lobo_mau

In travel section of Fodors, under Lisbon overview, it's writen that "Portugal gained independence ... in 1640".
This is 500 years inaccurate. Portugal is an independent country since 5th October 1143.

hiddeneurope

Well, scarcely! It is true that the Treaty of Zamora tacitly delimited the extent of Alfonso's kingdom, but that did not by any means make Portugal an independent state. Spain never acknowleged Portugal's frontiers until 1297, and even then Portugal had to endure continuing Spanish domination. I can see where Fodors are coming from when they say 1640 for presumably they are referring to the overthrow of the Mantua regime and the inauguration of the Braganca dynasty, which did include give Portugal, for the first time, a serious measure of independence. Later, of course, there was a brief French occupation, so I think it's hard to sustain your assertion that Portugal has been independent since 1143.
Nicky
http://www.hiddeneurope.co.uk

lobo_mau

Dear Nikky, I think that wikipedia is a more trustful source of information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal
Apart from that, I think your post deserves one comment:
- Back in 12th century, Portugal received the recognition from the Pope, who was the supreme authority over all Christianity. This is a higher criterium of independence that any territorial disputes that might have occurred.

josemacall

Hi everybody:

Portugal did not get independence in 1640 'cause Portugal was independent at that time. It is very common to say that Spain ruled Portugal at that time and for about 20 years, but it isn't true.

Felipe II of Spain was also the king of Portugal (due to dynastic matters as he was son of Charles I, King of Spain, and Maria of Portugal), but it doesn't mean there was an only Kingdom but two.

When Felipe died, there was a King for each country, and never again we've shared a King.

Kind regards from Spain.

lobo_mau

Hi Jose
In fact it was more than 1 king, it was Philip II, III and IV, since 1580 to 1640, but it doesn't change your statement.
I did a quick search over the Internet and all sources point to Portugal as an independent country since 1143. As a curiosity, CIA factbook says the same.
Kind regards from Portugal

josemacall

Yep, you're right, I was talking from a Spanish point of view. It is the same when we talk about Charles I, because he was Charles I and Charles V dependending on Spain or Germany.

All of us know that Portugal and Spain are brother countries but we've been leaving back to back instead of side by side if you know what I mean. I hope this will change in the years to come (in fact, I'm sure it is changing).

Obrigado lobo_mau