Ideas for South of France, Italy - 3 weeks Driving Trip in Dec 2011
 

I am planning to do a driving holiday in December 2011, covering South of France and Italy.

I need suggestions for
- places to stay
- places to see
- detours, off-beat places

Some background: I will be travelling with my wife and 10 year old daughter. We do 2 driving holidays every year and are not averse to plenty of driving. Main interest are natural beauty and quaint villages and towns.

Will spend 3-4 days in Rome and surrounds. I am open to flying into any city to start / end my trip.

Thank you in advance for the suggestions.

Why not research :

Fly into Barcelona
Rent car
Visit Costa Brava
Drop car Girona airport, take www.frogbus.com to Perpignan
Rent French car Perpignan
Visit Pyrenees, coast, Andorra
Continue on A9 through Catalonia to Languedoc
Diversion North to Millau Bridge / Gorge du Tarn / Massif Central / Cevennes
Back to A9 visit Camargue & Provence
Follow coast to Cote d'Azur
Drop French car in Menton
Public transport to Ventimiglia
Rent Italian car
Follow coast to Rome

n.b.

you won't have time to do everything (some spend years just in Languedoc) - so research the most interesting places to view

if you are a fan of islands, you can drive to Italy via Corsica, Sardinia and Sicily. If you were really keen, Malta is close to Sicily !


Peter

Flew in & out of Toulouse. Drove across coast to Monaco/Menton - next town. 4 wks.
Lots to see on this route incl. Carcassonne.
Another trip - 2 wks - flew in/out of Nice. The bus system is fabulous. For 1 euro you can go to any beautiful town on a day trip. We stayed in Cannes and used train/bus. Antibes, St. Paul de Vence and virtually all cities are interesting, well kept, clean and offer much scenery.
I mention the bus system as a break from driving. If you stayed 3 nights or so, in Nice and used the bus it would be a relaxing time for the driver.

Bargème is highest village in the Var and also one of the ‘Plus Beaux Villages de France’ : http://www.les-plus-beaux-villages-d...g/fr/bargeme-0

You should visit the Gorges du Verdon – Europe’s Grand Canyon and maybe stay in Moustiers.

Visit the Parc National du Mercantour by scenic train ride from Nice : http://www.guide2cotedazur.com/infor...er-de-Provence You could stay overnight along the way.

The further inland you travel the more tortuous the routes between the villages, which takes time if you want to cover any kind of distance (the time taken to drive 50km in a straight line is a *fraction* of the time it takes to drive the same distance on undulating, sometimes narrow roads with constant 180° bends).

Agree with Peter mpprh about dropping off cars. If you intend to go inland (which generally means higher altitudes), make sure you request snow chains for the car hire - they are obligatory in some of the mountainous regions at that time of year.

On the coast, stunning drive from St Raphael to Cannes, especially late afternoon with sun low in the sky – red rocks are magnificent. Lots of Christmas markets.

Weather is changeable, could be warm (for us) on the coast, by day but cold by night. We have already had snowfall on the Alps, so you would need very warm clothes for going inland.

Definitely drive from Ventimiglia along the coast in Italy. You should see Florence & Siena as well as Rome … (ooops only got 3 weeks ? ! You’ll have to make another trip)

Start your trip in Marseille or Nice, drive around the Provence (the Michelin Green Guide for the area should give you some ideas of what to see), drop off the car in Menton, train to the Italian town closest to the border where a car rental agency is available and pick up a car there for your Italian portion of the trip.

Be aware that days are short which limits car touring, and that it could be cold and uncomfortable, particularly inland.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...7624404539441/

Thank you so much everyone for the thoughtful responses. My apologies for suddenly disappearing from the scene - had some unexpected travel come up.

I am planning to fly in and out of Milan - flights booked. The trip has been cut down to 17 days now. We fly in to Milan on 16th Dec, early morning and fly out of Milan on 2-Jan early morning.

I am hiring a car in Milan and keeping it for the whole journey - so trying to avoid big cities (except Rome - where we will stay in a place where we can park the car for the 3 days we are there).

So the tentative itinerary is looking like this:

Night Stay Activity
16-Dec Fri Arles Drive Milan - Arles
17-Dec Sat Arles Camagrue area
18-Dec Sun Arles Avignou, Millau Viaduct
19-Dec Mon Nice Drive Arles - Nice via Cassis etc
20-Dec Tue Nice Col De Turini, around Nice
21-Dec Wed La Spezia (not sure) Monaco, Genoa, Portofino
22-Dec Thu Montalcino (not sure) Cinque Terre (floods)?
23-Dec Fri Sorrento Drive to Sorrento via Pompeii
24-Dec Sat Sorrento Drive Amalfi Coast
25-Dec Sun Sorrento Day trip to Naples via train or Amalfi area or Vesuvius hiking
26-Dec Mon Rome Rome
27-Dec Tue Rome Rome
28-Dec Wed Rome Rome
29-Dec Thu Florence ??
30-Dec Fri Cortina Drive to Cortina
31-Dec Sat Bolzano Great Dolomite Road
01-Jan Sun Milan Drive to Milan
02-Jan Mon Milan Early morning flight back

OK - so I know there is a lot of driving involved - but I wanted to do these 4 drives:
- Millau viaduct
- Col De Turini
- Amalfi Coast Drive
- Great Dolomite Road

Any suggestions on activities, recommendations for short hikes, side trips are solicited. A few specific questions:

1. What is the situation in Cinque Terre given the recent floods. Can we manage a few hours of hiking there or is that ruled out.

2. Ideas for Tuscany region stay - 2 nights planned

3. Side trips around Nice area

Any other advice and feedback is welcome. Thanks again for your time!

From what you list, the Millau viaduct is the odd man out. Just skip it this time.

All of this in 17 days - with only about 7 hrs of usable sunlight per day??? Have you kept up this kind of pace before in Europe in the middle of winter?? Do you plan to get out of the car anywhere, between the time when you hit the road in the AM & then stop for the day when it gets dark? (not including Rome).

Not much going on in Avignon on a Sunday in December. Same with Nice on Monday and I imagine Cassis will be quite dead. Could get some bad weather at times - which would not make the Cinque Terre or the Amalfi coast much fun.

I would eliminate about 1/3 to 1/2 of your destinations.

Stu Dudley

IN your time--and in Dec--I would keep a max of 6 destinations. As Stu says, days are short and weather can be iffy. This plan is folly.

Stu - thanks for the comment. Frankly I have never driven in Italy/France. I have done a lot of driving in the US, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa but not that much in Europe. Only a little bit in Germany, Austria, Spain, UK.

I did think about the daylight available - about 9 hours at that time of the year :-) - 7:30 AM to 5 PM - but again not that much idea of the traveling times involved (except for what google maps shows).

Currently planned 3 nights in Arles, 2 in Nice, 2 in Italian Riviera, 3 in Sorrento, 3 in Rome and then the Drive through the Great Dolomite Road - from Rome to Cortina (via a stopover midway in Florence and then to Bolzano. Was planning to stop for two nights in Bolzano or one night each in Cortina and Bolzanno. Maybe can give the Dolomite Road a miss and keep the alps driving for another time (preferably summers!)


What would your recommendations be for cutting down as well as for on places to go.

Thanks again for your help!

If you go as far west as the Gorges du Tarn, which I agree is a reach on this itinerary, consider the Chateau de La Caze. It is a bit pricy, but dinner and breakfast are superb, the rooms are very nice, the owners delightful, and your daughter will love, and be loved by, Pica, the labrador.

It is but a half an hour from the Viaduct de Millau.

I would do:

- 4 nights in Provence (1 night for jet lag)
- 3 nights in Nice
- 4 nights in Tuscany (perhaps a better "bet" in Dec than the Italian Riviera). It will take most of the day to drive from Nice to Tuscany, and I hate the drive through Genoa (lots of tunnels).
- 5 nights in Rome
- 1-2 nights in Florence, or take the train from Rome to Milan to catch your flight home.

I would save the Dolmites for another trip. Stay south!!!

Do you have my Provence/Cote d'Azur or Italy itinerary? I've sent them to over 3,500 people on Fodors. Lots of info about things to do around Provence, Cote d'Azur, Tuscany, Cinque Terre, Amalfi Coast, etc. E-mail me at [email protected] & I'll attach a copy to the reply e-mail.

Stu Dudley

I would not make any hotel reservations for any place in your time frame. This is what Italy looked like last year on Dec 17, 2010, when a blizzard hit from Milan to Rome:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upZu354-0NM

And the year before, 2009, snow was falling on the palm trees along the French Riviera:in the days before Christmas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNNYVu748do

Here is pictures of the snowstorm between Florence and Rome the year before, on Dec 29 2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO7-onsL6XA

Sometimes it never snows between Dec 15 and Dec 30 in Italy, but when it does, the roads are generally closed except for the ski areas. (I know this because I live in Italy year round.)

You should carry with you the means to follow the weather. Be prepared to give up your car and take trains if roads are closed.

Were it me, I would not plan a driving trip during that time frame. Flying into Milan, I would cut out France. I would use the car to see the Dolomiti if the weather is nice, drive it to Venice and then take trains from there to see the rest of Italy. Naples and Pompei can get rather nice weather in December -- but no guarantees. At least you can reach them by train.

Hi,

I just realized that you have your flights booked in and out of Milan. You really cannot count on finding great dry weather on your arrival, and if you are facing poor weather, it is extremely inadvisable to get off a plane in Milan jet agged, get into a car, and drive to France to get over your jet lag as is being suggested by S.Dudley.

You have no guarantees of dry weather in Tuscany, and what you are going to do with a car in Rome for 5 days, I have no idea.

You need to plan your trip around the idea that you need to leave yourself time to get back to Milan in case bad weather strikes in the last days of your trip. It would be best if for the final days of your trip you are somewhere where you can take a train back to Milan if need be. And I wouldn't make hotel reservation for my first nights in France because you really may not be able to get there.

One way to hedge against the possibility of landing in Milan in lousy weather and having paid for a rental car you can't drive is to plan to take the train to Venice immediately from Milano. Once you are in Venice, if you can see that the weather in the Dolomiti is good, rent the car and go. After that, keep chasing the sun, but don't go so far away from Milan you can't get back by car or train. And don't head anywhere, especially not a rural "col" road or
rural village-y area without seeing a 3-day weather forecast for dry skies.

Have a SAFE trip.

>>it is extremely inadvisable to get off a plane in Milan jet agged, get into a car, and drive to France to get over your jet lag as is being suggested by S.Dudley.<<

Yep I agree - I would never drive that much on arrival day. But it was not me that first "suggested" that - it was the OP. He likes driving, seems to be "well traveled", has done his "homework" - presumably knows flight & driving times, and whether he or his wife suffers jet lag on flights from India to Milan.

Stu Dudley

And that his daughter will enjoy 9 hours in the backseat day after day.

Hi Stu and everyone else. I feel suitably chastised! To be honest, I had not realized that the weather can be such a big issue. I thought that we might get bad weather in a part of the journey - but then thought that that is part of the game.

In general, we like long "scenic" drives, getting out once in a while to admire the view, take a short hike. My daughter is equally comfortable with it. Her first drive/hiking trip with us was in Scotland when she was 9 months old - she was in the back seat both while driving and while hiking!

Do you guys really think that weather is a big factor?

A few other points:

- Rome - will park the car for the days we are there(stay in a hotel with parking)

- Assuming we cut down on side trips, 3 days in Arles, 2 in Nice, 2 in Tuscany, 3 in Sorrento and 3 in Rome are too short?

- What is the best town to stay in Provence?

Thanks again!

>>- Assuming we cut down on side trips, 3 days in Arles, 2 in Nice, 2 in Tuscany, 3 in Sorrento and 3 in Rome are too short?<<

Yep - add 1 day to each. Remember, you will loose a day on the drive from Milan to Arles (not too scenic of a drive), and you will also loose a day from Nice to Tuscany (hate those tunnels around Genoa - and plenty of opportunities to make a wrong turn). I would skip Sorrento - which will save you some not-too-scenic driving time too.

>>- What is the best town to stay in Provence?<<

If you were vsiting Provence anytime between March and October, I would suggest St Remy. Arles is not as "centrally" located. However, in December, Arles might have a little more stuff "going on" - so Arles would be a good choice. Avignon would be a good choice also, but I hate driving in & out of the ugly urban sprawl around Avignon (except to the west).

Stu Dudley

why don't you just go skiing?

you could have a great time enjoying the scenery and the weather!