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-   -   Initial itinerary - 1 month in Greece (https://www.fodors.com/community/europe/initial-itinerary-1-month-in-greece-1189333/)

yiassas Jan 23rd, 2017 01:46 AM

BTW, the wild greens are available everywhere, they just vary from place to place as to what grows there. As a general name, no matter which greens they are, it's called horta. Some can be quite a strong flavour, some a little bitter, my favourite is vlita,
http://www.kalofagas.ca/2014/12/09/a...E%CF%84%CE%B1/

kja Jan 23rd, 2017 02:03 AM

@ yiassas:

The Arcadian Gate has been added to my “must-see” list – thanks for the recommendation, and the inspiring photographs! It looks like some people were having a great time – no assumptions made about who is or is not a Fodorite. ;-)

I think I'm learning Greek words in good order: 1st, efcharistó! 2nd: horta. As one who seeks diverse experiences, horta sounds like something I will love. :-)

thursdaysd Jan 23rd, 2017 05:45 AM

I think you are right to be cautious about the Samaria Gorge. I did hike it, in 2006, and did the last part with both knees complaining bitterly. Happily they were OK the next day, but I would not attempt it now. (I was 59 at the time.)

Hiking just the bottom section is much more feasible, however, as best I remember that section is all rounded rocks, and difficult footing. Make sure you have good footwear, preferably with ankle support. In fact, that will be useful for Greece in general - lots of steps, many of them slippery.

TexasAggie Jan 23rd, 2017 11:07 AM

Hi kja,
I can't seem to find my own trip report from 2006 or 2009 that talked about the open access tholos tomb in the orange grove close to Tiryns, but here is a link with photos and general "how to find it" directions :-)

http://www.travbuddy.com/Tholos-Tomb-of-Tiryns-v816675

TexasAggie Jan 23rd, 2017 11:10 AM

Re: Nemean wineries, we just stopped in :). Our favorite was Palivou. We were traveling in early May and were the only visitors there at the time, but others arrived just as we were leaving.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attracti...loponnese.html

kja Jan 23rd, 2017 06:04 PM

@ thursdaysd: Thanks for confirming my impressions of the Samaria Gorge. And wow, I hadn’t thought about taking hiking boots with ankle support – I was planning on taking just good (but low) hiking shoes. Something to consider!


@ TexasAggie: Thanks so much for the directions to, and pictures of, the Tholos Tomb of Tiryns! (And BTW, I love the self-portrait. :-) ) I also really appreciate the winery recommendation – sounds like a delightful experience!

travelerjan Jan 23rd, 2017 08:18 PM

Doggone it Yiassas, you are right!! What a memorable day! I'd love to have a copy of one of those... you know that was the trip where I lost my camera (In Kerameikos of all places). I bought an Instamatic, but mourned the loss of pix of Petalida, Ancient Messini and Gialova -- but still cherish the memories!

kja Jan 23rd, 2017 08:34 PM

@ travelerjan: That certainly looked like a wonderfully memorable day! Although I didn't own a camera for my first few trips abroad, once I got one, I can't imagine how I would feel if I lost it. I'm glad you are able to cherish the memories!

kja Feb 14th, 2017 10:23 PM

The lodging I identified near ancient Messene, the Messana in Mavromati / Marommation, is described on booking.com as having no parking. I can’t imagine that being the case, but haven’t been able to confirm that I would have a place to park a car. I’m sure I’m overthinking – but if any of you have any insights, I would welcome it!

And of course, I remain open to other comments on my plans….

Thanks in advance!

Heimdall Feb 14th, 2017 11:24 PM

Most small guest house-type hotels don't have their own parking lots — people leave their cars on the street. I can't imagine how the guests would get there if there was nowhere to leave their cars.

There are six reviews on TripAdvisor, all giving the hotel a maximum of five stars. Only one is in English, but there is a Google Translation button on each review.

kja Feb 14th, 2017 11:38 PM

@ Heimdall: Thanks so much! For some reason, I'm only able to access one of the Greek reviews on TripAdvisor, but all the reviews I found anywhere were very complimentary. I suspected that the parking situation was what you describe, particularly upon review of a close-up on Google maps. As I said, I'm undoubtedly overthinking.... Many thanks for your reassurances!

Heimdall Feb 15th, 2017 12:10 AM

Just ask at the hotel where to leave your car. If there is nowhere directly in front of the hotel you should be able to stop long enough to unload your luggage. Wherever you park, always leave enough room on the narrow roads and streets for trucks and buses to get by.

On the version of TripAdvisor I am looking at there is only one review (in English) on display, but when you click the "All Languages" button all six appear. Now that I have done that I see there are five Excellent ratings and one Very Good. With such a variety of nationalities I'm confident the reviews are genuine. I hope the view from the hotel is as good as this, from a taverna we had lunch at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/heimda...7627739427148/

Here is the rest of my Messenia album: https://www.flickr.com/photos/heimda...57627739427148

Recommend stopping at the little monastery in my photos near the Ancient Messene site. The monks are very friendly!

kja Feb 15th, 2017 04:42 PM

Thanks again, Heimdall! In an odd coincidence, the hotel responded today to a message that I had sent to them days ago, and they confirmed our suspicion: Parking is available on the street. I’m very pleased, as this little hotel does seem perfect for my needs. As you noted, the tripadvisor reviews (I hadn’t realized that I had checked only some languages) are very favorable, as are those on booking.com. I hope the views are as nice as those from your taverna -- and if not, I'll look for that place. :-)

Thanks, too, for sharing your Messenia album. I’m struck by some of the similarities between Ancient Messene and Ephesus. Can you tell me the location of the little church you visited just before Ancient Messene?

Heimdall Feb 16th, 2017 10:51 AM

Hi kja, the monastery is called Voulkano, and is just east of the village of Mavrommati where you will be staying when you visit Ancient Messene. The hotel will tell you haw to get there. If yiassas sees this post she will be able to give more accurate directions, because it was in her car that I was riding.

Heimdall Feb 16th, 2017 11:03 AM

Kja, if you have Google Earth on your computer, type in Moni Voulkanou in the search box, and it will fly you there. You can also zoom in and have a look at Ancient Messene and the village of Mavrommati.

kja Feb 16th, 2017 01:03 PM

@ Heimdall: Moni Voulkanou duly added to my notes. Efcharisto!

HappyTrvlr Feb 21st, 2017 08:54 AM

Some more thoughts in no particular order:
Arkadi Monastery: the Holocaust that occurred there in late 1800s , priest, warriors, women and children blew themselves up with dynamite rather than be under Ottoman rule, made for a very poignant visit. There is a memorial to see there.
Also on Crete,not too far from Arkadi, the pottery village of Margarites. There are many touristic shops but an excellent potter and shop is owned by Giorgios Dalamvelas, a third generation potter. His shop is in a beautiful restored building that stands out from the others. I bought quite a few of his beautiful pieces.
Our Greek friends suggested we buy a copy of "The Cretan Runner" which we found in Chania. It is written by a shepherd, who ran behind the lines as a boy in WWII, through the mountains, for the British Army from German Occupation to Liberation. Recommended.
Nemea: Gates were padlocked to stadium, walked around it, slipped and fell on a bush full of rusty barbed wire.Be careful. Several hours in the Napflion ER gave me a stitched up arm ,an experience to remember and a bill for 3€.
I could spend weeks in Naplion. Chania and Napflion are both so beautiful.
Practicing the Greek alphabet in advance was very helpful.
Local friends sent us to Kafeneio in the Kolonaki neighborhood, Loukenou,26, of Athens for dinner. It is a traditional taverna in a very nice setting with delicious food, out of tourist fray.
After traveling the world, Greece still tugs at out heartstrings.

brotherleelove2004 Feb 21st, 2017 10:13 AM

"Day 9: Morning ferry to Santorini – visit Akrotiri, walk part of the caldera ridge and explore some of the villages, sunset, 1 night in Santorini"

To have any hope at all of accomplishing this leg of your journey you're going to have to rent a car at the ferry port so you don't waste time. Drive directly to Akrotiri, which is on the south end of the island and not very far from the ferry port. After Akrotiri you can locate your hotel, check in, then make your way to the area of the caldera rim that's walkable. The trail begins in Fira and ends about 3 hours later in Oia. If you're staying in Oia you can walk towards Fira and get off the trail about halfway, where the trail returns to the main road at the little snack bar, and take the next bus back to Oia or continue on to either Imerovigli, Firostefani or Fira before returning to Oia for the sunset. (Buses are frequent and Taxis are available.) Or, since the best sunset views are from Imerovigli you can check into a hotel there, walk to Oia then take the bus back to Imerovigli in time for the sunset. But I think having a car waiting for you at the ferry port is essential for this to succeed.

kja Feb 21st, 2017 03:30 PM

@ HappyTrvlr:

OMG! While I admit that I seek diverse experiences when traveling, I am more than happy to forego medical emergencies! I hope your tetanus shot was up to date – and I just confirmed that mine is. ;-) That Greece still tugs at your heartstrings despite this experience speaks volumns.

The Arkadi Monastery is firmly on my itinerary, but I hadn’t taken prior note of Margarites and will take a look. Thanks for bringing the village and potter to my attention!

Nor had I known of <i>The Cretan Runner</i> -- sounds interesting! I just ordered it on Kindle.

I’ve begun practicing transliteration with homemade “flash cards” and am on lesson 8 of Pimsleur’s Greek One. I don’t expect to be able to carry on a conversation, but maybe I can at least be civil.

And thanks for the dinner recommendation – I’ve taken some notes, but haven’t yet tackled that part of my planning. Efcharistó!


@ Brotherleelove2004:

Thanks for bringing this potential snag to my attention! Some additional information might be useful: Thanks to marigross’s trip report, I booked at Aethrio in Oia, which has a small, private roof deck from which guests can see the sunset without having to negotiate crowds. :-) Sunset should be at about a quarter after 8, so I’ve been thinking that if I get to the roof (with a glass of wine) by a little before 8, I should be OK.

With that “plan” in mind, my hope had been to take a taxi from the ferry port to the hotel, check in, and then leave ASAP for Akrotiri. I haven’t fully researched my transportation options, but was considering taking a bus to Fira, bus to Akrotiri, and buses back, stopping as time permits at the museum in Fira. I read somewhere that it might be best to visit Akrotiri later, rather than earlier, so that I maximimze my time there after cruise-ship passengers leave (but not so late that I miss sunset). And I thought that if I paid careful attention to the time, I could get off the bus somewhere between Fira and Oia to walk a part of the ridge.

BUT, of course, what seems to work on paper often doesn’t, so I would welcome your comments and suggestions. Thanks again!

brotherleelove2004 Feb 21st, 2017 05:02 PM

I use this nifty website that shows me the direction of the sunset for any time of year and I'm sorry to tell you that between that website and after looking at all the photos on the Aethrio website as well as all the posted guest photos on booking.com and tripadvisor.com I'm almost 100% sure that my initial suspicion is correct. No sunset view from the Aethrio in late-May/early-June. Also, if you don't go to Akrotiri first you will be wasting a lot of time in transit, as Oia is on the north tip of the island and Akrotiri is on the south tip. This puts them about 45 minutes apart. So if you go to Oia first by taxi that'll take about an hour with check-in included, then you have to go back to Fira, another 25 minutes or so, to wait for the next bus to Akrotiri, another 25 minutes. The ferry port is just 20 minutes from Akrotiri. If you contact Vazeos Car Rental in Oia you can ask for a pickup at the ferry port and go to Akrotiri first, locking your luggage in the car. When you're finished there you can take your time returning to Oia, maybe take a side trip to one of the black sand beaches or stop in Fira for a look-see, then continue the rest of the way to Oia to your hotel. You can either drop off your car at Vazeos that same day or if you've arranged it, use it to take you back to the ferry port for your ferry to Naxos. Also, Spiridakos Car Rental has an office at the port if you want to drop it off the next day on your way out.

You can walk along the trail from Oia towards Fira as far as you like, with the understanding that the first place you can leave the trail is at that snack bar I mentioned, which is about 3 miles from the hiking trailhead in Oia.

Map of Santorini: http://www.motorinn.gr/santorini-map

The only time you could possibly avoid crowds at Akrotiri would be 8am, first thing in the morning. It's actually wonderful then. Otherwise, by the time you plan to get there it will be crowded. It's not just the cruise ship passengers that keep it busy. Here's another idea: Your ferry to Naxos doesn't leave until mid-day, so maybe you could go there on your way to Naxos. This would free up your first day to do whatever you wanted. Just a thought.

kja Feb 21st, 2017 06:03 PM

@ brotherleelove2004:

OMG, what a lot of information to process! I can’t thank you enough for providing it, even if my initial reactions are all “yes, but” -- I really need to sit down and give some thought to what you say!

I absolutely abhor crowds, and seriously considered skipping Santorini entirely, but decided that Akrotiri was a sufficient enticement, particularly once I concluded (if falsely) that I would be able to see the sunset from my hotel. I thought: How can I skip the chance to see Santorini, with its iconic images of this part of Greece? But I may just have wine on the Aethrio’s terrace even if I can’t see the sunset. I need to give it some thought. Again, many thanks – with your input, I can make a decision based on the facts. I would have hated assuming that I would see the sunset from that hotel, and then finding that I couldn’t!

You make a compelling case for renting a car, and I truly appreciate this information. If I’m understanding, you are pointing me to two different car rental companies: One in Oia (Vazeos, with which I should be able to arrange a ferry port pickup and return in Oia), and one in the port (Spiridakos, where I could rent upon arrival and return upon departure). Did I get that right?

If I decide to go straight from the port to Akrotiri – and I do appreciate your logic on the timing! -- I take it that you would recommend a car rental rather than a hired taxi, and wonder if you would comment on your reasoning….

If I decide to forego the sunset AND forego a rental car or taxi, I still think I could visit Akrotiri and the museum in Fira by public transportation. As it turns out, I actually enjoy taking local transportation. But maybe I am still misunderstanding the logistics?

Sadly, I am NOT a morning person. I sometimes force myself to do something early (which to me means before 10 a.m. or so) if it truly is an extraordinary, not otherwise available option, but I find doing so decidedly unpleasant and therefore do so only as a last resort. Trying to do something I consider a very high priority that early, with my eye on the clock, would likely be stressful from my perspective. If I put anything off to the last day, it would be hiking anywhere along the ridge.

(I think I warned you that I’d be saying “yes, but…”? Please understand that I do appreciate your comments and will keep thinking through what they mean for me!)

One last question (for now): when you speak of the snackbar about 3 miles from the hiking trailhead in Oia, does that mean that if I do follow my original plan, and try to get off a bus to hike a bit before reaching Oia, is that snackbar a bus stop at which I could get off, and is that the last of the places the bus would let me off? Really, I’m just looking for a scenic and not particularly strenuous hike of about 1.5 to 2 miles. I’m still recovering from an injury, and don’t want to risk a re-injury that early in my trip….

Efcharistó, brotherleelove2004 – your input is proving invaluable!

Heimdall Feb 21st, 2017 07:12 PM

<i>"But I may just have wine on the Aethrio’s terrace even if I can’t see the sunset."</i>

That's exactly what I do, and you can watch the colours change on the whitewashed buildings as the sun sets (a bit like Uluru in the Northern Territory, if you've ever been there). Frankly there are lots of places to watch the sun dip into the sea in Greece, so you don't have to join the crowds in Oia to see it.

brotherleelove2004 Feb 21st, 2017 07:28 PM

Firstly, you will enjoy Santorini's unique beauty in spite of any crowds you might encounter.

Yes, you understood my suggestions correctly regarding renting a car. My reasoning for the car is for you to make the best use of your time as well as having a safe place to store your things if you go to Akrotiri from the ferry port.

Yes, you can accommplish your goal of visiting Akrotiri and Fira's museum by using public transportation. I just want to make sure you realize you'll be spending a lot of time backtracking if you go to Oia first before you head south to Akrotiri. By the way, it's closed Mondays. So is the Museum. You'll be glad to know that the Museum is just uphill from the bus terminal in Fira. Can't miss it.

Yes, the bus will let you off at the snack bar as long as you let them know as you approach. This is the snack bar: http://tinyurl.com/j5jro8h As the bus gets close you'll pass the San Antonio Hotel on the left up a hill. The "Snack Shop" is about 1/4 mile further on.

kja Feb 21st, 2017 07:52 PM

@ Heimdall:

Thanks for your reassurances -- they are much appreciated! I plan to see the sunset from Cape Sounio, and perhaps another place or two while in Greece, so maybe those experiences will meet my desire to see a glorious Greek sunset (not that any can be guaranteed!).

I haven't been to Uluru yet, but hope to do so one day. (Spectacular, yes?) But you remind me that one of the most spectacular sunsets I've ever seen didn't let me glimpse the sun at all -- instead, I watched the light changing on the mountains outside of Salzburg, with different cliffs and crannies coming into, and disappearing from, view with each changing moment. The scenery on Santorini will, of course, be different, but as you note, the chance to appreciate the changing light will be there whether I can see the sun or not. And the views of buildings cascading down the cliffs of Santorini are one of my reasons for going! Maybe I'll appreciate them even more for being able to focus on them, instead of looking at (and being blinded by) the sun. :-)

You've helped me think of my "back up" as an especially wonderful experience. Thanks so much!

kja Feb 21st, 2017 08:04 PM

@ brotherleelove2004:

We were posting at the same time! (Or rather, I was composing and posting a different response while you posted.)

Once again, I thank you for your patient and detailed responses!

While I have some choices to make, I now have confidence that I have a few different options that will allow me to see and experience my highest priorities for Santorini in just one short 24-or-so-hour period. :-)

I am incredibly fortunate to be part of the Fodorite community and to be able to call upon people like you who so generously share your knowledge and expertise. Many, many thanks!

Heimdall Feb 21st, 2017 10:45 PM

Hi kja,

Yes, Uluru is spectacular, both at sunrise and sunset and I've seen them both. Everyone looks at the monolith instead of the sun, and that's what reminded me of the colour changes on Santorini. If you do go there, take a tour with the local Anangu tribe, traditional owners of Uluru and Kata Tjuta.

If you get to Paros (I can't remember all the stops on your itinerary), take at least a day trip to Antiparos and hang around until the evening. Sunset beach on the western (obviously) edge of town has the same views as Santorini without the crowds. I have become rather blasé about it, but you can sit at a table in the taverna there and have a drink at normal island prices while you watch the sun disappear into the sea. Some of my friends go there every evening.

brotherleelove2004 Feb 22nd, 2017 05:14 AM

I should mention that for me the best place in Oia to watch the sunset is up at the little chapel at the beginning of the hiking trail between Oia and Fira. http://tinyurl.com/jxdc95t

Chances are very good that you'll be alone and not surrounded by the hordes that populate all the vantage points in the village itself.

kja Feb 22nd, 2017 04:01 PM

@ Heimdall: I look forward to the day when I can see Uluru at either sunrise OR sunset! It sounds like your have some very special memories of your time there. :-) And it sounds like you have some very fortunate friends in Antiparos.

@ brotherleelove: Oooh, that little chapel looks perfect – and the walk to it from the Aethrio might suit my interest in a reasonably short and manageable walk! Efcharistó!

brotherleelove2004 Feb 22nd, 2017 04:39 PM

Walk along the main road towards Fira. At the outskirts of Finikia, the small settlement on the edge of Oia, you'll see this small bus stop and next to it a flight of steps that leads up to that little chapel. http://tinyurl.com/zkwzqlg

kja Feb 22nd, 2017 04:56 PM

@ brotherleelove2004: You are awesome! :-) :-)

kja Mar 5th, 2017 07:53 PM

Oh, no! Another thread (by LeslieC) has made me rethink my plan for Santorini, and I'm hoping one or more of you will offer your advice:

Instead of staying at the Aethrio in Oia, I'm thinking of staying at one of the Smaro Studios in Firostephani. It looks like my views would be better in general (although I might still opt for that place that brotherleelove shared). I wouldn't have a pool, but that isn't a big deal for me. It seems that there is parking near the studio in Firostephani, and now that brotherleelove has convinced me that a rental is a good deal for both time and money, that would seem to be an advantage.

Thoughts?

(Thanks for your patience with all my questions -- much appreciated!)

kja Jul 28th, 2017 05:32 PM

I’ve finally started my trip report. Any of you who are interested can find it here:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-in-greece.cfm


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