Hello all! We were busy moving last week, so I haven't been able to respond, but I wanted you to know that right now, we are entertaining ideas for Croatia, Spain and Italy. We want to at least make some plane reservations to where ever we are going early next week, after our next telephone conference with the others. VTTraveler; you mentioned Croatia. One of us had Croatia on the top of his list. We need to figure out if the region he was interested in will have good weather for us (we have decided we will go for the month of October).. I believe it was a large national park of some kind, with a lot of hiking, etc. And Christina, yes, Spain is now on top of our lists, but I don't know if there's enough to DO in Spain, as far as ruins, tours, hiking, sightseeing, etc? Italy is also a viable contender. We hope to be gone a total of about 16 nights, with perhaps 6 nights accommodations at some place, then 5 nights, then 6 nights at the last place… (seeing 3 different areas of Spain, or a combination of the above interests). I loved Greece (Santorini) back in 1985… not sure if Greece is still a possibility or not.
PanenQ, thank you very much for the information on the train ride! That is awesome to finally know which one it is.
I will research all of your contributions. I thank you very much. I'll keep checking in.

PanenQ, thank you very much for the information on the train ride! That is awesome to finally know which one it is.> Yup to me Europe's most scenic train ride and one of jsut a few hours not like the IMO overhyped Glacier Express that takes 8-9 hours all told.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bern...=1600&bih=1075

We spent a few days in southwestern Andalusia in Spain in late February/early March a couple of years ago. Even then, the weather was warm and sunny, which it is pretty much year round.

We flew into Gibraltar, a strange (and to us, enjoyable) anachronism of a place, then drove down to Tarifa, the actual closest point to Morocco. Tarifa is a beach resort, a major kite-surfing destination, and also has frequent ferry service over to Morocco. Close by are terrific Roman ruins, sand dunes, and marvelous white villages in the hills, with orange trees lining the streets. Cadiz, a fascinating and ancient city is close by, and you're a couple of hours from Seville, or a couple hours from Grazalema Natural Park - sharp peaks with lovely villages below, scary-looking Sentenil de las Bodegas - houses built into cliff sides.

It's very affordable, uncrowded, and packs a lot of variety into a small area. You can fly into Malaga if you don't want to bother with The Rock.

A couple of pictures to illustrate...

View from our hotel room, the Hotel Hurricane outside Tarifa. About €120 for a great room - http://gardyloo.us/View%20from%20roo...0Hurricane.JPG

http://hotelhurricane.com/

Baelo Claudia Roman ruins, up the road. Tarifa is one of the oldest cities in Spain. http://gardyloo.us/20120225_19s.JPG

Vejer de la Frontera, one of the nearby hill villages - http://gardyloo.us/20120226_37s.JPG

Kite surfers on the beach - http://gardyloo.us/20120228_17s.JPG

Gardyloo, You've really helped me this afternoon, as far as sitting down to start looking into what SPAIN has to offer. The other day we invested time in Croatia and Italy, and now we want to see what Spain offers.
You have contributed quite a bit, thank you.

"Spain is now on top of our lists, but I don't know if there's enough to DO in Spain, as far as ruins, tours, hiking, sightseeing, etc?"

We spent around 17 days in Spain a few years ago (Extremadura, Andalusia, La Mancha and around Madrid) and could have used more time.

There is also Barcelona and Catalonia and the Basque Country. We thought about a three week trip this year across northern and northwestern Spain, but changed our minds.

Roman ruins around Sevilla and at Merida as well as Romanesque Churches around Barcelona.

You could also hike the Camino from roughly Roncesvalles to Santiago de Compostella if you have a few weeks to spare. But you can start and stop hiking at various points along the Camino if you want.

Several Moorish things to see in Sevilla, Cordoba and of course Alhambra in Granada.

Sevilla and Toledo are two of the most fascinating cities we've been to.

!Espanha los va a encantar a Ustedes! (Spain will enchant you)

"Spain is now on top of our lists, but I don't know if there's enough to DO in Spain, as far as ruins, tours, hiking, sightseeing, etc"

kidding, right?

A key part of the Roman empire, both Christian and Islamic influences, the luxury of the Spanish empire and you cannot find enough to do?

I can't write enough to describe the place, get hold of the Rough Guide to Spain, or even the Fodors book and have a read.

Still not really sure about how much time you have to offer. A good visit to Italy would consume around 4 weeks, the Dalmation Coast easily needs 3 weeks even if you don't go sailing, while Spain needs a similar time to Italy.

How much time are you proposing and what time of the year?

Bilbo--

not everyone (in fact, I suspect only a few lucky ones) has the luxury of a month at a time for vacation; it is worthwhile to break a country up into two week or so segments.

It would take months to see everything Italy, e.g., has to offer: we've spent months there over the years and have yet to see everything we want to see. But we've gotten a lot out of our shorter trips there and elsewhere. E.g.: in two week you can get a pretty good look at Sicily and the Bay of Naples.

Ditto for Spain (Andalusía and Madrid e.g.), ditto for France (Provence and Lyon or the Loire Valley and Paris, e.g.)

OP said they're going in October and later added they would have sixteen nites. That's enough time to do any of the above.

Right, dwdvagmundo, we are targeting October, and 16 nights not including travel days. What do you think about a side trip to Croatia, Dubrovnik area? Two of us initially had interest in Croatia, and being somewhat close to it, I wonder if it'd take too much time away from Italy.
As of now, my interests lie mainly in Northern Italy… Venice (with a side trip to Verona and Vinsenza perhaps), Siena, Cinque Terre maybe Milan but not sure…. since one of the four of us was in Southern Italy but hasn't been to the northern parts.
Shortly, we will be speaking to the others, to get their thoughts… Personally, I know we can spend 16 nights in Italy alone, no problem, but we are taking everyone's thoughts into consideration, and seeing how some were interested in Croatia in the beginning, I wonder if going there is worth it?
Really appreciate all your help. I apologize that I am not knowledgeable on my history very well.. so much for a parochial education - but I'd like to think I will learn on this trip.

I would not try to combine Croatia and le Cinque Terre in the same trip. Also, be aware that past the second week of October, the northwest coast of Italy begins to get a much higher risk of storms. Sometimes it stays fairly dry and pleasant all the way through October. In other years, there have been deluges as early as Oct 9/10 that caused significant flooding, paralyzing everything along the coast -- including shutting down trains/ferries and all hiking trails.

There is a great density of sights to see in the northeast of Italy, including many walled castle towns, so I wouldn't go all the way to Siena, or even Milan. Ravenna would be worth seeing, but otherwise, sticking to the Veneto & Friuli-Venezia-Giulia regions + Croatia would be a doable and highly rewarding trip, dense with historic sights and local color if you know where to look.

Oh, boy! Just when we thought we were making progress!
We were thinking if we left one week sooner than we originally planned and left the last week in September rather than the beginning of October, we could go to Dubrovnik Croatia first, then go to Cinque Terre and perhaps one or two other places.
But maybe the only certainty is Dubrovnik Croatia for the last week in September and we need to rethink Cinque Terre/weather in that part of Italy, thank you Sandralist!
Littlejane, were you in Cinque Terre mostly in September last year?

I was in CT up to mid October. There were some storms alright and we had to keep an eye on the weather forecasts and make sure that we did not take on any long trails if a storm was likely to hit, i.e. to make sure we did not get caught in the middle of a mountain if a storm came. It was very do-able as there were so many different trails one could take.

If you liked Santorini, not sure if it would help if I tell you my 3 favourite places on earth are (in this order) Santorini, Dubrovnik and Cinque Terre. So I'd say you are on the right track and will enjoy the holiday no matter which of your options you pick.

I think you are right to recognise there is a big difference between north and south Italy.

Littlejane, that's so cool that Santorini, Dubrovnik and Cinque Terre (in that order) are your three favorite places on earth!
I hope we can figure out how to best do this so that we can get out of (somewhere in) Croatia and get to Cinque Terre, then either Siena or Venice.
All we know is that we are starting in Dubrovnik, going South to North.
We have a rough itinerary for Croatia (7 or 8 nights) made out but I'm waiting to receive it from the person in our group via email some time tonight.
I guess we should have the last stop in Criatia be in whatever the area is that can get us to Cinque Terre the easiest (least stressful and time-consuming) way possible!
Should we fly, or take a ferry then drive or do a combination of these?
I heard Air Croatia leaves only twice weekly from Dubrovnik to Rome/Venice in October...

I hope we can figure out how to best do this so that we can get out of (somewhere in) Croatia and get to Cinque Terre>

Fly to either Genoa or Pisa as they are short train rides from the 5 Lands.

Thank you, PalenQ. I hope to post a rough itinerary for Croatia soon. We are trying to rough it out so as to see if there's time for Cinque Terre or not. The thinking is that we are probably going to have to save CT for another time,….

mid-October is a little iffy for the CT I think - could be sweet nice sunny weather or coolish rainy making trils mudslips at points.

Croatia at the time of year should be much nicer, especially around Split and Dubrovnik.