If France Germany and Italy are your top three countries then maybe fly into one of them, not London, unless you also want to spend time there, maybe getting over your jetlag for instance. From London you can get the Eurostar to Paris, and then depending on where else you want to go pretty much travel by train. Maybe rent a car for a few days in each country to give you a bit more flexibility.
The logical country to add to your list is Switzerland, and if you really want one or two more (Really?) then Belgium and/or the Netherlands, or Austria.
If you can manage it fly out of a different city to the one you arrive in to save back-tracking. It may cost a little more but then so does back tracking.
Start north and work your way south at that time of year.

the costly countries are Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark and Switzerland.
The three Baltic countries are pretty cheap
Germany varies a lot where you stay
Capital cities are expensive

I think you need to grab the guys sit in the garden and work out what you really want to see. I find the Rough Guides pretty good but even for 80 days I would look at a zone to visit like northern France, Belgium, Netherlands, western Germany and just focus. Other zones include southern France, Northern Italy, Northern Spain or Italy and the Adriatic or Eastern Germany, Czech, Austria or Scandenavia. Borders do exist but the days of passing from one to the next in most of Europe under the stare of tired officials is mainly gone.

Now that August can go, remember that the south is always warmer (unlike Oz) and don't get fooled into only visiting capital cities, yes they have a lot of museums but they also have a lot of "international c@@p" which you can see at home.

Thanks for not hating all of os for dashing your pland :)

Just throwing this out as a realistic 8 week plan.:

London -- for 1) good flight connections from OZ, 2) Being Aussies maybe some/all of you have some UK connections / ancestors. 3) It can be easier to start a trip there because of language, same side of the road - you won't be driving but even pedestrians can have traffic direction issues especially when jet lagged 4) Amazing military museums and the Churchill Cabinet War Rooms. Not in London but easy by train - the amazing Dover Castle with everything from a Roman lighthouse to WWII connections.

Then a big circle route -- mostly by trains but maybe a flight or two for the really long distances - In either clockwise or anti-clockwise::

Belgium - including Battle of the Bulge sites and REALLY good food and beer,

Neherlands/Amsterdam

A bit of Germany -- You won't have great deal of time so maybe concentrate on just a couple of areas -- maybe Bavaria/Munich or Berlin or ??

Skip over Switzerland -- gorgeous but very expensive plus they were neutral in the War ;)

Italy - maybe 2 cities Rome + Florence or Venice + Rome, plus some Tuscany countryside

Fly to Paris and include a day trip or better yet - a couple of nights - in Normandy

Back to London then fly home.

This would be full but totally doable - after factoring in the travel time between stops you'd have 5 to 10-ish days in each country

if you are doing janisj 's trip I'd substitute Strasbourg, Alsace, Black Forest before Switzerland for dashing over to Munich

You must realize that Contiki, the tours on which you based your first itinerary, is for people 18 to 35, geared to a younger, often party focused, crowd.

Do not toss out a more expensive country if it is one you are truly interested in. Seriously, choose the places you really want to see and then see how you can make it work.

You are planning two months, approximately 60 days. I suggest you plan this trip in blocks of one to two weeks with a day or two of relaxing time in each block. Focus on one or two geographical areas with a base or two for each block. Incorporate individual interests in each block. Allow for separate activities sometimes. If two people are interested in War Memorials and the other two are interested in a beach day or a museum, just split up. Take individual interests into consideration when choosing areas.

Options are endless. A few easy Examples (not itineraries), Thinking in terms of using train travel because it is so convenient, mostly city center to city center.

London and Paris, easy connections travel wise, plus something for everyone, separately or together.

Paris and Provence

London, Paris and Amsterdam make a nice grouping travel wise.

The Netherlands and Belgium make a good small grouping geographically, also with great variety of sightseeing opportunities and easy transportation.

Italy is such a long country with so much to see, it makes sense for it to stand alone. You could make it a great 2&1/2 week block, time for the “big three” of Venice, Florence, Rome plus time in smaller cities, towns and countryside. Or, skip any city or area in which you have little interest.

Don’t remember if Spain or Greece are on your “list” but they each could stand alone as small chunks.

Germany and Austria make a good grouping.

Getting around Western Europe is mostly pretty easy, but will take time, getting to train stations, checking into hotels, etc.

It makes sense to fly into one country and out of another to save backtracking. You want to be in your departure city the night before an international flight. For airfares look at multi-city options. For example, Sydney to Heathrow, second flight Amsterdam to Sydney. Google flights is handy for checking which airlines fly that route but I would book directly with the airline. Don't book flights until you are sure of your trip plan. Flights are not easy to change.

Back in the days of my youth, 1967 to be exact, I started a grand tour of Europe starting in Berlin (visited on other place in Germany) and traveld through Austria, Yugoslavia, Italy Switzerland and France in 10 weeks, spending haf the time in France. I saved time by havinmg my own car, and did not have to depend on public transportation schedules. It was something that could be done when young. Even in your fifties, slowing down may be the order of the day. Map out a rough schedule and itinerary. For example, your interest in military history is centered on W.W. I or W.W. II? Northern France and Belgium would fit the bill (Flanders poppies and Battle of the Bulge). You could even add Napoleonic events to that. That should take up 4 or 5 days, and add a couple of days if you want to visit the Normandy landings area. Within those days, start looking for local tours (?), hotels, restaurants, train and long distance bus schedules to take you to the next venue.

Rather than coming back to London, see if open jaw works as well for you. In other words if you end your tour in Paris, is the savings of a RT over an open jaw ticket eaten up by the cost of travel from Paris back to London?

Get the Green Guide for each country. It will give you what is to be seen historically and monumentally.

I agree open jaw is usually best depending on the final itinerary. I laid a simple loop itinerary in case in/out of Heathrow is substantially cheaper/best schedule.

But for open jaw something like in to LHR > Paris > Belgium > Netherlands > Germany > fly home from Rome would work

I forgot one thing: the Green Guides have, or used to have chosen itineraries for different lengths of time, with a suggestions for overnight stops. But I do not know if a driving itinerary can easily be changed into a public transportation itinerary.

thank you everyone
 

I did a quick trip plan with AI and this is the itinerary its come up with. What do you all think?? Any changes you'd make?

• Days 1-3: Hamburg, Germany
  
  • Visit the Miniatur Wunderland, a miniature world with trains, ships, and airplanes.
  • Take a boat tour of the Hamburg harbor.
  • Explore the Speicherstadt, a historic warehouse district.
  • Stay in a hotel in the city center, such as the Hotel Hafen Hamburg or the Grand Elysée Hamburg.
• Days 4-6: Berlin, Germany
  
  • Visit the Brandenburg Gate and the Reichstag Building.
  • Take a walking tour of the city's historical sites.
  • Visit the Gemäldegalerie, a museum with a collection of European paintings.
  • Stay in a hotel near Mitte, such as the Hotel Adlon Kempinski or the The Mandala Hotel.
• Days 7-9: Paris, France
  
  • Visit the Eiffel Tower and the Louvre Museum.
  • Take a stroll through the Jardin du Luxembourg.
  • Enjoy a picnic along the Seine River.
  • Stay in a hotel in the 7th arrondissement, such as the Hôtel Lutetia or the Le Bristol Paris.
• Days 10-12: Rome, Italy
  
  • Visit the Colosseum and the Roman Forum.
  • Throw a coin into the Trevi Fountain.
  • Climb the Spanish Steps.
  • Stay in a hotel near the historic center, such as the Hotel Hassler Roma or the J.K. Place Roma.
• Days 13-15: Copenhagen, Denmark
  
  • Visit the Tivoli Gardens, an amusement park with rides and gardens.
  • Take a boat tour of the canals.
  • Visit the National Museum of Denmark, which houses Viking artifacts.
  • Stay in a hotel in the city center, such as the Hotel d'Angleterre or the Skt. Petri.
• Days 16-18: Zurich, Switzerland
  
  • Take a boat ride on Lake Zurich.
  • Visit the Kunsthaus Zurich, a museum of modern and contemporary art.
  • Hike up Uetliberg, a mountain with views of the city.
  • Stay in a hotel in the city center, such as the Baur au Lac or the Widder Hotel.
• Days 19-21: Vienna, Austria
  
  • Visit the Schönbrunn Palace, a former imperial residence.
  • Take a walking tour of the city's historical center.
  • Visit the Belvedere, a museum with a collection of Austrian art.
  • Stay in a hotel in the city center, such as the Hotel Sacher or the Park Hyatt Vienna.
• Day 22: Munich, Germany
  
  • Visit the Marienplatz, the city's main square.
  • Take a tour of the Hofbräuhaus, a famous brewery.
  • Visit the Deutsches Museum, a science and technology museum.
  • Stay in a hotel in the city center, such as the Hotel Bayerischer Hof or the Mandarin Oriental, Munich.

Sorry but that is a horrible itinerary (good illustration of why Fodors continually deletes obvious AI posts)

Eight cities each allocated exactly the same amount of time - zig zagging back and forth through seven countries seemingly with no rhyme nor reason. Lay that out on a map and see how silly the itinerary looks.

"Any changes you'd make?" Yes - get a guide book or two and start over from scratch.

“Any changes you’d make?” Is almost a joke.

This is such a wretched itinerary, there is so much bad, there is nothing to work with.
Start with the fact that it gives days in a place with no days of travel in between places. How do they think you will be transported? How long will that take? Are you going as a spirit?
You do not have three days in any place. Another joke?
It allocates the same amount of time no matter how little or how much there is to see.
It has you going to eight cities in six countries in three weeks. It simply does not even work logistically. Would they have you traveling overnights on a bus?

It includes minor sights and random stuff but leaves out what are generally thought to be some of the most important things.
Examples:
In Rome, it leaves out the Sistine Chapel and St Peter’s. It leaves out the Pantheon, yet has you walk up the Spanish Steps. Laughable.
In Vienna, it leaves out St Stephen’s Cathedral.
No point going on with this.

You need to educate yourself by learning more about places and what they have to offer. You should then figure out what sights are of interest to you and to your group. Planning a trip like this requires a lot of work or a travel agent who is really knowledgeable, even to just select a good tour. Do you want to spend a lot of money and time without knowing what you are buying?

That being said, perhaps the above itinerary is perfect for you, but I ask you, “How does this align with the interests of the rest of your group? Are they all really more interested in three places in Germany with no interest in more of Italy? No Venice? What happened to your interest in the war in Belgium and France? Has your interest devolved to only large cities, no important smaller towns, cities, countryside?

wonderfully bad, strange because geography ought to be easy for AI

Thank you all for the assistance. I learned a lot and it was a good reminder to avoid relying on AI.

Restored sassafrass' post #32 which was caught up in the spam filter.

Artificial intelligence is to intelligence as artificial flavoring is to food. Use real intelligence. Buy (horrors!) a few guide books and read about interesting places. Buy (yikes!) a map or two. Educate yourself just a little bit so you can avoid internet idiocy.

You need not to be relying on AI or reviewing group tour itineraries. Instead, all four of you need to be researching, reading guidebooks, etc.. You have well over a year to plan, use it. Start with reading trip reports and other planning threads right on this forum. Or even use the Detinations tab of this main site to read the basics of what a city/country have to offer.

There are hundreds of threads of Aussies on this forum who have planned 8 week trips in Europe and they have been helped. But the difference here is, they had an idea what they wanted to do and see for a basic framework. Right now, and I mean this in the nicest way possible, you are throwing pasta at the wall and seeing what sticks. You do not have to do that.

Even if you want to do a group tour (or multiple ones) - totally fine- the four of you still need to figure out exactly what you want to see and go to before you even go further in developing itineraries.

Just like with traveling, slow down the planning. It does not have to be planned all in a week. Have fun with it.

Yeah, stay away from AI. There is so much wrong with what it provided to you and not by using a non-logical geographical order. I think it's assuming time travel is real. I still stand by my comment to look at some tours that might be of interest. It would follow a realistic geographical order and you don't have to stay at those hotels or even do what they list but at least provides you with an idea that you can tailor. Guidebooks provide suggested itineraries as does Fodors here under the destinations tab at the top. It would be a lot of planning, but people do it all the time and you may have to cut some things out.

AI has actually been misnamed, as far as how it is commonly used. The AI engine looks at how words have been used over a zillion internet pages, then picks words that have gone together. That's fine when you want to know which country London is in, but for actual intelligence such as how to plan a trip that includes London and ten other places, scraping commonly used phrases involving London will lead to the kind of nonsense you have generated. This caveat applies for all other uses of AI. Popular errors get picked up and presented as fact, and AI can and does generate outright falsehoods (called hallucinations). A lawyer used AI to do the research for a brief, which then included non-existent cases, which annoyed the judge (and the client!).

This site, at least for now, uses human intelligence in replies to queries.

As a cute test, ask your AI to include Grand Fenwick and Freedonia in your itinerary. If it doesn't refer you to Netflix, it's making things up.

I read your latest itinerary and thought it was a joke. If you truly want to go to Europe and enjoy your trip, start looking at maps to see where countries and cities are. Get a piece of paper or a spreadsheet, on the left put all your trip dates, one under the other. In the middle column write what you will do during the day. Third column write where you will spend the night. Include time for long flights (eg leave Mon, arrive Tue), include travel between each place, eg half the day on a train leaves you the other half to see something. Be realistic. A list copied from somewhere is not helpful . Use Rome2Rio website for initial transport times and mode of transport. People on the forum want to help but we need more practical input.