Independent trip to Italy

Old Mar 11th, 2013, 10:50 AM
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What suze said.

I think you might find it more economical to stay in Florence and take a couple of day trips into Tuscany. I think the cost of renting two vehicles for a week may be prohibitive to a small budget.

In my humble opinion, you do no justice to Florence with one day.

Perhaps something like this:

Fly into Venice. Spend 3 nights.
Train to Florence. Spend 3 nights.
Bus to Siena. Spend 3 nights, using one full day in Siena and renting vehicles for the other 2 days. Explore the Umbria and Tuscan areas on those two days.
Train to Rome. Finish the trip there. Depart from Rome.

I think that may be the most frugal plan. But that is just my opinion. I'm sure you'll get more.

You want to make sure you "experience" Italy, not just see it to say you've seen it. Trying to squeeze too much into this one trip will not leave you with fun/good memories of your trip; it will leave you with one big blur of memoy and possibly one or two "moments".

Good luck!
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Old Mar 11th, 2013, 10:50 AM
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*memory
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Old Mar 11th, 2013, 11:39 AM
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Hi. We spent two weeks in Italy last June. It was amazing .we used free tickets on SWA to get to Newark, then flew Continental for about 950 each. Spent 3 days in Rome using Priority Club points. We took a train to a city an hour from Tuscany and rented a car. We stayed in a wonderful place Castillo di Spaltenna for a week. I can't imaging driving a huge van there...yikes! Anyway, we took day trips to Siena and Florence. Florence was a nightmare for parking, btw. We left and drove car to Venice, dropped it at airport and shuttled to an airport hotel. We took the local bus to the city daily. It was much cheaper and easier to get to airport. I think two full days in Venice was plenty. Maybe you can find a little B&B who will give you a group rate in Tuscany area.
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Old Mar 12th, 2013, 07:52 AM
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Staying in Venice proper (not Mestre, not the Lido, not the airport) does cost a little more but adds so much to your experience. It really is a unique city, and uniquely beautiful. Especially so in the morning and at night when the daytrippers are gone. I'm not surprised mhsh thought 2 days were plenty, daytripping in from an airport hotel. Why fly all that way and then cheat yourselves of the real experience?
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Old Mar 12th, 2013, 10:54 AM
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>>>Do you think the 2 flight thing is risky if we get a flight into NYC in the early morning and have the flight out to Rome be at night. We don't mind hanging out in the airport all day in NYC. It is at least a $2800 savings to do it this way in some cases. I will try though to find cheap flights out of ATL.
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Old Mar 12th, 2013, 11:54 AM
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You are getting tons of excellent advice from some of the most experienced travellers on this site. You have plenty of time for reseach, which is fun, to plan your trip.

StCirq: "And don't get hung up on Tuscany, either. As I mentioned previously, it's the most expensive real estate in Italy, along with the Amalfi Coast. There are PLENTY of other places in Italy with gorgeous scenery and nature where you could save a lot of money!"

Jamikins: "Honestly Tuscany is beautiful...but it is not the be all end all...it is much more expensive than the places I named above...if you are on a budget the other places are just as beautiful, and everything from accommodations to restaurants are cheaper...they just aren't as well known to Americans..."

StCirq and Jamikins are both so right. Books and movies have made it popular and, therefore, more expensive. So many places are just as beautiful.

OP: "This is a once in a lifetime experience and we want to see all that we can." Sometimes that makes it a blur rather than an experience.

Suze: "Many first-time planners make this mistake. Quantity is not quality. You will not end up with a "better" trip because you tried to see 10 places, in a timeframe that would better accomodate only 3-4 stops."

I won't quote Sarge56's whole post, but it is excellent.

IMHO, two weeks does not give you enough time for Venice, Florence and Rome plus a week in Tuscany. At the most, you could spend 4/5 days in Tuscany (or another rural area).

Also, a car would be nice, but not necessary if you limit your bases to those served by train with lots of good day trips. You could cut costs of your budget by not renting cars, etc. or just renting one for a couple of days for a trip into the countryside.

Venice, Florence and Rome are well connected by train and all could include lots of easy, wonderful day trips.

Some examples:
From Florence: Siena, Lucca, Pisa
From Venice: the islands, Padova, Vicenza
From Rome: Ostia Antica, Orvieto

The Amalfi Coast is expensive and would work only if you gave up the idea of Tuscany or one other city.

Don't feel you will be cheated by not doing the "farmhouse" thing or anything else, for that matter. I've not found any place in Italy that was not interesting or beautiful and worth visiting.
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Old Mar 12th, 2013, 12:01 PM
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Thanks, Sass. I had long ago given up spitting into the wind. Having a budget of only X but having to stay in Y is often impossible, but it doesn't mean sacrificing a wonderful trip.
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Old Mar 12th, 2013, 06:45 PM
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I must be missing something. I have read 3 Fodor travel books now and read several articles on Slowtrav.com and they are all pointing me to stay in Tuscany for a week near the Chianti region specifically for my first trip to Italy. Also, as I took literally the whole weekend to look up different farmhouses in the different areas from Tuscany to Puglia to Umbria, to the other places listed above surrounding Tuscany. They are all beautiful for sure, but I didn't really find a huge difference in price. I found several beautiful ones that were in the $1700 range for the whole week for all 7 of us.

Has anyone heard of Bob the Navigator. He mentions that it is much cheaper to stay in places for a week and that he recommends renting a car to do so to cut budget costs.

I am confused by the conflicting information. Slowtrav and Bob the Navigator were recommended by someone above. Are they not reputable sites and the Fodor books too?
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Old Mar 12th, 2013, 06:50 PM
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Oh and thank you for all of the advice on where to stay when. It is priceless. We will do that for sure.
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Old Mar 12th, 2013, 07:29 PM
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Of course we've all heard of Bob The Navigator. He's been posting on Fodors and other sites for as long as many of the rest of us, me included. The point is...and I just can't understand why you can't get this...that ALL guidebooks and ALL travel agents and ALL websites will say...spend a week in Tuscany, BECAUSE IT IS THE CLICHÉ destination. You DO NOT HAVE TO DO THIS to find a beautiful, scenic, natural place to be in Italy. You can be in Puglia. You can be in the Maremma. You can be in inland Liguria. You can be somewhere near Ravenna or in the lake district or the Dolomites or any of COUNTLESS places in Italy that cost HALF of what Tuscany (which is really the total cliché abut Italy anyway) costs.

Why don't you just post a separate post here on Fodors if getting in touch with Bob is so important to you?

And do some independent research. In 2010 my daughter and I rented a gorgeous 2-bedroom loft in an apartment with kitchen, small living/dining room, one double bed in a loft and one double sofa-sleepout for 300 euros a week at IdealeVacanze just outside Paciano in Umbria. Several pools, gym, gorgeous scenery, really lovely owners who lived across the street. Had a little patio in front, as did everyone else, and at night when we were all out there we got to know each other. Villa in Tuscany? Far cry from it, but it fit our budget and was delightful. You need to work with the budget you have or get a bigger one. Or realize that your "ideal" is unrealizable with your budget. And that's my final word on this. You could make this happen, but you seem not to want to. So arrevederci e auguri!
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Old Mar 12th, 2013, 08:47 PM
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Slowtrav is very reputable. Bob is very knowledgeable. Fodor's books are good. The advice and information is not as conflicting as it may seem to you. Each may be great, depending on how it is applied to your situation.

Yes, for a group or family, renting an apartment rather than hotel rooms in a city usually saves money, plus you can do some cooking. Renting out in the country where you have to drive everywhere may not save money because you must have a car to get anywhere.

A car saves money if you are using it to tour yourself around the countryside rather than hiring a driver and taking guided tours. However, it may or may not save money over trains. That depends on the size of the group and the cost of the train versus the cost of gas, tolls, parking, car rental.

Guide books are limited in how many places they can describe. They include major stuff and areas that are already most popular with tourists because they do not have space to include lots of areas that are still less touristed, no matter how wonderful those areas are.

Don't forget, everybody's advice is based on their experience along with personal tastes, interests, etc. Read a lot of posts by someone and you get to know whose advice you can trust. Some people who post here live in Europe or spend half their time there, or at least weeks every summer. I trust them more than most guide books.

BTW, Kybourbon gave you great flight advice. Actually, so far, you've gotten great advice from everyone, including apartment rental, costs of things and driving.

You are not going for another year. Your plans may change a half dozen times before you make them final.
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Old Mar 12th, 2013, 09:09 PM
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Re: Tuscany, this is not exactly rocket science. Tuscany is, for many reasons, the first choice of a taste of the Italian countryside, for many, many travelers. That is why you see it featured so prominently. Its popularity has led to many places, many rentals, becoming more expensive than similar properties in other regions of Italy, also in the beautiful countryside. This is why people are telling you to keep an open mind and perhaps consider renting a villa elsewhere - more bang for your buck, in other words. If you have your heart set on Tuscany, and do find a rental in your budget, by all means go and enjoy.
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Old Mar 12th, 2013, 11:52 PM
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tuscany is by far the most popular destination and I have found that this makes it the most covered and recommended area because the more people that go the more is written about it and the more guidebooks cover it. We had a lovely time in puglia last year but I still can't find a guidebook that covers it in English...because there isn't a demand because most people have never heard or considered it - mostly because Tuscany is shoved down everyone's throats. Umbria, puglia, le march, emilia Romano are all great but there are vet few books written snout the in English.

If you go to slowtrav and look at other areas for vacation rentals you will find many recommendations. Not nearly as many as Tuscany, but you will find some.

There are many trip reports here as well, do a search for Umbria as there are some extensive ones. If you click my name you will find our Italian one covering le marche and puglia last year.
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Old Mar 12th, 2013, 11:56 PM
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Also, it's not just the rental that will be cheaper...the cost of everything is cheaper...restaurants are a steal in le marche compared to Tuscany!
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Old Mar 17th, 2013, 06:19 AM
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Ok, so the goal is still to take a day trip to Florence, so when looking at apartments in Umbria, how far away would you recommend staying? I was thinking no longer than an hour. Umbria is listed in a few places as the "New Tuscany." I am wondering if as a result the prices there are escalating a bit. I am finding difficulty getting a much better price there.

Also, please remember I have never been to Italy and am posting on this forum to get your help. Most of you have been extremely helpful.

The type of landscape that I would love to be around are rolling hills - as far as the eye can see, vineyards, and olive orchards, cute towns and vineyards to visit (NOT lakes, towns on a hill, coastal areas or signs of any human life whatsoever). So, are there areas that you know of that are like that? We have been able to figure out a way to make our budget $20,000 with the advice of many of you, and the budget from Bob the Navigator.

So our plan is Venice (3 days), Tuscany/Umbria (7 days - renting 2 cars with a day trip in there to Florence), and then Rome (4 days).
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Old Mar 17th, 2013, 07:50 AM
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We stayed here in 2007 with our family if 7 adults and it was ver reasonably priced
http://www.agrisantamaria.it/

It was away in the countryside but class to a small village. We did day trips to Orvieto, Todi, Assisi, Southern tuscany etc. It is likely too far for Florence but gives you an idea of what you can find in Umbria.
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Old Mar 17th, 2013, 08:23 AM
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Bob the navigator basically planned my first trip to Italy. We stayed outside of Sienna at a wonderful agritourismi and took day trips all around - like a wagon wheel. to just name a few locatins: Bounconvento, St. Antimony abbey, Montigiioni, , San gminigano, Montepulciano, we also did the Chianti trail and enjoyed Radda a lot. Florence was a day trip as well. I am trying to find the link to the place we stayed. It was inexpensive and had many rooms around a beautiful garden. I think you will be happy anywhere in the region. I wouldn't feel locked in to a specific area. We commented as we drove all over that there were many other smaller towns that we would have been happy to stay in. I think you are getting good advice , especially from KY bourbon. I am relying on his advice for our current trip to rome and Venice. Enjoy!
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