Once in a while I will take a count of how many countries I've visited. When doing my count, I have always counted England, Scotland, Wales, and NI as 4 countries. Is this right or wrong?

Very interesting, I have always wondered about this.

What does it say in your passport? Is there a differentiation between English, Scottish, Welsh and (Northern) Irish in a British Passport?

I presume you can move freely from Scotland to England without any paperwork . . .

Although Scotland has its own parliament, aren't there "national" laws and taxes that apply in both places?

I always assumes (very possibly wrongly) that the Scottish Parliament was similar to a Canadian Provincial or US State government???

What exactly is London the capital of??

In 1707, an Act of Union joined the parliaments of England and Scotland and they became became the 'Kingdom of Great Britain' (Wales was never a Kingdom).
In 1801, under a new Act of Union, this kingdom merged with the Kingdom of Ireland The new kingdom was called the 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland'. In 1922, 26 of Ireland's 32 counties gained independence to form a separate Irish Free State. Since then it has been known as the 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'.

N'Ireland is not part of 'Great Britian'

On the whole (but not always), protestants in NI refer to themselves as British and hold a British passport. Catholics (again not always) refer to themselves as Irish and hold an Irish passport.

The Irish Republic is a separate country.

Just to clairify - when I said "move freely" from Scotland to England, I didn't mean travel, but actually relocate, live and work, and that your taxation / social services would follow you.

So in Northern Ireland you can choose which passport you hold? British or Irish?

>In 1707, an Act of Union joined the parliaments of England and Scotland and they became became the 'Kingdom of Great Britain' (Wales was never a Kingdom). <

Well, how did Wales get caught up in this?

((I))

Yes, people can move freely between Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
Stuff like social security will follow you.

There will be differences in certain legal things like buying a house, because the Scottish legal system is different from the one in England and Wales.

In the Olympics, the United Kingdom competes as one body. Just like the United States, or Argentina or Iceland etc, etc. So it seems that it is one "nation state" with a rather complicated internal organisation. (Not that unusual!).

Wales is the only one that was conquered.
Ireland and Scotland joined the Union of their own free will.

Don't lets get into pantomime exchanges of
"Oh, no they didn't!"
We all know the stuff about "passles of rogues".

If you look at the Union Flag, sometimes called the "Union Jack", you'll see that it is made up of three flags superimposed.


The cross of St George, patron saint of England since the 1270's, is a red cross on a white ground. After James I succeeded to the throne, it was combined with the cross of St. Andrew in 1606.

The cross saltire of St Andrew, patron saint of Scotland, is a diagonal white cross on a blue ground.

The cross saltire of St Patrick, patron saint of Ireland, is a diagonal red cross on a white ground. This was combined with the previous Union Flag of St George and St Andrew, after the Act of Union of Ireland with England (and Wales) and Scotland on 1 January 1801, to create the Union Flag that has been flown ever since.

The Welsh dragon does not appear on the Union Flag. This is because when the first Union Flag was created in 1606, the Principality of Wales by that time was already united with England and was no longer a separate principality.

Yes, it's just like the United States. They even have "state pound coins" just like our quarters. ;)

Thanks oldie! The whole thing really sounds quite similar to Canada - seeing England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland as Provinces. Well actually it sounds like England and Scotland are like Provinces. Wales and Northern Ireland sort of sound like Territories, if they don't have their own gov't.

In Canada there are "Federal" laws and taxes, but there are also Provincial laws and taxes, and things do differ between Provinces. For example Provinces are responsible for Education, Health care Property law, and natural resources. The federal or Canadaian gov't is responsible for criminal law, transportation, trade, money, defence, etc, etc.

So buying a house, to use the same example, can have quite different legal implications in Quebec than Nova Scotia or Alberta.

That might be so in Olympics but in Cricket its the England and Wales Cricket Board, Scotland has its own cricket/football/rugby teams, Wales has its own football/rugby team.....NrIreland is still a debate

saltymuffin, as per my earlier post, it is interesting as head of ''State'' for canada is the Queen

lordofthejungle,
Yes, the Queen is the "head of State" in Canada, in that case "State" refers to the "nation state" Canada, nothing to do with the United Kingdom. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, all have the Queen of England as their Queen, but there is no political connection between the countries themselves.

Could we say that the United Kingdom is a "Nation state"?

Wales does have a devolved parliament but with fewer powers than the Scottish one.
NI is supposed to have an Assembly but it has been suspended until the major parties can decide to work together.

>Could we say that the United Kingdom is a "Nation state"? <

We could, but would we be correct?

((I))

There is no such thing as the "Queen of England". With regard to Canada, Queen Elizabeth II is officially head of state and "Queen of Canada", or to use the complete royal style, as regards Canada: "Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith".

I would also note, that despite recent measures of devolution, the UK is by no means a federal state, as are the United States, Canada and Australia.

laverendrye, you say that the UK is NOT a federal state? Why?

Wikipedia lists The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland as an sovereign "state", along with Canada, the United States, Yemen, etc. Scotland and England are not listed.

They then define the United Kingdom also as a "Constituent Country". See the following link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constituent_Country

Another VERY good link that covers all of these issues!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British...terminology%29

Here is a snippet from this page:

"The United Kingdom is a sovereign state. Its four component parts, whilst having equal rights to elect Members of Parliament on (nominally) the same terms (see West Lothian Question) are sometimes considered to be of different status. This view may be supported by the existence of devolved governments with different levels of power in Scotland and Wales. Due to historical precedence, England, Scotland, and Wales are considered to be countries and nations in their own right (although none of these is sovereign today) (see also Constituent Countries). Wales is also a principality of the United Kingdom (the Prince of Wales is usually the heir to the British throne). Northern Ireland is considered the "junior" partner of the United Kingdom, but ironically, until 1972, enjoyed a far greater degree of self-government than the other constituent parts."

So, it seems to me that the UK is a "Sovereign State", just like Canada, the US, Australia. Scotand and Wales, are countries, but not Sovereign.

This still doesn't completely clear up how Quebec, Ontario or British Columbia are politically any different from Scotland or England. . .