lalalacheesejah

As a Jane Austenite/fan of 18th/19th century aristocracy, I'm definitely not skipping Bath, nor can I skip Stonehenge.
And I definitely have to see Tower of London. So this trip will not be the perfect trip because I will be limited with time and I'll have to see lots of major attractions only (which isn't necessarily a bad thing - I mean they are major for a reason, right?).

I've just figured that this trip will be a shallow intro to Europe. I can always go back to places I want to see more of. Like Spain, sure it would be nice to go there, but I could live without seeing it. But UK and France? I have to. My life goal (no joke) is just to get over there and see as much as I can. So I have the rest of my life to do so

lalalacheesejah

hmmmm...just a thought. maybe I could do the Ireland trip and stay behind and travel about the UK by meself?!

hazel1

So, lala, just take it for what it is - an intro, a little taste to whet your appetite for future trips. From what you've been saying, there will be future trips, and having gotten that little taste from the whirlwind tour, you'll then be able to hone in on what appealed to you most for a deeper dive, or concentrate on what you didn't get to experience the first time. There's a lifetime of vacations in your future, so just relax and don't stress out so much. Your trip agenda has some free days, so just do some homework and figure out your priorities in how you want to use them.

kybourbon

>>>lalalacheesejah on May 24, 10 at 10:29am
I don't want to party. I want to get a few drinks somewhere a few nights a week.

So I'm not looking for a party-party tour company (although, yes, I know my comment made it sound like that in my other thread, but I only said heavy drinking because I want to be clear that I'm not only having 1 or 2 glasses of wine).>>lalalacheesejah on May 24, 10 at 10:34am
Will I get a chance to relax/explore/not be rushed on that trip, do you think?

jent103

So this trip will not be the perfect trip because I will be limited with time and I'll have to see lots of major attractions only... I've just figured that this trip will be a shallow intro to Europe.

Yep. If you stick with this tour, that's the right attitude!

You also mentioned doing Ireland only on a tour then seeing the UK by yourself. For whatever it's worth, I think the UK is a pretty easy country to sightsee in alone. There's good public transport in decent sized cities and between cities (so no worrying about renting a car and trying to navigate and drive), and you won't have to worry about getting around in a place where you don't know the language. It would be a good first solo trip to get used to planning and making your own arrangements.

Cathinjoetown

Lala,

I spent almost three months in Europe the summer between my junior and senior years at university. This was back in the Stone Age when the Arthur Frommer book, "Europe on $5 a day" was almost, but not quite, doable. I traveled with my best friend from college.

We had our ups and downs, but all in all I would not trade that first European experience for anything. I can still remember most days and my dear friend and I often talk and laugh about it--many, many years later. We took some day tours, some trains, did some hitch-hiking, ferries, bikes, a weekend bus tour to Budapest, you name it. We focused for the most part on the major cities but stayed in smaller places as well, sometimes by choice, sometimes because that's where our ride took us.

I'm telling you all this because you mention that you might consider planning your own trip. Obviously, I think this is a great option particularly in you have someone to travel with. Even if you travel on your own, you will meet people and probably travel with them for a few days.

So, while not dumping on your tour plans, I'm glad you're considering other options. Tours can be good but be sure to read and think through all the small print and implications about not being given many choices.

dutyfree

You are only 21.Trust me when I say that after this trip to Europe you will be back so you will be able to go to other places that you have always wanted to see.International travel is addictive.Consider this upcoming trip as the outside of the artichoke and that your life will be a constant peeling away of the artichoke for more travel.
This happened with my own kids and has been the mainstay in my own life after my first European trip many years ago!

sap

Just my two cents, lala: I think it sounds like you are an independent thinker with specific interests and a solo trip that you plan yourself could be ideal. You can spend more time somewhere you like, rush on to the next thing when you feel the urge and basically change plans in midstream when it suits you. It might take more pre-trip effort and research on your part, but the result will be as in-depth or whirlwind as you want it to be.

I think the big question you need to ask yourself is whether you want to be in control, or relinquish the decisions to someone else and go with the flow of a group. What is your style; your personality? Only you can answer that.

daveesl

Not at all sick of hearing from you, that is what this board is all about. You do need to get a bit of a thicker skin, as you have found out, some members can be a bit tough.

I agree with Cath. Now start weighing your options. If I am not mistaken, I believe you can rent a car in most European countries at the age of 21. The only reason for this would be Ireland, as their public transport system isn't as big as most other European countries, but it would get you to many of the places you might want to see.

In almost every other place, trains, buses and planes can get you around easily and in most cases very inexpensively.

The tour will give you relative safety, as you are not traveling alone.

However, my daughter loves to do just that and she just turned 23. In fact, 2 weeks ago I got an email from her saying she was in Stockholm because she got a great airfare from NYC to Copenhagen and then from Stockholm to NYC. It was a 5 day splurge. Oh, and she works as a waitress (aspiring actress).

Comparing apples to apples, the EF tour is $3,700 +/- and then you pay for other stuff like food and drink. We gave you a rough idea of say $60 per day for spending money. 23 days on the ground, that comes out to about $5,000 total, probably a bit more.

On the tour, you are stuck. You follow a set schedule and in most cases are herded around like cattle. Kybourbon is exactly right on the rest stops.

So, with that all in mind, could you do a trip where you could spend time seeing the things you actually want to see, as well as not having to follow someone else's very tight time table and probably spend the same or less? YES!

You have plenty of time to plan it. If you are not quite comfortable in traveling alone, see if you can get a buddy to go with you. You are only young once! Enjoy it.

And we can help you alot in this. See, most of us hate "tours" so now you have our real attention.



dave

lalalacheesejah

I would love to plan and do my own trip, but I have no one to travel with (and I'm a little nervous about traveling alone because I'm a young female and, just being honest and not to sound arrogant, but I know that lots of attractive young girls go missing all the time). Also although I plan on a year away, I really only have this summer and a month in the winter to plan because I'm heavily (too heavily ) involved in honors programs at school and I literally literally have no personal time during the semesters.

And I don't think you can book a year in advance for some flights and hotels, whatever.

Anyway. Now that I am definitely considering planning my own trip, any tips or ideas to keep it cheap, fun, whatever...
Most of you have seen my posts and know what I am into (like alcohol...JUST KIdding!)
Any tips to a first-time traveler for planning? I barely know where to start doing research on where to stay, etc.

Ann1

lal: You're exhausting me!! Someone may have said this but I didn't read every post. You're 21. Take the tour and you'll get a taste of a lot of Europe. Then you have 65 plus years to fill in the spaces. Keep a journal. Write down what you missed and want to do and gradually mark off the list.

lalalacheesejah

I'm exhausting myself! lol
The more I think about it the more I kinda wanna plan my own trip. Oh, dearie.

I was so sure about doing a tour, but not anymore. Perhaps I could do like 3 weeks discovering the UK with my boyfriend.

One of my main concerns is cost. It might be cheaper to plan it myself and would be doubly so if I could get it for cheaper AND go to the places !I! want to go to.

Iowa_Redhead

You can absolutely travel on your own even though you're young and female. I've tended to join tours simply because I like to meet people from around the world, it's worked for my trips and it keeps my parents from being too worried. I spent 6 days in London completely alone and it was fantastic. I'd be completely confident going anywhere in western Europe alone at this point. I'm 25 and female, so pretty much a very similar situation. You can be young and female and still travel alone quite safely.

One trick I use is to have a cell phone and call home about daily. When I'm completely on my own it is daily. If I miss a day they can call my international cellphone or they can call the place I'm staying. This way if something does happen someone knows about it within about 24 hours. It might seem a bit over-protective, but it works to keep me as safe as reasonably possible and it keeps my parents fairly comfortable with my travel addiction.

A lot of it is just common sense that you should be using already anyway. Don't go walking down dark alleys, don't get into unmarked cabs, don't walk home half drunk. If you're going to drink (home, traveling, anywhere) you should either be with a group or take a marked cab from the bar to your hotel (unless it's a short, well lit walk). Buses are great and I generally feel quite safe at night, but when half (or more) drunk that's probably not a good idea.

Going on your own is generally cheaper than a lot of tours as you get to pick and choose where you spend time and money. You can choose to go to smaller cities and not just hit the major sites. My first trip was a 21 day bus trip through Italy, Austria, Switzerland and France. I was 15 and the whirlwind through major site after major site was excellent. Now, my interests have changed and while I still tend to the whirlwind pace I do want to see more than just the main sites. However, because of that first trip I know some of the places I really want to go back to someday and places that can wait. I didn't fall in love with Paris so that's pretty low on my list to go back to now. However I loved Italy and I'm taking my mom in August. If you look at this trip as a way to see the major sites and figure out future trips, then whirlwind might be the way you want to go.

I think looking at your first trip as your first trip and not as your only trip is the best thing you can do, whether you join a bus tour or go entirely solo. Figure out what your "must see" list and figure out how to get to those places. You can do a shorter tour for part of your time and then spend time alone in the UK and Ireland. You can join a tour for a day or two in individual cities or regions. You can combine two shorter tours. You can go with the 25 day overview tour. Take a few days or a week and figure out what places that get your heart pumping and make you excited to go. Figure out a list of places that you really want to see, but if they wait a few years you won't be heart broken. Figure out if there are any places on your possible tours that you just really don't care if you go to or not. One of my favorite ways to figure out my "must see" list is google images.

Don't worry about places to stay or ways to get from point A to point B until you figure out where you want to go and if you want to do it solo or with a tour.

lalalacheesejah

I am always torn on everything in life because I have 2 main facets to me: the crazy girl and the old soul.
The fun-loving 21 year old in me says to go on the tour. The historian old soul in me says go on your own/with boyfriend or brother.

I've gotta get to Ireland, Scotland, Wales, England first. France is close. (Strictly talking about Europe. I do wanna go to other places like Egypt.) Italy is a definite yes, but it could wait.

This tour would be so much fun and its all planned out and I get to go to all these different countries. I understand that it would be fast-paced and I wouldn't get to see everything I want to. And I know that I can always come back to the places I loved most.

Or perhaps I should just start my travels on my own and spend weeks in the UK alone and then just continue planning my own over the years.

This is just a tough question and I'm gonna have to think hard. And thanks to everyone who is giving me their advice. It is confusing me more, but I think in the end I'll pick whatever is best for me based on what you have told me. So sorry to be a pain in the booty with all my indecisiveness.

ellenem

My niece went on a post-college 8-week all-Europe trip with a friend. They traveled on their own, planning the entire trip, and visiting many parts of Europe. She had two major learnings that she shared with me:

(1) They should have made a shorter trip to fewer places so there would have been less "travel" and more "seeing." Too many days were lost in the blur of train stations.

(2) They should have done more research about the places they visited. Often they were checking off a list of cities as they traveled, without knowing what to do or see there before they arrived. A few times, it was only as they were leaving a place and looking at their guidebooks on a train, that they noticed some sight they missed that they would have enjoyed seeing.

You have plenty of time to discern the best trip for you for this time in your life.

Kay2

Lala,
I took my first trip to Europe at 21 and would not have been comfortable traveling alone. I really wanted to travel, but knew myself well enough to know I would probably not venture out much and would miss out on a lot if I was totally on my own.

Luckily, I had a relative to go visit and do some traveling with. She preferred tours so she didn't have to plan or drive, so we took two bus trips while I was there in addition to some solo travel. Personally, I really disliked one tour but enjoyed the other. The people were in their 20s and nice. The problem for me was the selection of what we saw on the trip. One trip was Paris + champagne country. The Paris hotel was out in the suburbs and it took us an hour at least to take the tube into the city for our free time. The area around the hotel contained nothing but offices. The selected stops were standard tourist fare that my relative wanted, but not what matched my interests. I even sat on the bus at one or two stops. I would say about 50% was great for me and 50% was a total bore. We took another trip to Switzerland that matched my interests much more, so I enjoyed all of that one.

What I am trying to say is that you have to make sure the tour stops and activities match your interests. I wouldn't want to sign up for 25 days for my first tour and be miserable after the first few days. Maybe you can do a mix and match for your 3 weeks--for example, choose about a 1 week tour of Scotland and Ireland to get you started, meet people, and get comfortable. Then plan for up to a week on your own to immerse yourself in an area that you have personal interest in beyond what a standard tour might offer--such as base yourself in London and head out to Bath, etc. without such a tight schedule. Then schedule another 1 week to take you on to Paris and other parts of France. You might meet someone on the first tour that you would pal around with for the second week even.

jent103

Iowa_Redhead's idea of doing sort of a combination is exactly what I was going to suggest. The last time I was in Edinburgh, I shared a hostel room with an Australian girl who was traveling solo for a few months - but she was meeting with a group for a few days' tour of the Scottish Highlands. In London, London Walks does a lot of two-hour tours around town, but also lots of day trips to places like Oxford, Bath, and Cambridge. You can be social with the others on the tour, or not. That way, you get some of the benefits of tours - meeting other people, the guide's knowledge, having someone else plan things - while not being stuck on a bus with the same people for three weeks.

I completely understand your apprehension about traveling solo - I'm in much the same boat myself. If your boyfriend or brother (or another friend) are able to and want to go with you, and you know you will travel well together (believe me, this is incredibly important), it could help a lot to have someone else. But if you end up going it alone, the UK really is a great place to start. With three weeks, you could base in London for a week (or even more, if you like) and do easy day trips from there. You could go to Edinburgh for a few days, add a day trip to Stirling or wherever, then maybe take one of the Highlands tours. Spend a couple of days in Bath. Check out places like York as well, especially since you're into history. All of those are doable by public transit and I'd feel no hesitation going there alone. (Not everywhere in the UK will necessarily fit with any desire for nightlife, though, which is something to consider. They'll all have pubs, of course, but the Lake District isn't that exciting at night. You'd be fine in London or Edinburgh, though, I think.)

Dayenu

After 2 weeks on a tour you start hating the tour guide, the driver and whoever sits on the bus next to you

Can you find a shorter tour and stay after the tour visiting the places that tours had missed? If I had time, this is what I usually did.

For example, tour of England and a few days in Paris by yourself. Big cities are always easier on your own, you can also take a day tour out of the city.

You are only 21, you have plenty of travel time ahead, don't rush yourself.

suze

I think you should take this trip as planned. No, you won't have plenty of time to "relax/explore/not be rushed" because there is no way possibly to see as much as you want to see in a short period of time AND have a lot of free time too. Consider it an overview, a taste of thing possible.

Yes, absolultely I think you could plan your own trip and travel solo instead and have a great time. Especially if you were willing just to do the UK this trip. Or any other smaller region really.

As far as expecting to "go missing" just because you are traveling on your own... I'm not sure where you are reading or what you have heard but tourists disappearing from Europe is not exactly a common occurance!

suze

>

Price - that depends on how much your tour costs vs. what kinds of expenses you have traveling solo. The kinds of places you stay, what you choose to spend on transportation, entertainment, tours, etc. There is no way to answer this.

Stress - that depends on how much you enjoy planning, how you feel about being on your own in a strange city, and organizing your own fun vs. being with a guide and group 24/7. There is no right answer.

Better outcome - that depends on how you end up feeling about the organized tour and having a tightly scheduled day planned by others and staying with a group most of the time, or how well you could do planning on your own. Again, no one answer to this question either.