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In your opinion, was this handled properly?

In your opinion, was this handled properly?

Old Jun 1st, 2011, 10:23 AM
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In your opinion, was this handled properly?

I'm posting in the Europe forum because this occurred on an overnight flight and the passengers were delayed until the next morning.

Should passengers have been compensated?
Should the flight have gone out that night (later?)
Should the offending passengers be penalized (they were NOT)?
Which begs the question, WHO do you think IS the offending passenger?

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...t.html?sid=101
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Old Jun 1st, 2011, 11:17 AM
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As you can imagine, this topic is being discussed in the
Lounge.
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Old Jun 1st, 2011, 11:22 AM
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Wow. I'm not sure what the airline's protocol is about compensating passengers for something like that or about the flight leaving later that night, so I'm not sure how to answer those questions. I don't understand why all the fuel was dumped. However, in my opinion, YES, the two offending passengers should be penalized. I'm not sure whys "a smack to the head" didn't warrant charges filed~I believe that amounts to battery. The passenger who reclined his seat didn't commit any crime, he (or she) was simply thoughtless and inconsiderate. The passenger who issued the smack to the Neanderthal's head is the offending passenger. I am amazed and disgusted that so many people were inconvenienced because two idiots each thought THEY were the most important people on board.........
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Old Jun 1st, 2011, 11:32 AM
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I think it would be unfair to expect the airline to compensate the passengers as this is totally out of their control. That said, I can completely understand the frustration of having your travel plans postponed by a day. Perhaps a small voucher for future travel would have been in order. Rescheduling the departure for the same night might not be as easy as we think - lots of logistics involved.

As for whose fault it was, in my opinion the smack on the head was uncalled for if it was simply done in response to the reclining and no other provocation. Reclining is not an offending gesture in itself, unless it is done during meals.

Most people have trouble asserting themselves in a CALM manner and that's what leads to problems. It's OK to ask the person in front of you not to recline if it'll makes your flight miserable. A smack on the head is not OK.
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Old Jun 1st, 2011, 11:43 AM
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Well I'll bite (oh not literally) - I just so don't get the problem with reclining your seat. It is MADE to recline and I really can't understand how other passengers can object to the person in front of then just doing what the seat is made to do. I think they crew should have told the objecting passenger to suck it up and shut up. On a transatlanic flight there was a passenger who told my daughter that she was going to call the police if she kept reclining her seat. Me, bad mom, was snoozed out on Ambien but if I had been awake I would have had some choice words for the woman.
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Old Jun 1st, 2011, 12:21 PM
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Usually the offending passenger is arrested.

On US-Europe flights, they will often stop at Bangor, ME, the offending passenger will be arrested and usually has to pay the landing fee and the airline's costs: about $20,000 if I recall correctly, in addition to facing criminal charges. These incidents are not uncommon on flights from FL to Europe, where passengers start drinking as soon as the flight is airborne.

We were on Virgin BOS-LGW (they flew there then) some years back when there was a disturbance forward in the tourist cabin. An elderly but feisty Irish woman began bouncing her seat back and forth when she objected to the complaints of the people behind her. They were reseated in First Class!!!! and she was arrested on arrival in the UK.

If there was no arrest in Washington, diplomatic status may have been involved. Flyers can be banned for life by airlines for incidents like this, so the perp may find that going to Ghana the long way around is his only option in the future.
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Old Jun 1st, 2011, 12:46 PM
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As to the reclining seat issue. On a Lufthansa flight from Frankfurt to JFK a few years back I was in the steerage section, second from the last row. The person in front of me decided to recline their seat as far back as it could go. The people behind me were stuck in the non-reclining seats, and the people in front of the leaner were doing something on their computer. Thus, he had a ton of room and I had none. If I reclined, then I would smash the people behind me.

I nicely asked if he minded raising his seat, as I had absolutely no leg room. This 20 something punk turned around and told me to F off and began slamming back and forth in his seat. I called the flight attendant, who said their was nothing they could do. I tried to explain to him that I could not recline due because it wouldn't be fair to the people behind me. He flipped me off. This went on for almost an hour. With that, I decided it was time for me to begin my leg push exercises against the back of his seat. After several minutes of me driving my knees into the back of his seat, he decided to jump up, all 5 1/2 feet of him and confront me for "disturbing him". I stood up, being over a head higher, over twice his age and weighing in about 50 lbs more and he decided it was best to return to his seat, raise the back and act civilized.

Now, who was the offending party in this? Does a person have the right to recline? Yes, but they must also take into consideration what happens to the people behind them. Is it necessary to try to turn a coach seat into a bed? NO! Especially when nobody in front was reclined. It was also a full flight. It was the last time I ever flew Lufthansa and will be the last. RyanAir had more standard seat room, before the moron played his game.

dave
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Old Jun 1st, 2011, 12:57 PM
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I heard that on the news and didn't read the full thing but don't understand people who don't understand the issue with reclining seats. It's a matter of consideration and timing.

It's normal to recline the seat in the middle of the night when all the lights are out and people are sleeping. It is not normal to fully recline your seat a half hour or less into the flight when we haven't even had dinner yet and there are many hours to go before it might be lights out. That's the difference. I have had one jerk do that to me and he also used the silly argument that "the seats were made to recline". The seats are mechanical and are made a certain way for certain conditions, but that has nothing to do with what is considerate and appropriate at certain times and not others. Also, the seat mfrs don't care, they make one seat that reclines one way, they aren't custom made for the size of the airplane or spacing.

But I really don't understand people who think it's okay to fully recline your seat when you have just got on board and maybe the person behind you is trying to eat or watch the video screen or just doesn't want a person in their lap so that they have only an inch or two of space when they are fully awake. If it's a day time flight when it isn't normal to sleep, then I don't think it's every appropriate to fully recline your seat unless the person behind you has reclined also or is sleeping (or you ask and they don't care).

Yes, reclining is an offending gsture at times other than meals because it sticks a person in your lap. I find it extremely offensive if I'm trying to watch the video and enjyo a drink, for example, and am wide awake. As I said, I think if everyone ios pretty much asleep and it's the middle of the night, okay, if most people are awake, then no, it is offensive no matter what.

But I don't think the airline is responsible for anything.
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Old Jun 1st, 2011, 01:02 PM
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I've never been on a night time flight where the person infront of me didn't recline. The seat is made to do it, and in economy, you can recline, what 4 inches maximum? If everybody would recline, everybody would have the same space. Part of the reason I book in advance is so I don't get stuck in the last row where I can't recline. If more space is required/wanted then there is always business class. So I will always recline after dinner (not necessarly all the way), and if somebody behind me complained I'm pretty sure I wouldn't care.

Either way, it is kind of silly to think of an emergency landing over a reclining seat!
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Old Jun 1st, 2011, 01:14 PM
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I may be flying on different airlines than the unhappy passengers but really, the seats do not "fully recline" and the part that does recline impacts the area in front of my chest, not my leg room. For those with long legs, an aisle seat seems to be a good idea as long as the crew is respectful and does not clip your feet with the beverage cart.
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Old Jun 1st, 2011, 01:21 PM
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I have a solution for this kind of behavior--reclining the seat completely into my lap. I get up a LOT. And when I do, I have to lean HARD on the seat to wiggle out. I usually wait about an hour until they are napping pretty well. And I get really nasty looks, which is the most pleasing of things to me. I recline my seat as little as I can in order not to do this to the person behind me. Yes, they are made to recline. But some common sense/thought should also come into play.
I also have long legs and sometimes the seat comes against my knees. I don't tend to sit still. They can make it so I will not bother them.
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Old Jun 1st, 2011, 01:41 PM
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Interesting answers. I know we've discussed the appropriateness (or lack thereof) of reclining seats over and over again here, but I fall into the category of "the seats recline a bit, so can I." As a few stated above, it's impolite to recline during a meal service, however.

Truthfully, no one who has ever reclined has been "in my lap." And it's never interfered with viewing the movie on the seat back.

The bigger problem in this case is, IMHO, that they turned back. Why not move the person who got smacked into a different seat and arrest the guy who smacked a passenger once they arrived in Ghana?
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Old Jun 1st, 2011, 02:11 PM
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MelJ, if you were a pilot contemplating a long flight over the open Atlantic, responsible for the well-being of everone on your flight, would you take it with passengers aboard who had already acted violently? What do you do in mid-Atlantic?

You would be irresponsible AND out of your mind. Where else could they have landed rather than returning to IAD? Maybe MIA? And then? What happens between the point of the incident and MIA? Too risky by any standard!
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Old Jun 1st, 2011, 06:13 PM
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No one has the right to put their hands on the another person - except in self-defense. So the fault belongs to the person who attacked the clod that threw his seat back into the other passenger.

IMHO everyone, before putting their seat back, should look behind them to make sure they're not gong to jostle someone's drink or squash them while they hold a child or whatever. then say - I'm going to put my seat back now - so everyone is on the same page.

While I avoid putting my seat back in coach (caveat: I usually fly first or business) many people do and they are entitled to do so as long as they use reasonable care.

People who fight on a plane are both idiots - and both should have been thrown off.
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Old Jun 1st, 2011, 06:17 PM
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Ackislander--I agree with your common sense completely. I just deduced that the "smacker" was not violently out of control once told to stop because he wasn't arrested on landing.
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Old Jun 3rd, 2011, 10:31 AM
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The airlines need to give a sane amount of seating room to coach seats. I don't have an issue with coach because I am small, but not everyone is my size either. Most guys are bigger than I am, for instance.
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Old Jun 3rd, 2011, 11:15 AM
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I never get the reclining issue either. On as really long overseas flight, especially overseas, it's ridiculous to expect someone not to recline. Do I recline before dinner? No. But as soon as dinner is over and the trays are up I recline, usually because the person in front of me reclines, and try to get some sleep. Fortunately for me I can actually sleep in a plane, especially with a little help from Ambien, so if a person wants to pull on my seat to make a point than by all means go for it...I just reposition myself and go right back to sleep.

In coach the seats barely recline. I never feel like I have a seat in my lap. I'm never comfortable to begin with, so I just suck it up for the 7-8 hours because its worth it to travel. If I couldn't deal with seating in coach I would be flying business class.

Tracy
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Old Jun 3rd, 2011, 12:12 PM
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The first guy should have been arrested on landing. I can see why the pilot landed. ANd I also now why he had to drop a full tank of fuel first. The other guy should not have escalated the situation. The plane was only half full. They should have moved the recliner to business or first class. And the other passengrs who were inconveniencd by the delay should have been compensated!
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Old Jun 3rd, 2011, 01:29 PM
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>Which begs the question, ............<

Why do some people think that they own the g..d... plane just because they bought a ticket for one seat?

Would it have hurt to let the person behind know that he was going to sit back?

Would it have hurt to sloooooooowwwwwllllllllllly move back?

Good for the person who did the smacking.

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Old Jun 3rd, 2011, 02:03 PM
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Well, I am on a plane now and my seat is RECLINED!

And while you may not like it, it does give you the right to do "leg excecises" or otherwise act like a child....

So Chistina, you were not in the right.... you were just as rude as the person you are trashing..... And honestly, you should have been told so by the Flight Attendants.....
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