I'm thinking of taking the plunge to Europe with the family . . .
 

. . . and I'm wondering how much money I have to save up. So, excluding airfare, if I want to take 2 adults and three kids to London for 8 nights, staying in a decent hotel with private bath but no other frills, eating humble meals and grabbing a sandwich for lunch, and paying for basic museum admissions and transportation -- <BR> <BR>How much should I budget? I know, this varies by person, but I need some figures to give me of an idea of whether we can swing this at all.

Off the cuff comments--- <BR> <BR>1. look at an apartment rental (although remember most places that advertise on the web are more expensive than what you can find with more work). Especially if it is a one bedroom with adequate space for all of you, you will save the cost of two hotel rooms. Also an apartment would allow you to cut down on costly outside meals (you can have your splurge meals during lunchtime, when they are cheaper than dinners). You might want to look through the archives here for such a budget apartment accomodation. <BR> <BR>2. Does it have to be England? Spain, for instance, would be far cheaper.

Good advice that, look into an apartment. Here are some resources <BR> <BR>Pied a Terre <BR>Email: [email protected]. Telephone 207 499 692 <BR>Fax 207 491 7273" <BR>www.vacationspot.com www.cenlonap.co.uk <BR>www.priceapts.co.uk <BR>and Parkway London apartments, in the US call 800 398 9677 <BR> <BR>Some museums are free to everyone, others free for kids. <BR>I have a London file with information and lots of websites to consult about transportation and other necessities; if you'd like to see it, email me <BR> <BR>The other good advice is to consider other places, unless London is your dream, because it's expensive relative to some other places. However, I love London, and with 8 days you could even do some daytrips into other areas.

I forgot this as well, but don't know how prices compare to a flat of your own and I don't know if the bathrooms are private <BR>www.icsl.ac.uk/support/ <BR>universityhalls.htm <BR>lists universities in London that rent out their student dorm rooms (residential halls) each summer. Rooms vary from single to double to group-sized acommodation.

You guys are great. I figured London for practical reasons (cheapest airfare from the east coast and short flight) and for silly reasons, like the fact that my kids kind of know about it from movies or such. Paris would be second choice, but it's probably more expensive. Spain is less money, but I've been twice and don't wish to return, and I'm unsure what kids might enjoy there. <BR> <BR>Anyway, thanks, and I'd love any more advice you all have.

On the contrary, with the exchange rate the way it is today, Paris would probably be cheaper than London. There are lots of small but nice hotels in Paris for $100/night, and in my opinion, you'll be able to have better quality meals for the money in Paris. Either way, both are great cities!

Not sure how old your kids are, but if they are students, you will probably want to get them an International Student Identity Card (ISIC). This card gives students big discounts at theaters, museums, etc. and will save you a lot of money! Look for them on the web.

A nice hotel room (you'll need two, or a suite) will cost you $120 a night, minimum, so you're looking at $240x8=$1920. A nice 2 bedroom apartment is $1200 a week. Your food budget will be about what it is at home for anything you buy in a supermarket; you can save money by picnicking i/o buying a ready made sandwich. You can drink the tap water. American soft drinks are expensive, but cheaper at the supermarket than per glass at a restaurant. <BR> <BR>Many of the London museums are free, and more are scheduled to be that way. Focus on the free ones, and throw in an occasional one that costs (some are as much as $8-10 per adult). <BR> <BR>Lots of stuff in London is free (like the parks, Speaker's Corner, churches) or pretty cheap (like riding a double-decker city bus from one end to the other and back, all for one $2 ticket). A 7 day travelcard (adult) for the underground costs £18.90; single tickets cost £1.50. <BR> <BR>Paris is actually cheaper than London in $$ for food, hotels, etc. but there aren't any free museums, though there are lots of parks and churches that are.

I think Paris would definitely be cheaper. But since you're going for 8 days consider taking the Chunnel Train and spending a little time in both places. It would eliminate your ability to get an apartment but there are good hotel rates in Paris. Email me if you'd like some suggestions. And the kids would love both places. It will be an experience you will never forget.

Thanks again, everyone. This is really helping me focus in on how such a trip would work. I've always traveled to Europe solo or with hubby, and throwing kids into the mix really changes the equation. I had no idea we couldn't just squeeze into one hotel room, so thanks for setting me straight. Should have thought about that before we had the third kid, perhaps. <BR> <BR>Anyway, excuse my ignorance, but can you help me with this question: are the types of apartments we're discussing well-located, or are they way out in the outskirts? And is a one-week stay a reasonable duration, or should I be thinking of doing a week in a flat in London and then hopping around the countryside for a second week? <BR> <BR>Again, I apologize for my lack of experience on this. <BR>

Almost anywhere in Europe is less expensive than London, and Paris DEFINITELY is far less expensive than London, for both food and lodging.

Karen, I didn't see your post before my last response. You're really on to something. We could do a week in London, and then take the show on the road for maybe 4 nights in Paris. OK. I'll get my calculator and get to work. <BR> <BR>Thanks a bunch!

We took our 11 year old daughter to London and Paris this spring and she liked Paris better. She could have stayed at the top of the eiffel tower all day. We practically had to drag her out. She loved walking along the river having a sandwich a little sidewalk cafe and even liked the Museums. Also the trinkets in Paris are dirt cheap. I'd consider doing both cities if you have the time and money.

Splash, <BR>I took my three children to London for 8 days just over a year ago. They loved it! Part of the appeal was the ability for them to converse with other kids. They were 14, 15 and 16 at the time. <BR>I did stay in Bloomsbury at a hotel with the ability to sleep 5 to a room. It is affordable and offers a great English breakfast. The rooms are basic and some a bit shabby. The price and location can not be beat however. <BR>The tube was within a couple of blocks, and the bus, across the street. <BR>Email me and I will give you the details. <BR>I had the kids do a little research on a few sites in London...as always, these were their favorites! <BR>Enjoy and happy planning! <BR>Gloria

Splash, <BR>We've stayed in apartments many times in London and for a family I'd really recommend it (more room, kitchen facilities, etc). Check out Nick Price's website (Price apartments). He has a 2 bedroom w/2 bathrooms (one is just toilet & sink) on Balcombe St. A friend of mine just stayed there in June and she and her family enjoyed it. Very convenient location, a few blocks from Baker St (super tube connections) and one block from Marylebone Tube Stop. We've rented from Nick in the past and had no problems. The apartments he has are not luxury types (those cost a fortune) but they are decent enough (remember however that most apartments and hotel rooms will be smaller then what you are probably used to in the US). I'd most definately go for an apartment tho over a hotel if I traveled with a family. <BR>Tube (weekly) passes are the way to go as well. Everyone will need a passport sized photo to get one but you will save a bundle. Check out the London Underground website for prices, etc. <BR>You can travel without eating all humble meals!! Having an apt. makes it easy to do breakfast anyway and even an occasional quick dinner if you want. There are many decent places to eat that are nice (and fun) that won't break the bank. Museums all have cafes and there are "coffee shop" type places in London too (Garfunkal's comes to mind). The usual chains are all over Europe, i.e. McDonalds, KFC, Pizza Hut, etc. We enjoyed Wagamamma's in London when we were there againt this spring. <BR>I'd plan on a week in London, anything less does not do justice to the city and with a family schlepping back and forth from airports, train stations,is not a lot of fun. There are wonderful day trips you can do that won't cost a fortune either (Hampton Court, Windsor, Greenwich, Warwick Castle ... and on and on). <BR>An actual budget is hard to predict not knowing you and you family. For myself we love the theater and buy tickets in advance for severals shows spending several hundred dollars - it really all depends on what you like to do and enjoy. You do not have to spend a fortune in London tho, aside from the theater we never do. <BR> <BR>

I go to London a couple of times a year and always rent a flat. You can get a decent, centrally located 2-bdrm flat for £600 - 700 per week That is less than £100 a night for five - and you will have a full kitchen, washer/dryer, bath ot 2 baths, on a tube line and walking distance to major tourist attractions. Or if you want to splurge you can get a 3 bdrm, 3 bath penthouse with terraces and balconies for £1200 per week. That is an amazing bargain. <BR> <BR>You can get better "cheap" hotels in Paris - so if you have the time do a full week in London in a flat and 4 or 5 days in Paris in a hotel. (there are flats in Paris but most require a 7 day rental) <BR> <BR>A weekly tube pass in London and a carnet in Paris gets you cheap transport. By next year almost all London Museums will be free (on of the last to go Free is the V&A late this year.) and Paris museums are inexpensive if you buy the pass. <BR> <BR>You can get 1/2 price tickets to almost every play in London every day at Leicester Square. And Children get good discounts at the attractions that do charge. <BR> <BR>So the trip will be a lot cheaper than you'd probably guess.

Definitely do London. Definitely rent an apartment. We had a very basic student apartment 3 blocks from the tube, with washer/dryer and TV, two bedrooms, for $125 a night and it was great. Get the booklet "City Apartments" from the BTA. If you're going to shell out big bucks to schlep the whole family over there, stay AS LONG AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN. We took three kids to London and various parts of Denmark(another expensive country) in 1998 and spent 23 days. Got two of the airfares free, rented apartment in London, stayed in Hostels in Denmark, did the sandwich thing for lunches, ate breakfast in the apartment, etc and ended up spending $85/person/day for EVERYTHING except souveniers. (and when I cautioned my 9-year-old daughter about how much she was racking up in souvenier money she said in an exasperated tone, "Mom, this is EUROPE!" She was right.) London is very kid-friendly and kids LOVE it. If you have girls, rent the Mary Kate and Ashley movies set in London and Paris. Have the kids read about Henry VIII, Ann Boleyn, Mary Queen of Scots, the little Princes, etc before you go. They will have a ball there.

While looking into the apartments in Paris, I saw the requirement of $5,000USD necessary for a deposit. <BR>Is this out of line. The cost of the flat is 1800$USD for the week. <BR>Thanks! <BR>I vote for London, and an apartment. The kids will love it! <BR>

Splash - nobody really answered your question about total budget, did they? I appreciate how important it is to have a reasonable idea of the total cost and just adding up nightly lodging and meals won't do it for you. We've taken our two kids to England and were surprised that, unlike in the States, we couldn't just add them to our room at no cost. Pretty much paid full freight for them (except airfare which is discounted for kids under 13 - unlike domestic flights) also minor discounts on museums and the underground. Even renting a flat, all the extras really add up. <BR> <BR>As to budget, exclusive of airfare, and assuming you are traveling mid-class with a few indulgences (such as a night at the theatre or a ride on the Thames or lunch at Harrod's counters)I'd guess a range estimate of $3,000 - $4,000. Note: book a family room if not renting a flat, as opposed to two rooms as this is cheaper. For short jaunts in London, use taxis. London cabs are a cinch to find and so much fun...it's often cheaper and quicker than tube tickets for the whole family... <BR> <BR>Also, 8 days in the city might be a bit much on the kids. You should consider one day going out to Hampton Court Palace, or Windsor for variety. While I love Paris and that IS going to be our next family destination...London is super and the absence of a language barrier makes it a great place for the kids. Have fun planning.

Have you thought about a place in the countryside, outside of London? Not everyone's "cuppa" I'm sure, but we rented a three bedroom 2-bath cottage in an Agatha-Christie sytle village, one-hour outside London on a direct rail line in Kent. While our purpose in doing so was to visit friends in a nearby village, we did make the trip into London quite often and journeyed around the countryside as well on British Rail southeast rail passes. The cottage was an unbelievable 160 GBP per week, yup, per week. I'm not sure how much that is in US$, but I know its ultra cheap. The people who own/run it are marvellous as well. We very much enjoyed experiencing the village life, every thing from the small Mom and Pop cafe to the Spar grocery store. Yet, we still got a really good taste for London, retreating to the quieter village at night. Like I said, it's not everyone's idea of a great trip, but I'd do it again in a heartbeat. By the way, the "we" was one 7-year old and two adults. Have fun planning and just e-mail me if you have any questions. Dale