TwoTravelers

In an earlier post this week I ask for recommendations about driving in a single day on September 20 from Garmisch, G. to Interlaken, S. After reaching Liechtenstein should we drive (#1) west toward Luzern and south to Interlaken, or (#2) south through Chur and over the Oberal and Grimelsel passes to Interlaken? Ingo said the southern route including the Furka pass is too slow and long, and recommended driving the northern route via Luzern. Tell me more about driving these mountain passes. Are the passes steep, narrow and slow, and add far more time to our day trip than driving the northern route?

Ingo

Hi again TwoTravellers,

Will you have a vignette (sticker for the motorways, 40 Sfr.?). If not, you must drive the main roads, and both northern and southern routes are slow.

If yes, the northern route is much quicker. And for the southern route you could use the motorways from Liechtenstein south to Reichenau (next exit past Chur). That is 50 km on the motorway, approx. a half hour.

The southern route continues from Reichenau (elevation 600 m) via Flims (1100 m) and Ilanz (700 m) to Disentis (1100 m), 50 km, ca. one hour. Many villages, the road in good condition, not too narrow, but sometimes windy. Expect trucks and farmers with their vehicles on the road.

From Disentis to Sedrun (1400 m) the road is rather narrow and windy. Then the valley opens, becomes wide and in the hamlet Tschamut (1600 m) you start the ascent to Oberalp pass (2040 m). This part is steep and has some 180? curves. Not too narrow. But expect hords of cyclists. For these 23 km from Disentis you should calculate at least a half hour w/o any photo stops (and there are enough opportunities along the pass road!).

The road down to Andermatt (1440 m) is quite enjoyable, only the last part is windy. Some km later, in Realp, starts the ascent to Furka pass (2431 m). This part is quite steep and windy. You shoud calculate a full hour from Oberalp Pass to Furka pass.

The road down to Gletsch (1700 m) is again very windy (with gorgeous views). A stop at Hotel Belvedere and a short walk (5 min) to the Rhone glacier (ice grotto) is a must. The road up to the Grimsel pass (2165 m) is practically one curve followed by the other. Partly steep and narrow with amazing views of the Furka pass. For these 16 km you should calculate another half hour.

The road down from the Grimsel pass to Innertkirchen is wide, less windy and relaxing IMO. From there to Interlaken it is quite easy, mostly flat, but the drive through villages takes time. For the last 60 km you should calculate 1.5 hours, if you take the motorway Brienz - Interlaken maybe little more than an hour.

All these calculations are w/o foto stops, lunch break or coffee break. The roads are in perfect condition, but you should know that the passes are favourite routes for bikers and cyclers. That and farmers with their vehicles will slow down your speed.

I would probably make the decision when in Liechtenstein. If you reach Liechtenstein at noon or 1 pm you could dare to drive the southern route IMO.

Ingo

Phil

TwoTravelers:

So you have already driven 108 miles from Garmisch to Vaduz (estimated time by Viamichelin: 2 h 28 min) and want to reach Interlaken the same evening.

Your intended plan to drive via Chur and three (THREE!!!) alpine passes will add 138 miles (with only 28 on motorways) at an estimated driving time of 4 h 16 min.

Ingo's recommendation adds 124 miles, 75 of those on motorways, and one alpine pass at an estimated driving time of 2 h 34 min.

Following your southern route, you will be knackered! How many days have you planned to recover from this trek?

Believe me: you DO NOT want to drive Oberalp, Furka and Grimsel at the end of a long day (or on a single day for the matter of it). Yes, these passes are in certain places steep, narrow and winding. If you do not know the roads, you do definitevely not want to drive them in the dark.

You can trust Ingo on questions like these.

Hope this helps making your mind up.

Enjoy your trip (but don't overdo it)

Phil.

bob_brown

My wife drove over all 3 passes in a single day as part of a day excursion from Lauterbrunnen. And we have been over the Grimsel when driving to Saas Grund. Doing all 3 in a single day was fine for her, at age 65. She is no tardy driver either.

The Grimsel as you approach from Innertkirchen is steep, but well switchbacked. The scenery turns almost Himalayan on you, particularly near the Hospiz where you can park and take a hike of almost any distance you select.

The descent of the Grimsel on the Rhonegletscher side is equally winding, but with good tires, and, particuclarly, a manual transmsission, you can control your descent quite well.

Under those conditions I prefer a 6 speed manual; that extra gear gives you a better choice of ratios. On a 5 speed, I sometimes find that 2nd gear is too low, thus causing high engine rpms while 3rd gear is too high and makes you heat up the brakes. And deliver me from most automatic slush pumps on a mountain road!

(Once in Lausanne at the rental agency, the young lady thought she was doing us a favor by giving us a free upgrade of an Opel Vectra with an automatic transmission. I told her I would like a manual shift. Her response, "Americans want automatics." We took the automatic when the choice was either it or a car with a 1.2 liter engine. I am quite positive I would not want a 1.2 liter engine going up the Grimsel or the Furka. I guess we are sterotyped --we eat ketchup and cannot drive manual shifts.)

The Furka is a winding, steep, twisting pass. I thought it the most severe of the 3. It is well engineered, and a thrill to drive. The scenery is awesome, but the driver sees little of it.

The Susten, after the Furka, is a piece of cake. It is beautiful, but the ascent from the Andermatt side is relatively gradual.

You end up returning to Innertkirchen, from where you can go to Meiringen and then either to Interlaken and on to Spiez, or to Sarnen and on to Luzern.

My wife's comment: "They are not easy passes, but they are not tough either. You just have to use good sense when driving."

The most bothersome aspect of the Grimsel and the Furka was not the bicycle riders but the motorcycle daredevils. They like to see how fast they can take the curves, often leaning over at angles that looks like they are 50? from vertical. If a rider misses one, I don't think we would see him/her again.

It would be a case of "Look out below."

Ingo

Hi Phil, nice to hear from you!

Bob, did you realize that TT doesn't want to drive a short circle from Lauterbrunnen across the three passes? And he doesn't include the Susten (which is the easiest) but the Oberalp instead. Before he arrives at the foot of the first pass he will be tired from driving!

TwoTravelers

Thanks for your replies. It sounds like the southern route will be more than what we wish to attempt. One Swiss mountain pass would be Ok, but several like described in a day long trip is a bit much! That said we'll head west from Sargans below Leichtenstein towards Luzern. The roadmap shows near Feusisberg a highway turns south to Schwyz, Altdorf, and Wassen, then west over Sustenpass to Meiringen and Interlaken. Would this route provide the one scenic pass we would like to do, or does this still sound like too much to accomplish from Garmisch to Interlaken?

bob_brown

I simply reported my experience.
He could change his route.
So what's the problem?

Phil

TwoTravelers:

The route Vaduz-Schwyz-Altdorf-Susten-Interlaken adds up to 147 mi, 52 on motorways. Viamichelin estimates a driving time of 3 h 52 min.

Though, as Ingo remarks, the Susten pass is the easiest one of the four considered, I still think it unwise to attempt it at the end of a day after having driven a total of 211 miles from Garmisch to the foot of the pass.

Phil.

Ingo

I agree with Phil. Beside all the calculation, it depends on the weather if it is worth the detour. So what if you decide when on the motorway by Lake Zurich? I personally would take the shortest route via Luzern. But maybe you are a driving enthusiast?

I think you'll have enough time to see the Alps during your stay in Interlaken, eh?

Phil

Another option would be to turn south at Wollerau/Feusisberg, drive to Gersau on Lake Lucerne and take the ferry across to Beckenried. Continue from there to Stans and join Ingo's proposed route near Sarnen. This would give you some scenery on lake Lucerne and a few minutes' pause.

Enjoy your trip

Phil.

TwoTravelers

From TwoTravelers: Thanks for the replies, we're about to give up on our dream of going over a Swiss moutnain top! Unless something changes we'll go west to Luzern, and south to Interlaken for our 4 days in that area. Phil said from Garmisch to Vaduz, Liechtenstein its 128 miles (2 h, 28m) which could be a good time to stop. We would like to say we did somtehing in Liechtenstein. Any suggestions for a 2-3 hour stop in or near Vaduz?

flygirl

I am very curious:

for cars which travel at such high altitudes, do they allow for a means to lean the engines?

or do they tune them differently.

such a rich mixture could be troublesome!

Sue_xx_yy

Two Travelers

I would forget the 2 or 3 hours in Vaduz - Phil's plan sounds most interesting if you have time. When we did a similar itinerary, we spent the first day driving from the Fussen area in Germany to Appenzell; the next day meandered (via a cheese factory) to Andermatt for lunch and then drove the Sustenpass to Meiringen; the third day we drove the three passes (repeating the Sustenpass) and thence to Murren (via Interlaken.) This made for a leisurely 3 days but my point is that 2 days, rather than 1, would be your minimal time estimate for both the commute to Interlaken and your driving of mountain roads.

If it is truly a dream for you to drive a Swiss mountain road, and you are spending 4 days in Interlaken, it would be an easy day trip from Interlaken to drive the 3 passes.

mikemo

If you have never investigated the benefits of Turbo deisel, supercharged (Kompresssor), and/or huge displacement autos or driven/ridden "Bikes", nor read John Hermann's "Motorcycle Journeys through the Alps", perhaps you should not be there.
M