If you had four months...
Jun 21st, 2016, 03:16 PM
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If you had four months...
Hello, and thanks in advance for your feedback.
Husband and I are closer to selling our farm and spending some time traveling. One of our daughters will probably be studying there for a while, and we thought it would be good to try and coincide the two events. My original plan was to retire to Europe, but we can't figure out how to get extended visas.
So if you had four months to spend in Europe between September and January, how would you do it? We realize there's a Schengen zone restriction, and have set up this rough itinerary to accommodate that, but I'd appreciate your feedback. It's worth mentioning that by the time of this trip, we will have already spent time in London, Strasbourg, Reykjavik area, Berlin and Bacharach (though nothing as extensive as what's shown here).
By the time we do this, we will be early to mid-retirement age and (hopefully still!) healthy. We love photography, writing, museums, parks, farmers' markets, easyish walks and a pretty simple lifestyle. I'm a "backpack and hostel" kind of girl, and I've brought husband over to the dark side.
We're NOT into churches, drinking, big-tickets shows/attractions, extravagant hotels or gourmet food.
Sept 5-Oct 12: help daughter move into her dorm, then explore Scotland, Shetland, Yorkshire
Oct. 13-28: Hesse/Rhineland Pfalz area, Munich (we rarely drink, so I don't think missing Oktoberfest will be a big deal)
Oct. 29-Nov. 15: one week in either Salzburg or Vienna, then a week in Lucerne
Nov. 16-25: Rome as a base, with side trips to Naples and Venice?
Nov. 26-Dec. 6: Barcelona (or split the time between Barcelona and Camargue? I would love to see Camargue horses in person)
Dec. 7-18: Paris, with side trips to Versailles, Mont St. Michel, Le Havre and Normandy
Dec. 19-Jan. 3: London, with a side trip to Bath/other day trip ideas are welcome (we're hoping to gather the fam together here between xmas and New Year's before we head back home)
Your input is appreciated. Thank you!
Husband and I are closer to selling our farm and spending some time traveling. One of our daughters will probably be studying there for a while, and we thought it would be good to try and coincide the two events. My original plan was to retire to Europe, but we can't figure out how to get extended visas.
So if you had four months to spend in Europe between September and January, how would you do it? We realize there's a Schengen zone restriction, and have set up this rough itinerary to accommodate that, but I'd appreciate your feedback. It's worth mentioning that by the time of this trip, we will have already spent time in London, Strasbourg, Reykjavik area, Berlin and Bacharach (though nothing as extensive as what's shown here).
By the time we do this, we will be early to mid-retirement age and (hopefully still!) healthy. We love photography, writing, museums, parks, farmers' markets, easyish walks and a pretty simple lifestyle. I'm a "backpack and hostel" kind of girl, and I've brought husband over to the dark side.
We're NOT into churches, drinking, big-tickets shows/attractions, extravagant hotels or gourmet food.Sept 5-Oct 12: help daughter move into her dorm, then explore Scotland, Shetland, Yorkshire
Oct. 13-28: Hesse/Rhineland Pfalz area, Munich (we rarely drink, so I don't think missing Oktoberfest will be a big deal)
Oct. 29-Nov. 15: one week in either Salzburg or Vienna, then a week in Lucerne
Nov. 16-25: Rome as a base, with side trips to Naples and Venice?
Nov. 26-Dec. 6: Barcelona (or split the time between Barcelona and Camargue? I would love to see Camargue horses in person)
Dec. 7-18: Paris, with side trips to Versailles, Mont St. Michel, Le Havre and Normandy
Dec. 19-Jan. 3: London, with a side trip to Bath/other day trip ideas are welcome (we're hoping to gather the fam together here between xmas and New Year's before we head back home)
Your input is appreciated. Thank you!
Jun 21st, 2016, 04:40 PM
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Going by car or train or plane or bike or thumb?
Car I would assume for that long and consider camping - camps everywhere- get a camping car - even in cities like Paris great camps with easy transit into town.
Or if going by rail look into the rail system- great resources - www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com - check out the latter's online European Planning & Rail Guide for lots of suggested itineraries by rail (or could be by car).
Car I would assume for that long and consider camping - camps everywhere- get a camping car - even in cities like Paris great camps with easy transit into town.
Or if going by rail look into the rail system- great resources - www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com - check out the latter's online European Planning & Rail Guide for lots of suggested itineraries by rail (or could be by car).
Jun 21st, 2016, 04:59 PM
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You asked for imput.
Are you talking about this year, Sept, 2016? Next year?
Since you are moving around anyway, not staying in one or two places for the whole time, and since it appears you are retiring or getting ready to do so, I would break this trip up into two trips. Why?
Weather and shorter days. One of the nicest things in Europe for me is walking, wandering, eating outside. There are so many places I love in Europe in warm weather - sitting in a plaza in Southern Spain as the sun sets at 10:00 pm, or dancing outside under the stars on the Bay of Naples. When it gets too cold to enjoy eating out and days get too short for long sunsets, there are many places not so enjoyable. I would take two months in the very early Fall, and wait and take two months in the Spring or very early Summer.
However, if you hate crowds and like cool, possibly rainy weather and touristy things like Christmas markets, then December is fine. There are also some absolutely spectacular events and festivals in winter (think Fastnacht in Basel) that I would plan around if I had four months, partly in winter.
By side trips, do you mean day trips or do you mean taking two or three days away from what you are calling a base city?
Examples:
You could see Naples as a day trip from Rome, but Venice is way too far and needs at least three nights to see much. It is also likely to be rainy and wet at end of November.
Bath is doable, but also not a good day trip, IMHO, from London.
Your plan is jumping about a bit. Look at some of the places in your list and look at what is close that may be wonderful that you hadn't thought about. Consider weather also for the time you would be there.
Example: Though many find it boring, I love the Camargue area. We stayed inside the walls of Aigues Mortes in an 800 year old building and extended it to 3 nights, but it was warm, with flowers blooming and nice on the water. I would love to return. The major thing though, I would want to spend time in Provence if going to the Camargue, and would not want to be in either when it is cold and windy or hot and buggy.
You would certainly have time for Barcelona, the Camargue and a few days in Provence, but you could play it by ear, especially at that time of year. Make a basic plan, but don't book much ahead. You could do that pretty much everywhere.
Are you talking about this year, Sept, 2016? Next year?
Since you are moving around anyway, not staying in one or two places for the whole time, and since it appears you are retiring or getting ready to do so, I would break this trip up into two trips. Why?
Weather and shorter days. One of the nicest things in Europe for me is walking, wandering, eating outside. There are so many places I love in Europe in warm weather - sitting in a plaza in Southern Spain as the sun sets at 10:00 pm, or dancing outside under the stars on the Bay of Naples. When it gets too cold to enjoy eating out and days get too short for long sunsets, there are many places not so enjoyable. I would take two months in the very early Fall, and wait and take two months in the Spring or very early Summer.
However, if you hate crowds and like cool, possibly rainy weather and touristy things like Christmas markets, then December is fine. There are also some absolutely spectacular events and festivals in winter (think Fastnacht in Basel) that I would plan around if I had four months, partly in winter.
By side trips, do you mean day trips or do you mean taking two or three days away from what you are calling a base city?
Examples:
You could see Naples as a day trip from Rome, but Venice is way too far and needs at least three nights to see much. It is also likely to be rainy and wet at end of November.
Bath is doable, but also not a good day trip, IMHO, from London.
Your plan is jumping about a bit. Look at some of the places in your list and look at what is close that may be wonderful that you hadn't thought about. Consider weather also for the time you would be there.
Example: Though many find it boring, I love the Camargue area. We stayed inside the walls of Aigues Mortes in an 800 year old building and extended it to 3 nights, but it was warm, with flowers blooming and nice on the water. I would love to return. The major thing though, I would want to spend time in Provence if going to the Camargue, and would not want to be in either when it is cold and windy or hot and buggy.
You would certainly have time for Barcelona, the Camargue and a few days in Provence, but you could play it by ear, especially at that time of year. Make a basic plan, but don't book much ahead. You could do that pretty much everywhere.
Jun 21st, 2016, 11:23 PM
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Your trip sounds fabulous. We travelled for four months in 2013 and it was great. Our usual trip is 90 days every second year. We stay a minimum of 7 days in a place and have only ever hired a car for 1 month in England. Everywhere else is by train. Here are my tips
Travel light. It does become a drag packing and unpacking.
Think of renting apartments. - nothing like being able to make yourself a tea or coffee anytime.
We booked to many things and places in advance. As mentioned previously give yourself some freedom.
All places you are visiting are walkable cities. We walked everywhere.
Lucerne is beautiful but Switzerland is very very expensive. Friendly people and the landscape is breath taking.
I did go out by myself for coffee every morning. We have been married a long time but learnt my husband likes to take his time in the mornings. Lol
I hope you have a wonderful trip.
Travel light. It does become a drag packing and unpacking.
Think of renting apartments. - nothing like being able to make yourself a tea or coffee anytime.
We booked to many things and places in advance. As mentioned previously give yourself some freedom.
All places you are visiting are walkable cities. We walked everywhere.
Lucerne is beautiful but Switzerland is very very expensive. Friendly people and the landscape is breath taking.
I did go out by myself for coffee every morning. We have been married a long time but learnt my husband likes to take his time in the mornings. Lol
I hope you have a wonderful trip.
Jun 22nd, 2016, 12:34 AM
#7
Ok, so which school did D daughter finally choose????
Sensible choice moving to south for the winter months.
The whole german bit should be done Mosel/Rhine/Pfalz/Alsace (yes Alsace is French but trust me). I spend time in this area every year and one sister in law was born in Pfalz and still house a house there.
So Mosel, visit Luxembourg, Trier, (and even if you don't drink) walk the cliffs and vinyards of Urzig, then onto the Rhine and the pretty little towns, Pfalz (follow the carrot and cabbage path) (probabaly called somehing different now but little villages by bike (you can hire) or bus/train until you cross the border at W.....
Stay in little Pensions all dirt cheap and great food.
Alsace is more expensive than all the places so far but do Strasbourg and Colmar and then a few wine villages.
Sensible choice moving to south for the winter months.
The whole german bit should be done Mosel/Rhine/Pfalz/Alsace (yes Alsace is French but trust me). I spend time in this area every year and one sister in law was born in Pfalz and still house a house there.
So Mosel, visit Luxembourg, Trier, (and even if you don't drink) walk the cliffs and vinyards of Urzig, then onto the Rhine and the pretty little towns, Pfalz (follow the carrot and cabbage path) (probabaly called somehing different now but little villages by bike (you can hire) or bus/train until you cross the border at W.....
Stay in little Pensions all dirt cheap and great food.
Alsace is more expensive than all the places so far but do Strasbourg and Colmar and then a few wine villages.
Jun 22nd, 2016, 03:18 AM
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Thanks, this is all helpful!
@Sassafrass, timing depends on daughter's next couple years in college, but this wouldn't happen before 2019. She's doing her undergrad here but plans to get a master's degree in the UK. I'll have to mull over the two trips vs. one trip idea. I see your logic and agree that two autumns, or an autumn and a spring, would be better, but there's a chance that I would end up needing to go back to work at some point. If we do this "big trip" first, then future trips can be shorter. Our biggest frustration is that it's VERY difficult for me to get even two weeks off work, especially living on a farm. Jigsawing work, farm and kids' school means that we've never had enough time to explore areas fully and everything ends up "skimming" experiences instead of diving in.
@Bilboburgler, she's planning to attend RNCM in Manchester for her master's degree. I know, I know, Manchester gets a bad rap, but we love northern England and it's a good hub for other points. And I TOTALLY agree about Alsace! We spent too few days in Strasbourg/Haguenau and plan to go back. Same for Upper Middle Rhine -- we spent a few days in the area (largely on your advice, I think), and it just wasn't enough.
We were thinking that this would be our "main" trip, and then future trips could be shorter if necessary. If other trips end up being longer, so much the better.
@Sassafrass, timing depends on daughter's next couple years in college, but this wouldn't happen before 2019. She's doing her undergrad here but plans to get a master's degree in the UK. I'll have to mull over the two trips vs. one trip idea. I see your logic and agree that two autumns, or an autumn and a spring, would be better, but there's a chance that I would end up needing to go back to work at some point. If we do this "big trip" first, then future trips can be shorter. Our biggest frustration is that it's VERY difficult for me to get even two weeks off work, especially living on a farm. Jigsawing work, farm and kids' school means that we've never had enough time to explore areas fully and everything ends up "skimming" experiences instead of diving in.
@Bilboburgler, she's planning to attend RNCM in Manchester for her master's degree. I know, I know, Manchester gets a bad rap, but we love northern England and it's a good hub for other points. And I TOTALLY agree about Alsace! We spent too few days in Strasbourg/Haguenau and plan to go back. Same for Upper Middle Rhine -- we spent a few days in the area (largely on your advice, I think), and it just wasn't enough.
We were thinking that this would be our "main" trip, and then future trips could be shorter if necessary. If other trips end up being longer, so much the better.
Jun 22nd, 2016, 02:36 PM
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Like Bilbo I have spend many days on the Mosel, which to me is far more scenic than the Middle Rhine - rent a bike and bike along oneof Europe's primo biking venues (as Bilbo and I have done many times) - check out Burg Eltz Castle, one of Germany's finest ones and the rare one on the Mosel or Rhine not laid to ruins in war thru the ages - along with Marksburg on the nearby Rhine - and hit the wineries- you'll probably run into village wine festivals and IME they are most convivial and fun things (Google search to see if any are happening on the Mosel when you are there - the harvest will be in full swing too.
Aug 21st, 2016, 07:13 AM
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Thanks, PalenQ and Cheska15! We're reworking some of our plans but your suggestions are great and I appreciate them (Cheska15, especially the bit about some time to ourselves - had worried a bit about that and I like your suggestion).
Aug 21st, 2016, 07:46 AM
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You will be travelling in winter!
This means: short days, cloudy skies, lots of rain, even fog, some attractions closed.
Why am I saying this:
You want to spend a whole week in Luzern. Odds are fairly high that you will have a full week with clouds and rain. You will see nothing. Going up the mountains and boat rides on the lake may be pointless. And there is not much else to do in this tiny town.
Suggestion: Check the weather forecasts and decide in the very last minute where to go. Finding accomodation will be no problem at all past season.
Camargue: Horse-riding through Camargue and seeing flamingos is a spectacular experience - but it is a summer experience. I am not sure whether something is available in December.
This means: short days, cloudy skies, lots of rain, even fog, some attractions closed.
Why am I saying this:
You want to spend a whole week in Luzern. Odds are fairly high that you will have a full week with clouds and rain. You will see nothing. Going up the mountains and boat rides on the lake may be pointless. And there is not much else to do in this tiny town.
Suggestion: Check the weather forecasts and decide in the very last minute where to go. Finding accomodation will be no problem at all past season.
Camargue: Horse-riding through Camargue and seeing flamingos is a spectacular experience - but it is a summer experience. I am not sure whether something is available in December.
Aug 27th, 2016, 04:45 AM
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Thanks, traveller1959. I've reworked the itinerary a bit for the exact reasons you mentioned. Cold weather in itself doesn't worry us so much -- where we live, winter temps hover in the teens to 20s with ice and snow, and days are short -- but it would be better in better weather, of course.
We're locked into arriving in late August or early September and leaving in November or December, so we're just trying to make the best decisions for that timeframe.
Appreciate your feedback!
We're locked into arriving in late August or early September and leaving in November or December, so we're just trying to make the best decisions for that timeframe.
Appreciate your feedback!
Aug 27th, 2016, 07:14 AM
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Suggestion: Check the weather forecasts and decide in the very last minute where to go. Finding accommodation will be no problem at all past season.>
Good advice - I never have problems finding accommodations as I go in those times - and usually a lot cheaper than in high season.
Good advice - I never have problems finding accommodations as I go in those times - and usually a lot cheaper than in high season.
Aug 27th, 2016, 08:18 AM
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Seems you are going to try and get there a little earlier. If you could go by the end of August, that would be great!
Usually, the advice is to follow the warm weather, in Spring starting South and going North, and in Fall, starting North and going South.
However, sometimes, that just gives you mediocre, or even gloomy, weather the whole trip, so I suggest the opposite advice for you. I guess you have to start with a few days where your daughter is settling in, but ASAP after that, I would go directly to either Provence or Italy, so at least part of the trip would be in a place that is beautiful for sitting outside while the weather is still nice for doing it. It is a lot nicer to be going to markets, etc. when the weather is pleasant.
It would be a tough call, but I think from what you have said about your interests, it would be Provence with the Camargue for a couple of weeks, then Italy for at least two weeks. Italy takes a bit more travel time than it looks. You can't do a day trip to Venice from Rome and would not want to even if you could. For Pompeii and/or the Amalfi Coast, you want to stay in the area. The Amalfi is a photographer's dream.
Save Germany and Belgium for coldest, maybe snowy weather. They are beautiful then. Castles with snow around them are magical. Christmas markets with music and lights are fun. I am not a winter person, but liked Winters in Germany.
Paris is lovely at all times of year too.
If Barcelona is high on your list, you could fit it in for a few days before Provence or between Provence and Italy.
Have you considered Spain at all? Seville? Granada?
While, it seems it would be easier to go from Paris to Provence or the reverse, there are good flights from/to Venice and Paris, Barcelona and Paris, and the train from Germany to Paris and between Paris and London, where you plan to be in the end.
You might do a little zig zagging, but if you stay some places for longer, it would not be too bad. Logically, you would always go A to B to C, but with cheap flights in Europe, it can sometimes be easier than it looks at first to switch things around.
It is good that you have time to really plan what is best for you. Hope you have fun doing it.
Usually, the advice is to follow the warm weather, in Spring starting South and going North, and in Fall, starting North and going South.
However, sometimes, that just gives you mediocre, or even gloomy, weather the whole trip, so I suggest the opposite advice for you. I guess you have to start with a few days where your daughter is settling in, but ASAP after that, I would go directly to either Provence or Italy, so at least part of the trip would be in a place that is beautiful for sitting outside while the weather is still nice for doing it. It is a lot nicer to be going to markets, etc. when the weather is pleasant.
It would be a tough call, but I think from what you have said about your interests, it would be Provence with the Camargue for a couple of weeks, then Italy for at least two weeks. Italy takes a bit more travel time than it looks. You can't do a day trip to Venice from Rome and would not want to even if you could. For Pompeii and/or the Amalfi Coast, you want to stay in the area. The Amalfi is a photographer's dream.
Save Germany and Belgium for coldest, maybe snowy weather. They are beautiful then. Castles with snow around them are magical. Christmas markets with music and lights are fun. I am not a winter person, but liked Winters in Germany.
Paris is lovely at all times of year too.
If Barcelona is high on your list, you could fit it in for a few days before Provence or between Provence and Italy.
Have you considered Spain at all? Seville? Granada?
While, it seems it would be easier to go from Paris to Provence or the reverse, there are good flights from/to Venice and Paris, Barcelona and Paris, and the train from Germany to Paris and between Paris and London, where you plan to be in the end.
You might do a little zig zagging, but if you stay some places for longer, it would not be too bad. Logically, you would always go A to B to C, but with cheap flights in Europe, it can sometimes be easier than it looks at first to switch things around.
It is good that you have time to really plan what is best for you. Hope you have fun doing it.
