Good luck finding a "centrally located, nice hotel" in Paris for $150 per. More like 175E per and then add 35% to make the dollar conversion. If you stay outside the 4-7e arrondissements, you have a chance to get something in the 135-150E range that would work well.

Note that if you're not huge art fans, stress the Musee d'Orsay over the Louvre because the crowds are smaller and so is the museum. Note also that you need a bloody map - your day 11 itinerary would have you bopping all over Paris and Ile St Louis is thisclose to Notre Dame (day 12). Visit the famous stiffs at Pere Lachaise (sp?) too.

In London, "centrally located, nice hotel" means 150 quid. Add about 60% to get the dollar conversion. If you're just looking for clean and serviceable, then you MAY be able to find something in the $150 range but don't expect it to be more than just adequate. You may luck out because you're in a shoulder period for travel generally, but London doesn't have a low season.

Attractions in London tend to be free for many, costly for some. The "some" (Tower, St Paul's, Churchill War Rooms, Hampton Ct Palace) are often made easier to bear with the 2for1 discounts from (e.g., two admissions to the Tower for 21 quid instead of one). The list of London museums that have no admission charge is long. You can't do the Tower, St. Paul's and Tate Modern without serious rush. The Tower is most of a day.

Temple Bar is in Dublin. If you mean the Inner and Middle Temple inns of court, those are in London. Changing of the guard is BS. Try Ceremony of the Keys at the Tower instead.

The "the delicious, famous, 'authentic' food in Europe" isn't. European isn't a cuisine. Some of the most "authentic" food in Europe is crap, same as anywhere else.

Irish cuisine isn't high on foodie lists. English cuisine isn't either, although that also depends upon what you call "authentic English cuisine." After all, London has a ton of excellent places to eat and you'll pay in pounds close to what you pay in dollars for an equivalent restaurant. England's national dish is chicken tikka, and that wasn't devised by descendants of Picts, Angles, Saxons or Normans. French is a foodie cuisine. To get top-end French, you usually spend serious money. To get good meals, you can go to a brasserie.

Shopping in Europe is overrated unless it's something you cannot get in the US. The US is far less expensive. In London, Oxford Street and Regent Street have a ton of brands you can buy in the US for less. Jermyn Street does not - go there.
BigRuss is offline  
Jun 13th, 2013, 04:06 PM
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Thanks for the quick and detailed responses y'all. The trip itinerary is still a rough draft so I appreciate the help polishing it up.

Indy dad,

I'm surprised by the comments on the Changing of the Guards nad the Tower of London. I saw the Changing of the Guards at Arlington Cemetery in DC and I'll never forget it. I probably set the expectations for it in England. But I thought the Tower of London was more of a see-it-from-the-outside-see-the-crown-jewels-exit-left sight and why I didn't give it much time. I take it there is a full museum in the Tower? This kind of surprise is the downfall of self-planning overseas trips without someone who has been there so thanks for the TRs.

Days 11-12 were intentionally packed full. Kind of like, hey if we somehow do it all without killing ourselves then great, but if we miss anything the "free day" on Day 15 is meant to be a "clean-up". Also, the second day trip out of Paris will likely be cut for time and money sake. We couldn't rule out a day in the countryside just yet though.

Big Russ,

I thought the drive times may be low, especially if we take a leisurely pace. I did have to google Eire-o-phile, just for curiosity of the Ireland reference though, haha.

I really should revise what I mean by "centrally located and nice". I'm not expecting to stay at the Westin at the lawns of the Eiffel Tower or anything. I used a search for 4 & 5 star hotels within 5 miles of the city center, whatever that exactly means anyway. I found around 15 results in Paris for under $150 (no tax, which adds a bit). I have no idea if the 4 star rating and the TripAdvisor reviews hold up, but some of the places are Adagio Paris Montrogue, a few Novotel places, Mercure Paris Montmartre Sacre Coeur, and Mercure Paris Austerlitz Bibliotheque. Most of these had the 4 stars, good reviews, and were within 1.5 -3 miles from the city center, which may or may not be near to where we want to go for our "tourist" sights. Not sure what/where the 4-7e arrondissements might be, but I'm assuming near the places on my list.

London was tougher, but with about the same criteria as the Paris hotels I found the Thistle Kensington Gardens, the William IV, Chamberlain Hotel, Commodore Hotel and the Colonnade Hotel. Do you have any reviews/recommendations with any of these hotels or even the area some of them may be at?

And with the cuisine, you are right. Irish and English don't stand out for the food and what I was 95% referring to was the French cuisine and all the food of Paris. I figured London was way too big a city to not have some top notch restaurants as well though. The reason I wanted to stress famous, authentic, etc is that I talked to a person about food in Europe before and how we would like to eat some really good food over there. They replied "Oh, don't worry! They have McDonalds and TGI Friday restaurants over there too!". When I saw it wasn't a joke I had to bit my tongue. Not exactly what we are looking all. We would spend top-end money in France once for a dinner for the seriously good stuff. Good to know the good food in London isn't much different than here in price at least.

I haven't heard of Jermyn street before but we will check it out. We aren't there to do serious shopping, but a bit of window shopping and seeing the stores and if we find something we gotta have, we can get it.

As for the Temple Bar in Dublin, that is definitely on the to do lists just at a different time. The Temple Bar I'm talking about is the old city gate...just something to walk by and see.

We will definitely be using the 2 for 1 discounts though, especially for the Tower and St Paul's. We can skip the changing of the guards, but I don't know much about the Ceremony of the Keys.

The single most difficult and frustrating thing so far is trying to plan the days in big cities without going haywire on locations. There is no good maps online that I can find that show or pin where in the city all the tourist sites are.

Any good tips on where to find a map with the sights above on the itinerary clearly shown would be great. One that has an interface that lets you select the tourist sites would be even better.
WhatAreWeWaitingFor is offline  
Jun 13th, 2013, 04:47 PM
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I was curious about the London dates...We've been to London many times and would not consider staying in any of the places we've seen for $150 (Note we always use Priceline for London and we get GREAT deals)
So I looked at the Thistle Kensington for April 24-27 2014 - and it came out to $192/nt incl tax without breakfast. So I'm not sure where you see a $150 rate .
newtome is offline  
Jun 13th, 2013, 04:58 PM
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For costs I think you need to assume prices will be about 50% higher than you are used to at home - for anything except gas - which will be about double..

In Dublin you are missing IMHO the most important sights in Ireland - the Book of Kells at Trinity.

Overall I think you are trying to do too much each day and not allowing realistic time to get from one place to another - or how long it takes to see major sights (the green michelin guide is great since it will tell you the minimum time to see any sight).
nytraveler is offline  
Jun 13th, 2013, 05:09 PM
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I haven't waded through the whole posts but this caught my attention big time >>But I thought the Tower of London was more of a see-it-from-the-outside-see-the-crown-jewels-exit-left sight and why I didn't give it much time. I take it there is a full museum in the Tower?<<

I think you really need to get yourselves a couple of guide books. The Tower of London is THE quintessential Medieval castle. It is large/interesting/historic . . . and not much to see from the outside. One can't just pop in and see the Crown Jewels - they are inside. A first visit to the Tower will usually take an absolute minimum of 3 hours and sometimes twice that depending on your interests.

And the Changing of the Guard is not anything like what you saw at Arlington. It is much more spectacle/music/marching troops. The main problem w/ trying to see it is it requires getting there very early and just standing doing nothing for at least 2 hours before the spectacle starts - otherwise you won't see a darn thing. You end up spending about 3 hours standing in one place as the crowds arrive - no bleachers just pavement. Watch it on youtube - you'll get a much better view.
janisj is offline  
Jun 13th, 2013, 05:13 PM
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The Ceremony of the Keys is fabulous (and free) - you need to request tickets well in advance and follow the directions on the Tower's website exactly.
janisj is offline  
Jun 13th, 2013, 05:28 PM
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re those London hotels:

the William IV is not in a good/convenient location on the Harrow Rd near Kensal Green station

the Chamberlain is not far from the Tower and Aldgate East station. It is on the east side of London but MUCH better for touring than the William IV

the Colonade is in Little Venice which is a nice area - but its not convenient for sightseeing since the only two near-ish tube station are on the Bakerloo line

the Kensington Gardens Thisle is on Bayswater Rd across the street from Hyde Park/Kens Gardens and is more central. It is near the Queensway tube station so only on the Central line

None of these are convenient for LHR - but if you use a car service instead of the tube then I'd choose the Thistle or the Chamberlain.

BTW - don't go by 'star rating'. In Europe the starts only tell you the amenities (ac, elevator, whatever) and has nothing to do w/ quality.
janisj is offline  
Jun 13th, 2013, 05:36 PM
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I agree on Changing of the Guard - really not worth the time you are going to lose. Plus, you can get some serious sightseeing done while all the crowds are watching the Changing. Nothing like Arlington. We regret the three hours we spent there. We spent 4 hours in Tower and highly recommend joining a Yeomans Tour. Very informative. A most enjoyable journey was a river cruise to Greenwich. The boat dock is at the Tower - we finished the Tower and straight away to catch the cruise. Observatory in Greenwich is worth the trip. Have a wonderful trip.
Nancy2361 is offline  
Jun 13th, 2013, 08:54 PM
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My suggestion for the Tower of London:

1) arrive 15 minutes or so before opening to queue for tickets
2) head to the Crown Jewels upon entry
3) double back to the Yeoman tour at the entrance
4) explore the rest of the castle complex (exhibits, walls, etc.)

We also really enjoyed Greenwich but I'm not sure it fits your plans.
indy_dad is offline  
Jun 13th, 2013, 09:18 PM
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Hey newtome,

I used Kayak as a search and Thistle Kensington Gardens, not the TK Palace, is listed as $135 per night from the 24 to check out the morning of the 28th. Not sure why the difference. I just double checked the price to be sure.

NYtraveler, that's a lot higher than I hoped. Is the increase you are putting because of the Euro or pound? Or just generally higher prices and the. A weak dollar as well?

The Book of Kells would be awesome. I loved seeing the Guttenburg Bible in DC, but I don't know how much Ike we will have in Dublin...


Thanks for the hotel rundown! I was liking the Chamberlain more than the others just by the photos I've seen and that definitively puts it firmly on top. If not by star ratings l, what would you say is the best guide to searching for a quality hotel other than by price tag shopping for the highest price?

For the Tower of London, I just had a complete brain splice and somehow mentally spliced the Tower Bridge with the Crown Jewels inside, all the while I was typing Tower of London..I'm obviously needing it to be Friday before my brain explodes. I actually have heard of the Tower of London. I'm enjoy history a lot actually, but some museums I have a hard time getting into... Tower of London doesn't sound like one of those though.

And Nancy, a Thames river cruise sounds great. I originally had it down but had to try to cut back. And other than the Changing of the Guards what would you all recommend cutting? Unfortunately, there now way to get more days and how we split up the countries (5 days each approximately) was a big comprise me and my wife talked out and are fairly set on...

A couple of the Gardena and both the Natural History Museum and British Museum could be cut without me losing too much sleep, but it'd be great if we had extra time for them.
WhatAreWeWaitingFor is offline  
Jun 14th, 2013, 01:16 AM
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Lots to talk about here, but let's start with flights.

I think you can put US to Dublin, Dublin to London Gatwick, and Paris to US via Dublin on one ticket that will cost less than you are now looking at. It is also too early to buy, so resist th temptation just to get everything settled. Eurostar is a great way to get from London to Paris, second class is fine though marginal for me at 6'3". You will be happier if you don't get a seat at a table where you spend the whol trip avoiding the feet of the person across from you.

Your Paris itinerary Is all over the map, literally. Do your walk up the Champs to the Arc the first day. Get it out of your system. It will get dark early in April, so take one of the Seine boat tours. Give your feet a break, and they are MUCH better after dark. The bateaux mooches leave from within walking distance of the Champs. And the morning and the evening were the first day.

I will try to get back to this if others don't pop in to help. But (1) Priceline is your friend as people have said and (2) lose Orleans. Giverny will be early but you can find out what is blooming before you make a decision. If it is rainy or you love cathedrals, then Chartres or easier, St Denis
Ackislander is offline  
Jun 14th, 2013, 02:06 AM
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If it were me I'd set my expectation targets for hotels down a bit and you will find some good deals

In London look out either the YHA hostel site (you can get rooms for two in most of these) or the commercial traveler style at Premier not bad accom but none of the extras will help free up some cash, after all with your busy plans you don't need great hotels

In Paris look out for French owned hotels in the 6th and 5 th ARR. , (look at google maps). You should be able to pick up good rooms in 2 or 3 star for £120 but if either of you are big people the showers may be a bit tight (generally older converted hotels have small showers for Europeans so the larger US male can have problems, note also that King size double beds in Europe are what Americans call Queen size etc

You need to read a couple of guide books and check the maps as others have said. April and May are good as there is less tourist pressure on these places but you may find Ireland and UK cold and wet still
bilboburgler is offline  
Jun 14th, 2013, 02:10 AM
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For London here is a list of budget hotels I made for my friends a couple of weeks ago:

• General rule is stay within the circle line in zone 1-2 on the tube
• We highly recommend staying in and around Covent Garden – this place is about as central as you can get:
• Also there are several great choices at Premier Inn (basic chain hotel, very clean, but no charm in the hotel – we have stayed at this chain many times and really like it) although don’t be tempted by the really cheap ones out of centre!!! The ONLY ones I would recommend are:|match|e|plid|
o Country Hall – excellent location right on the river from Westminster (Big Ben) and on the same side as the Eye
o Victoria – near to Buckingham Palace and easy transport to Gatwick if you are coming in from there
o Southwark (Borough Market) – in our favourite area of town, if you are coming in from Gatwick take the train to London Bridge and take a taxi as it’s a very short drive but will be a trek with bags over cobblestones etc
o London City (Tower Hill) – on the far eastern side of zone 1-2 right by the Tower. A bit of a trek if you want to see most sites on the western side of the city
• Other good affordable options are Ibis, again ONLY these locations:
o London Blackfriars – close to Southwark station so a taxi from London Bridge makes sense if you are coming from Gatwick
o London Southwark Rose – again a short taxi ride from London Bridge from the airport
• Or Novatel – ONLY these locations
o London Blackfriars – close to the Ibis London Blackfriars
o London Waterloo
o London City South
o London Tower Bridge
• Holiday Inn – ONLY these locations:
o London – Mayfair
o London – Southwark
o London – Victoria
o London – Oxford Circus
o London – Regent’s Park (Probably not the most convenient for transit)
o London – Bloomsbury
o London – Kensington Forum (great if most sites you want to see are west London)
jamikins is offline  
Jun 14th, 2013, 02:38 AM
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Assuming you will fly Shannon to London there is no need to move hotels from Limerick to Bunratty. Have 2 nights in the same place. Personally I would go for Ennis over Limmerick/Bunratty/Shannon and only be 30 minutes from the Airport.

Remember that you have regional flights in your plan and Baggage restrictions will be determined by the tightest allowance not what you are permitted Transatlantic.
Tony2phones is offline  
Jun 14th, 2013, 06:25 AM
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The Guinness brewery warehouse is a tourist trap. A nice one, but still more sales pitch than working brewery; the actual brewing occupies adjacent, and off-limits, buildings. On a clear day the glass observatory bar atop the warehouse offers a grand perspective over the city. For an admission of about $18 you get to drink one glass of the brown stuff. I preferred a bar on a lower level where the visitors are taught to pour a proper pint. Still the most expensive beer I've ever drunk, and that's saying something.
Southam is offline  
Jun 14th, 2013, 07:47 AM
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Don't cut the British Museum. You can't see the whole thing but take an hour or two for what's most interesting to you. I think the British Museum (which is free) is one of the major sights in London.

I hesitate to add anything but if you like old manuscripts, etc., you could sneak in the British Library the morning you leave for Paris. It's very near St. Pancras. Here's a link for the contents:

A major resource in London, universally recommended on this forum, is London Walks: They have any number of walks to the major sights and neighborhoods in London and some excursions outside the city. No need to reserve, just show up at the meeting point with £9/person There is also a Paris connection:

You should plan for cool rainy weather in all your destinations. You may want to adjust your itinerary according to the weather. Personally I never make itineraries for cities; I just make a list of things I want to see (and their opening hours) and pick from that list according to the weather and how we feel. I.e., feet tired from long day of walking yesterday, do boat tour. But you do need to have an idea of where things are. London is particularly spread out. So also spend a little time scoping out the transportation systems.
Mimar is offline  
Jun 14th, 2013, 08:33 AM
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An Aussie I met in Spain went to the Guinness brewery tour. At the end, he made a makeshift sign telling other visitors to place unused beer coupons "here." Then he and his buddy scooped them up and had more than the one "free" pint. One of the builders (you "build" a proper pint of Guinness) finally clocked what they were doing and, after indulging them a bit, told them to bugger off.

Back to useful info:

Star ratings for hotels in Europe are based on available amenities. Trip Advisor reviews work better - check out the crappy ones first so you can determine whether the bad ones come from general malcontents or contain serious issues.

The Changing of the Guards at Arlington is based upon military tradition with no concern for tourist entertainment because the guards are honoring the unknown soldiers who gave their lives for the USA. The Changing of the Guards at Buckingham has been a tourist entertainment for at least 26 years and is a mini-parade.
BigRuss is offline  
Jun 14th, 2013, 08:43 AM
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A weak dollar and higher prices.

Also don;t know where you are from. I am used to NYC prices and London is higher - esp for decent hotels. If you are used to prices in a small town - London probably will be 50% higher (just look at cost of tube, basic meals, etc)
nytraveler is offline  

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