Impressions
 

Just got back from spending 10 days in London & Paris with a quick one day trip to Brussels for a good measure.

Stayed at Mariott Maida Vale in London for 98 pounds a night. I can strongly recommend this hotel. The rooms were decent size, the restaurant was good and the hotel even has a pool. Close to the Underground station and a short distance to all the attractions. Bus # 16 also goes there.

In Paris I can recommend Sofitel La Grande Arche. Again nice business hotel with good amenities and decent size rooms which is a rarity for Europe. One stop and your at Charles De Gaulle Etoile. The rates were not bad either.

Most people in Paris were rude but the City itself is beautiful. Brussels was also nice for a one day visit.

Beware prices in London. Very very very expensive place. Cab ride from Gatwick was going to be 95 pounds. Thank god for the trains. Get a three or five day subway card. It really saves you money.

Food in London was outrageous because of the horrible exchange rate. However the impressions and memories are forever and worth the cost.

Thanks for posting! Would you please share more details about your trip? Restaurants, sights, etc.?

Lee Ann

ANd please explain "rude". I've not encountered it and I've been visiting Paris yearly for over 20 years.

Nevermind, <i>we</i> know 'most' people in Paris are not rude. Reserved, possibly. Inflexible, occasionally. Tourist-weary, understandably. Rude,sometimes maybe but rarely.

Good to hear the hotel comments, though I don't care how nice a hotel is at la Defense, it doesn't 'feel right' out there.

Sight in London: Westminster Abbey, St. Paul's Cathedral, The Tower, tour of London on the double decker and tour of Thames on the boat, Harrods, Picadilly Circus, Madam Thussaud's museum, We Will Rock You musical was great, Fame musical was just ok

Sights in Paris: Louvre, tour of the city, river tour, Mulen Rouge (rip off), Eiffel Tower, Champs de Elyses, Versailles

Waiters were rude. Tend to ignore tourists etc. Service was bad compared to the States but then again I think we are spoiled here by great service.

I recommend these hotels because they were reasonably priced by European standards and had big modern rooms &amp; amenities. I heard too many horror stories about European hotels and was generally satisfied with our selection.

I've never encountered a rude Parisian, I think they are delightful people,but each to their own.

Waiters in the US hover over you and continually ask if everything is ok. They try to get you in and out as quick as possible. Waiters in France and Italy are different. They assume that when you are ready to order or when you need something, like the check, you will motion to them. They allow you to stay and linger as long as you like. They are not ignoring you, they are allowing you to have your meal in peace.

I have had a rude waiter...one in three trips to Paris. They do tend to disappear and won't bring your check til you ask for it so if you're getting ready to leave, you have to keep an eye out and signal for them that you're ready for the bill. Last trip our waiter disappeared and I couldn't find him anywhere. We had the bill but he never came to pick it up, so we had cash and paid, left it on the table with the bill. I had places to go and sites to see. When we walked out of the restaurant, he was out on the sidewalk having a smoke and chatting up a cute young lady. I would call him the &quot;disappearing waiter&quot;, but I wouldn't call him rude.

&quot;Most people in Paris were rude&quot;

I've been travelling to Paris several times a year for a bit under half a century. I've never encountered anything other than impeccable manners, except from Mrs F when she's been driving the peripherique and I've been navigating.

Waiters account for a fraction of one percent of the city's population - but let's grant that the poster regards their brand of civilised behaviour as &quot;rude&quot;

What were the other 8 million doing to justify such an offensive description?

&quot;Rude&quot; has definitely taken its place in the pantheon of travel words which includes

small
large
dirty
clean
close
far
charming

If I travel in US or Canada, I think I can identify rude or not.

If I travel to Europe or Africa, I know that I am travelling to a different culture, and that thing won't be th esame as at home. Even if I went to England/Ireland where we share the same language, I cannot/should not assume that it will be &quot;just like home&quot;

So if I were to experience situations where &quot;everyone is rude to me&quot;, I would question myself and my behavior, since I might not be picking up on some cultural trait.

That being said, I've no memories of any rude behavior in Paris. I try to pcik up (from here and from experience) how to change my behavior to be more culturally aware.

I'd be interested in hearing some stories of rudeness.

My daughter spent 6 months in Paris, and when I visited her she explained that it is generally considered rude for the waiter to bring your bill before you ask for it, because that would seem to be rushing you. During my three weeks there, I noticed that this was generally the case; I did need to request the bill. I found the servers to be refreshingly businesslike: able to answer my questions but not otherwise inclined to chat. Also, I enjoyed the tacit understanding that a meal was not something to be rushed through, but savored. When I needed to eat quickly, I bought a sandwich to go at a boulangerie and ate it in the park. Yes, to each his own . . .

London is expensive, but really no-one takes a cab from Gatwick to London. I once had a rude taxi driver (fairly unusual for London), who told us that there was a big problem with the trains, and Gatwick Express wasn't running. But he could take us to Gatwick himself. We said to go to Victoria Station as requested anyway, and checked wether there was a problem; there wasn't, the trains were running as normal.

Ah, well... it's not recommended to describe the French as rude - there are a lot of fans here!

Did you enjoy any good meals? (details)
Did you enjoy the activities you chose? Agree that there are mixed reviews on the value of Moulin Rouge..

Here are some specific examples:

1) Cashiers at Gare du Nord refusing to speak English even though she knew English as we found out.
2) Waiters telling a couple to move to a different table in Brussels. The couple got up &amp; left. This would have never hapenned in the States.
3) Taxi drivers not bothering to get out of the cab to help with the bags.
4) Waiter ignoring repeated requests for cup of coffee
5) Cashiers throwing change to you instead of handing it over at a Metro station.

Little things but they can add up. Other than that the trip was wonderful but very expensive thanks to the current exchange rates.

&lt;&lt;2) Waiters telling a couple to move to a different table in Brussels. The couple got up &amp; left. This would have never hapenned in the States.&lt;&lt;&lt;
And this make you say French are rude ?

So let me get this straight.

&quot;Most people in Paris are rude&quot; because a cashier spoke her own language.

You're a guest in the country and haven't got the common courtesy to speak their language. Or to remember which country Brussels is in?

If that's good manners (or logic) in your country, thank God I don't live there.

I sort of got the idea where you were coming from w/ the &quot;&pound;95 cab ride&quot; warning. Sort of like warning against walking up the Empire State bldg - yes it can be done but no one w/ any sense would.

So I assumed your references to rude Parisiens was along the same lines and now I see - the rudest person was in <u>Brussels</u> and a French woman refused to speak English to you?? OKaaaay. BTW - did you greet her politely first? If you just confronted her and demanded service -- in English -- I can't really blame her.

Sure there are rude people in France and in London and in your home town. But I have never encountered a rude waiter in Paris - not once. Business like for sure - but rude - nope.

Anytime people make remarks about Parisians or the French or fill-in-the-blank being rude, I just smile and think, &quot;Oh I must get such great, helpful servicve because I'm so charming and beautiful.&quot;

I suggest this to my fellow Fodorites. It'll really make your day.

&gt; 5) Cashiers throwing change to you instead of handing it over at a Metro station.

Since nobody mentioned so far, a techinicality may be but there is a glass shield (with a tiny slit for exchange of money/tickes) between the cashier and the customer at metro ticket counters and it is hard to picture &quot;throwing&quot; or &quot;handing&quot; changes. Or maybe OP found different sort of couters that I don't know.

I think I don't have the same notion of &quot;rude&quot; that many people here has..I find very rude to approach a person in English...in a non english speaking country.

I'l with Leely on this one..
LOL...

One time I &quot;dithered&quot; when the lady behind the counter clearly was busy (lunchtime) and she may have emphatically suggested that I decide. The next day, seeing me again, at a decidely less busy time in the day, she was smiles...and cheerful and asked me how I was enjoying Paris, what had I seen...etc.

Here is one more example. We went to have breakfast at a restaurant next to the hotel. It was openned and empty. All tables were set up except one. Guess what they tried to put us at that table. You have to be kidding me! It had no plates, silverware, napkins or anything. Nothing! I refused to sit there so grudgingly they moved us to another table. Now this may not be rude behavior in France but I find it bizarre at the very least.

One thing I noticed is that if you act and look disgrunted the French treat you better. So from that point on I had this pissed off look on my face and we got along splendidly with everyone.

Asking if everything is ok and refilling your glass with ice tea qualifies as good service to me.

Chatting with passers by, smoking outside, ignoring your patrons, never bringing you any refills is bad service no matter where you live.

Refills ? Here in Europe ?? I've never seen such a thing :) You have to ask for another thing if you wish to have something.

jsims

Thanks for the trip report. I suspect people were not being as rude as you perceived, and I'm sorry that you so perceived it. I'm glad it didn't spoil your holiday.

I hope you may go to Paris again some time. Those who are analysing here may be able to help you defuse the rudeness with some tips in advance.

I'm not a huge Paris hand, myself (although I know South West France MUCH better), but I've never met rude service. Brisk at a level which is not what I expect at home, but then, I'm not at home, and when in Rome (or Paris) do as the Romanians (or Parisians)- sorry, that was always one of my mother's most awful jokes.

jsims: I pretty much think the entire problem (or 95% of it at least) was just misunderstandinhg the cultural and business differences between most of Europe and teh States. For instance -- you will not get refills in Europe unless you buy another drink. Refills are practically unheard of.

And the bill - a waiter will almost never bring you the bill untill you ask for it. From a French waiter's perspective - it would be VERY rude to bring the check before a diner specifically asked for it . . . .

In conclusion: I love Paris and will definitely go back. The city is beautiful. Thanks for all the feedback and remember Mariott Maida Vale &amp; Sofitel La Grande Arch are good values for your money.

Well, if you're going to travel in a bubble and not even try to understand another culture, or do some researach on it before you go, your &quot;impressions&quot; are going to be skewed.

I think it's telling that the OP wanted to stay in some large American-type business hotel way out in La D&eacute;fense because he'd heard &quot;horror stories about European hotels.&quot;

Then waiters who don't do the smarmy &quot;Hi, I'm Clifton and Ill be your server tonight&quot; bit get pegged as rude.

And metro staff who don't put change in your hand (which Europeans pretty much never do) are rude.

And no refills? Oh the horror!! Once again, something that's just not done in Europe.

A Parisian who speaks French? Quite amazing, no?

Glad to hear you'll go back to Paris, though. Maybe between now and then you can pick up some tips on Fodors that will improve your impressions.

Unfortunately - Maida Vale is not very convenient for sightseeing - nor close to anything much. It may have been a nice hotel and you may have had a good rate - but to say it is &quot;<i>a short distance to all the attractions.</i>&quot; isn't very accurate. The nearest sites of any sort are Lord's and Regents Park, and it is nearly a mile from the park.

jsims

You are entitled to your feelings, even if they do not correspond to those of others in the same situation. If you felt annoyed by certain behaviours in Paris, then that is how you felt, case closed.

However, that you feel something was annoying, does not automatically translate to it being an act of insensitivity.

In some cases you need more information. Don't forget, restaurants even in the US might ask someone to move, if the table had already been reserved for someone else. It's hard to say without knowing more about the specific situation.

Re your cashier: People who know a second (or third, or whatever) language, especially if they know it only a little, may not automatically attempt to use it, for any number of reasons. Remember, 'knowing' doesn't automatically mean 'fluent.' I know some French, but when the going gets tough and I'm on the spot, I'll throw in the English word or phrase. This doesn't mean I'm obstinately refusing to use the French phrase - it means that I CAN'T use it - I don't know it, I've forgotten, or I got rattled, or whatever. So, your cashier might have been taken off guard at the outset of her encounter with you, and recovered only later.

Coffee refills are like 'return goods for any reason' policies - they have nothing to do with what is either legally or socially required, even in the US. One might miss these business practices when the establishment doesn't observe them - and one is free to miss them. One doesn't have to like differences, even if one can come to expect them.

I'm glad you enjoyed your trip, and appreciate your giving us your frank impressions.

Sue - your comment about coffee got me thinking that everytime I have ordered &quot;un cafe&quot; it has meant an espresso and it was always processed at that time.
The American system of filling a cup from a pot made &quot;who-knows-how-long-ago&quot; just does not exist in a cafe or even most restaurants.
As an asidse I have yet to have a cup of coffee made by a &quot;French Press&quot; in France. A Parisienne tells me that these are unusual even in homes. That electric coffee makers are the norm.

Thanks to all for their responses. Travel rules and I wish I could do more of it. By the way can anyone recommend a nice (modern) not too expensive hotel in Buenos Aires? Has to be 4 stars or better. Thanks.

Start a new thread on the appropriate forum for your hotel search.

robjame

In the UK we call a Frech press a cafetiere. We have a number in a range of sizes in the French house. But we had to buy the big ones here and take then over.

Danish pastry anyone?

ttt

Hello jsims, regarding your question about hotels in BA you would get more information if you posted this on Fodor's South America Forum. Best regards.

I was going to mention the M&eacute;tro windows but kappa already did and as for being asked to move table in the US, well, the very last time I was there visiting family it happened. My family needed the one large table at our favorite fried clam restaurant (since there were 8 of us) so the hostess asked the party of 6 if they would move to another table which they did and when they got up, we realized they were our cousins! So it happens.

umm - jsims,

I noticed your trip report is your fisrt post. Maybe it would have changed your perception of people in Paris, if you had done some research (including asking a few questions) before leaving.

As to your breakfast restaurant: Of course the waiters wanted you to sit at the only table without any napkins, plates and silverware. All the other tables were set for lunch. Breakfast in France usually consists of a coffee and a croissant or something similar. No need for linen napkins, forks, knives or anything else.

You simply caused them additional work, so they had good reason to be disgruntled.

One lives and learns (and has no reason to blame amyone else!)

Phil.