Calamari

Recently we were the targets of ATM identity fraud. Apparently, someone watched me enter my PIN at the supermarket (but not sure) and accessed our checking account (without our cards) and withdrew $500 per day. Since we rarely go to the ATM we did not notice until $3,000 was gone over a six day period. Thankfully we were not travelling at the time. I can only imagine the nightmare if we were in Europe when this took place. Just a word to the wise, crooks no longer need your card because they can make their own. In our case all they needed was our PIN. I have been told by the bank that people sit in their cars and watch with binoculars from across parking lots and as well carry devices in their pockets which record key pad sounds. They use a blank white plastic card, attach a magnetic strip to the back to which they rig a wire attached to a key pad. Once they insert the blank card they enter your PIN number and the bank machine reads the card as valid. Banks find these white cards jammed in their machines usually early in the AM. Our bank promised all funds would be returned in 10 days by law. Here we are exactly 14 days since we filed our report and we still do not have our money back. The VP at our branch is going on vacation and has now referred us to a calling center where we have logged much time on hold. Just thought I would post this here as a friendly warning to all you travelling Fodorites.

TopMan

Quick..tell us which financial institution you USED to deal with and whose VP "went on vacation" so we can take our business elsewhere!

Calamari

I am very tempted to do just that, but first I want my money back. They are only in California if that helps.

TripleSecDelay

Calamari - My wife works in credit. She tells me there are a few key items missing in your report that would allow a thief to actually make this work.
For instance, the PIN number needs an Account number.
More likely, your card was used at a restaurant, etc. as described in the article on Fodor's home page.

Regards,

Calamari

Which article are you referring to?

My ATM card can also be used as a credit card. I always use it as a credit card thus never using my PIN except for that one time at the supermarket. After pushing the credit button the machine continued to ask for my PIN. After three trys the checker asked me to please just use my PIN as the line was growing longer. That would be a perfect scam now that I look back on it. The checker spots someone, has an accomplice near by, signals and makes you use your PIN instead on the credit feature claiming that the machine is not working properly or that they are new...whatever. Meanwhile their accomplice wathces or records your PIN. My bank feels confident that it was the PIN that they used, but we shall soon see. Two of the banks they used had video and the rest of transactions were done at 7/11 ATM's about 100 miles from my home which also which have video.

Amazed

Can you provide, oh I don't know, perhaps ONE web-link that corroborates this "white card/PIN burning" fraud?

Do you believe the magnetic strip on cards contains no unique information?

Calamari

No, I cannot. I am only sharing with you what the VP at my bank told me. We just sat there with our mouths open mostly because the bank knows about how this fraud is being conducted yet has not stayed ahead of the game. I am sure she gave me the abbreviated version of a much more technical crime.

Betsy

Would the bank's initials be WF?

Calamari

No mam.

Croque_Madame

So sorry to hear about your troubles! Hope everything is made right very soon.

Thanks for the warning to always be as cautious as we can possibly be in a world where the crooks connive faster than the good guys can adapt.

got1tiel

key pad sounds?!!!! all they needed was our pin?!!!!this is complete nonsense. to withraw money they must have at least the card number! the pin has nothing to do with the card number! thats why you can change it to whatever you please like 12345.and your next door neighbour can change his to what he pleases,maybe his is 12345 too.whatever you fancy. whoever robbed you obtained your card number. be honest:how carfully do you guard your card number? how many people/cashiers/pump attendants/waiters have seen the card? how many? in many parts of Europe things are still done the old way. they pick your pocket after you visit the ATM.

improbus

It's highly implausible that people were sitting with binoculars and reading your PIN from a distance. Besides, nobody can read the bank account information from the magnetic strip on a card using a pair of binoculars.

There have been actual cases of bogus ATM machines, which read your information and take your PIN. These get strapped overtop of a real ATM machine. After a while, the thief takes the fake machine off the ATM and creates phony cards with the information. I haven't heard of it in a while, though.

I've never heard an ATM key pad make a sound anywhere, except when I've dropped one maybe. The easiest way to get someone's PIN is to look over their shoulder at the supermarket. It's not as impressively high-tech as night-vision goggles from six blocks away, but it's more plausible.

I agree with the last post. The best opporunity for theft is when the victim has the hard cash in an easy place to grab.

You shouldn't let credit cards, bank cards, etc... out of your sight. That's usually when the biggest opportunity for fraud occurs.

Does that post classify as an urban legend?

ira

>Does that post classify as an urban legend?<

Not if it came from Calamari.

There are dishonest clerks in this world who have legitimate access to your debit card number and can see you enter your PIN.

There are ways to copy CC and debit cards.

I have an ATM only card. Can't be used as a debit card.

LoveItaly

Ira, I too have just ATM cards that are not debit cards. But I am confused. Calamari said their checking card was accessed and a total $3,000.00 was withdrawn from it.

My question is, couldn't this also be done with an ATM card that is not a debit card? My thinking is that an ATM allows one to withdraw money from the checking account so -- . Or is there something here I am missing.

Thanks for your advise.

clevelandbrown

Yes, it could be done with an ATM card also. For the best security with an ATM card, I suggest setting up a separate checking account and keeping in it only a small balance; that limits how much can be stolen. My bank allows me to transfer funds between accounts via the internet, so when I will be using the ATM card, I transfer money into that account, then withdraw it by the ATM.

LoveItaly

clevelandbrown, a seperate checking account is a great idea! Thank you for your advice. I will do that next week.
I don't use my ATM much but one hears stories like Calamari that makes one cringe. Thanks again!

Travelnut

A description of how it is done at at ATM:
http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/atmcamera.asp

TuckH

I pay $7.99/mo for my bank's "Fraud Detector Policy". I routinely get calls from them questioning a larger-sized purchase. Before departing for our recent European trip I notified them with specifics about my anticipated use of ATM's, etc.

Had $500 been withdrawn from my account as it was with Calamari, I feel sure that I'd have gotten a phone call that day or the next.

platzman

According to my bank, the Visa check card that I carry has zero liability in the event of theft or unauthorized transactions. My responsibility is to report theft or loss of the card or suspicious debits. Also, Visa will back up the card with emergency cash anywhere in the world within 24 hours, and a replacement card as well.
I hope those aren't empty promises when the chips are down. I suspect its not as easy as it sounds.

TripleSecDelay

Calamari - I remember a college professor who said many times throughout the semester, "I know what I know, but I don't know what you don't know." Sorry if we didn't immediately fill in the blanks for you on the first go-around here.

1. This is the article on Fodor's home page :

http://www.fodors.com/features/nfdis...tt_tipster.cfm

If the link doesn't work, it's in the center of the page under the orange Tipster column, second article title down, under his picture.

2. The information contained in the magnetic strip on the back of your credit card is holds your account number and other info. This is necessary - witht he PIN # - to access your account for valid or fraudulent use.

If you put only your PIN number on this website (or anywhere else), nobody can take your money. If you put only your account number on this website, nobody can take your money.

3. There is a new law in CA (other states?, chime in) Civil Code 1767.9 that requires businesses to print on your receipt only the last 4 digits of your card #, because the electronic transaction has already occurred and they no longer need your card info. If a business makes an impression of the card...that's outside this new law.

4. Your driver's license also has a magnetic strip on the back with personal information that helps the police. Don't allow anyone to "swipe" this through a reader - except the DMV and the police.

5. Two accounts - savings and spending that are linked IS the best way to protect your money. Especially if you are using a card for online purchases, or have one linked to PayPal for eBay transactions. Be sure to be on top of this to avoid bank penalty fees for overdrawn accounts...overdraft protection is a good idea.

6. I think somebody is being overcharged for their Fraud Detector Policy. A little research will lead you to a bank which doesn't charge $8/month for this. Either this person's current bank needs to waive the fee, or the account needs to be moved to another bank. It's really competitive out there.