I know this is a personal question . . .
 

. . . but everyone here seems to do a lot of travel, some of it quite expensive. So I'm wondering, do you guys have a lot of debt? If so, how do you justify the travel budget? So that no one gets hurt, feel free to post under a pseudonym. <BR> <BR>As for me, we don't have debt other than the mortgage, but the kids will be taking out a lot of college loans if Mom and Dad keep buying airline tickets with what could be their college fund. I have some guilt about that, but not too much. The kids do get to come on the trips.

There was a thread on this board a while back called something like, "is everyone here really rich?" it got to be about 100 responses deep, as I recall. I can't recall one person saying that they were dipping into Jr's college fund for that trip to Nice. Mostly it's clipping coupons, and making travel a priority. For myself, I live in a trailer (which, as a professional, person living in the L.A area, is practically unheard of) Also, we have no children, nor plan to have any. As for debt, the student loans are a lot bigger then the credit cards from travel.

There have been a couple of long threads on this very subject - how do people afford to travel. The answers are as varied as the posters; I'm sure some people go in to debt to travel. Others prioritize their budgets to allow for travel. Others have unique ways of saving for a trip. <BR> <BR>'Buying' a trip is like buying any big ticket item; you can pay cash, you can charge it. You have to decide if you need it, and how you're going to pay for it.

Please see the long, but worthwhile thread "Is everyone here immensely wealthy," which has been sent to the top for you. <BR> <BR>The gist of most of the posts is that travel is not necessarily expensive, and that many people sacrifice other things in order to spend money traveling.

We have enough frequent flyer miles to pay for our trip to Europe this October (from my husband's business travel and a credit card) We did the same three years ago for one free trip and paid for the other. Also I am lucky to have a relative in Germany so when we go there we stay for free. We are not wealthy, don't have much debt, our son is finished with college and we love to travel!

Travel is our therapy...without it, we would go crazy! Both jobs are horrific, but can't afford to quit so we plug along until the next big vacation. Frequent flyer miles usually pays for one ticket, some credit card but always paid in full when received. One kid, out of college and only debt is mortgage. By the time vacation gets here (usually October for one or two weeks) we'd go if we had to walk!

I can now afford to save/budget for travel (but not all our trips are high-end), but it wasn't always that way. When I first started in my present job I couldn't afford much of anything, and I refer to my debt from that time as my ***unnamed employer*** student loans! A significant amount of that was travel. Even though I took much simpler trips then, I still insisted on having vacations, which for me would have to mean travel, every couple of years. I have certainly never regretted it. Obviously one has to be responsible, and realistic about how the debt will be paid off, but I'd rather skip the new car than skip the trip. <BR> <BR>Do see the other thread-- "our" collective priorities become really clear!

Actually, I saw the other thread, and enjoyed it and it was one reason I got thinking about this. Americans have a ton of debt. I was wondering if the people on this forum are atypical and have no debt, or whether we're carrying the same debt load and using the money for travel instead of loan service. So I was trying to pose a different question, but I appreciate your responses. Very interesting.

Travel is important to us, but it makes no sense to be still paying off one trip while we take another -- at least to me. We try to spread the expense of a yearly trip over the year -- prepaying some things before the trip and then paying off the credit card/ATM over the months after it. We are probably losing some money in credit card fees, but we've learned that if we go into savings to pay for trips, we never put the money back in and eventually there are no savings. <BR> <BR>Before our son finished college, we had a mental percentage -- sort of -- that we allowed ourselves about 2-5% take-home for vacations and the same amount for college. I'm sorry to say that if you put it all into college, it all goes to that college and you still have loans. If the savings aren't there, they can't take the money and -- depending on your income level and the school you're talking about -- the financial aid package may reflect that. On the other hand, if we hadn't saved about $30K toward college, we would be hurting now and there would be no trips now. <BR> <BR>I just don't think it's ever wise to owe more than you can pay off within a few months -- car and house excepted -- and even then, you'd better have a good chunk of that debt covered by savings. You never know when you're going to be fired or laid off; you never know what trip you're going to want to take when you're older. But if travel's a priority, just figure it in with food and clothing!

Okay ChargeIt, I'm going to make wild generalization (albeit a flattering one!): I would venture to say that many of the posters here are not "average Americans" in this respect (especially those who aren't even American). Seriously, this is a pretty thoughtful group, and I'm not sure our values are the same. Specifically, many of the posters do not seem to be as consumption-oriented as we are led to believe "everyone" is (I get this from the answers to "Is Everyone Here Immensely Wealthy" and other similar threads). I may be out to lunch, but I'm curious.

I would class myself as NOT consumption oriented, e.g. I drive a 1987 Camry. (My wife has a '97 model.) But, I will not go into debt to take a trip. If I cannot pay for it out of current income, I don't go. <BR>That includes credit card float, too. <BR>I pay off my charge accounts each month. <BR>And I can enjoy Paris without paying $150 for two people to eat. (Now I will pay for good concert or opera seats!!) <BR>

I live in a nice home so when I travel I want something nicer. I like comfort, my own bathroom, and I will pay for it. I fly to Europe or long trips by buying the ticket then upgrading to first or business. I won't, however, go into debt for it.

I know that Americans generally carry lots of debt, but I agree with Robin and Bob that it's likely that many regulars here do not. People willing to make the kind of choices noted in the "are you immensely wealthy?" thread are probably unwilling to pay interest on huge credit card balances. It also seems that many, if not most, of the frequent travellers here do so on a fairly modest budget. <BR> <BR>I rent a small apartment, and make payments on an economy car. No other debt. Live pretty simply here at home. Pay for travel on a card, but do tons of research so that I can do it cheaply yet still enjoy it, and pay my balance in full each month. Earn miles with the card, and should have enough to "buy" my next ticket with those!

As many others posters have commented, it is a matter of setting priorities - or what you want to spend money on. If you don't spend a lot of money eating out, movies, clothes, new cars, etc. you will have money for travel. For me, I will gladly cook and eat at home, wear a few outfits of nice clothes (but not a lot), drive an older model car and wait till movies come out on video in order to be able to travel. For me, traveling is so much more worthwhile. <BR>Martha <BR>

I travel pretty cheaply and am definitely not into spending when it comes to things like cars and clothes and household goods. It's definitely a matter of priorities for me. One thing I've found amusing/annoying is that a number of people I know have no embarassment about enviously commenting about the amount of money I spend travelling. (If they only knew how little it really is -- but, then, they can't *conceive* of staying in accomodations with a shared bathroom!) When I walk into their homes, I wouldn't dream of saying "My, how can you afford such fancy furniture!" or "What a lot of china you have -- how can you afford it?" I might think it, but I wouldn't say it. :-)

About 45 or more years ago, we started accumulating common stocks. A few here, a few there, making money here, losing money there, while always learning from our mistakes. Our only debts were our mortgage. Paying cash from savings while others went into debt. Listening to others brag, watching them drive their fancy cars, seeing them in their boats or mobile homes. Listening to their tales of their lives at their country clubs and their visits to sparkling spas and fancy restaurants. Keeping our mouths shut while educating our kids and supporting our community and church. Today we are debt-free, in good health, and wondering what ever happened to all those people who tried to impress us over the years. We leave soon for Paris. I doubt that we will see them there.

Interesting discussion. <BR> <BR>I'm not a big fan of debt either. But there is a subtle undercurrent of moral superiority on this board sometimes that folks with debt problems are irresponsible louts who caused their own difficulties and deserve whatever they get. My understanding is that the number one cause of bankruptcy in the U.S. is not high living, but catastrophic illness leading to big medical bills. Also overrepresented among the bankrupt are divorced people. <BR> <BR>No, I'm not asking everyone to shed a tear for the bankrupt, and no, I'm not bankrupt. But I do have some sympathy for folks in that situation because I could be there myself if enough things went wrong at the same time. As it stands, we consider ourselves exceptionally fortunate to get by without debt. <BR> <BR>OK, now you can all call me a Softheaded Apologist Liberal.

We have been retired nine years, both with very early retirement. We have never bought on time or used credit cards and have no debt of any kind. In our much younger years we had a mortgage and managed to send one child through college. We travel without tours or go whole hog and use Tauck Tours which more than satisfies us. We saved and saved and made careful investments throughout the years and do not buy what we cannot afford. We have never been overextended and are very down to earth in our wants and needs. Therefore, now, in our early 60s, we can travel as we wish, not often, but when we feel like it.

Some of us are young and wealthy and like to live it up while we can. Life is short, I am a true believer in giving back to my community but also making it a priority to see the world over as many times as I can before I kick the bucket. <BR>And in style too! <BR> <BR>I was raised in a middle class family so I still understand the value of money but it's very clear to me these days that having alot of money to spend on a vacation for things like top restaurants and hotels is something I would never give up. Having money really does make a huge difference when travelling IMO. <BR> <BR>Cheers

We travel a lot throughout Europe and often, our friends in the US wistfully remark how they "would LOVE to go to Europe, someday" (ie. "when we have the money"). But these same people take annual vacations to Hawaii, Mexico, the Carribean...what I think is that many people have this idea that European travel is more expensive than travel to the above places, which is just not true. I also think that many of them are intimidated by foreign languages.

Hi Chargeit: <BR>I have a mortgage, a car loan and one credit card. That card does all my planning for me. I always check the newspapers and inserts in my mail for travel bargains. There are plenty to choose from. I also never charge another trip until the last one is fully paid for. European travel is not as expensive as say a 1 week stay at Disney and is certainly more educational.

No mortgage, no car loan, no credit card balance, no student loans, no wife - no debt. <BR>

Dave: <BR>Do you have any secrets to share about the debt free life you lead?

I just prioritize. I rather be in the worlds greatest museums and architecture, and experience the real culture, then stay in a lux hotel. as for airfare, research, research, research.

And if anybody here was "immensely wealthy" would they admit to it by putting their real name down with their response?

My Secret to a Debt Free Life: <BR> <BR>No one wants to marry me, which leaves me with lots of free time and money. <BR> <BR>Actually, I've been very fortunate, fiscally if not romantically. Although I went to a private college, I was able to pay with scholarships and summer jobs. And as an engineer, I was able to get someone else to pay for grad school (that's also why I'm able to begin sentences with "And"). So one of the major sources of debt in America, student loans, has not been a problem. <BR> <BR>I don't own a house, since I've never wanted to stay in any of the places my jobs have taken me. Someday hopefully that will change but for now, no mortgage. <BR> <BR>My salary is well below 6 figures, but I paid cash for my car (1996 model), and my rent is less than $500/mo. I'm not really into gadgets, so I have a 10 year old stereo and a 13" tv. My only real concession to the electronic age is a laptop computer. I would much rather spend $1500 on a trip to Europe than on the latest digital whatever. <BR> <BR>As has been mentioned above, traveling to Europe is not necessarily much more expensive than traveling (by air) in the US. I've never paid more than $600 for airfare to Europe; I travel by public transport, seldom eat fancy meals, and stay in budget accomodations. I know several people who spend more money on their boats each year than I do on travel. <BR>

I live in the northern suburbs of New York City. My husband and I either take one big vacation each year or two short ones since our company gives us 20 vacation days a year. We've paid off the house in the eighth year of a 15-year mortgage (this was a just-in- case-something-happens move), bought one inexpensive car upfront with cash, pay off our credit cards every month and have no outstanding debt. We do not go out for all the latest toys and gadgets. We still have to get cell phones which we consider as something needed for safety reasons than anything else. In any case, we save. We put aside money for travel, for IRAS, investments, etc. We don't go out to eat unless we're celebrating our birthdays or our anniversary and then it's at a really expensive restaurant (an excuse to dress up, I guess). We maybe see a Broadway show and/or a movie once or twice a year . We don't go on impulse buying (well maybe some small items like nice clothes which we don't really need at the time but are such a good buy). We plan for big purchases and expenses by careful observance and maintenance of what we own now. Of couse, the big thing is that we don't we have children and it's not for lack of trying. Aha! you say. But you do hear of people who don't have children and have huge salaries and still whine about not being able to afford to go on vacation. In any case, we do plan carefully for vacation. We do a lot of price shopping and research before we go on vacation. Often we start planning for the next one about a month after we come back from a vacation. This way we have about a year to plan out the trip and come up with the cash. We're going to Australia late September into October, 2000. We decided on Australia around December, 1999. Right now, we already know we will be going on two short trips to the southern hemisphere in 2001. This not to say that all we do is pore over travel books and the calculator (there is still the laundry to do, lawn to be mowed, house and car to be maintained, etc.) The point is that we plan and save.

Most people who get into a lot of debt ARE irresponsible louts. I should know. I was one of them. The comment about bankruptcy being caused by illness does have some merit--but I doubt most of those people were debt free before their troubles started. <BR> <BR>Most of us who got in over our heads way too deeply were living above our means--maybe by going out to dinner all of the time, or buying a car just a little more expensive than we should, or buying a house before we could afford it, taking trips to Europe we couldn't really afford. It all adds up--little, by litte. You might not think you're being extravagant, and then WHAM! Suddenly your getting cash advances on one credit card to make the minimum payment on the other, or floating checks. <BR> <BR>Having learned the hard way, I now have one credit card, and I only have that so I can rent a car or check into a hotel. I pay cash for everything I can. The only debt my wife and I have is a couple of small student loans (soon to be paid off) and one car loan (paid cash for the other car). We pay for our trips little by little--pay cash for the plane tickets, save up cash for spending money, pay for the rental car and hotel when the credit card bills arrive. That way, you never take a huge hit all at once.

Dave, will you marry me? (That "dr" in front of your name wouldn't happen to mean Doctor, would it?)

If you have a lot of debt, it is tough to travel. And if there is more than one of you, the travel costs go up. However, you can avoid travel debt by prepaying, getting a frequnet flyer charge card (check out a site like www.mileageworkshop.com), and home exchange. It took us three years of saving frequent flyer miles, but last year my family of four went to Europe on three free tickets. You can make a trip to Europe for the same cost as a trip here, and you don't have to stay in only hostels.

I'm in debt. My ex-wife ran up over $40,000 in debt. I have a mortgage but no car payments for the last 16 years. I plan on paying cash for my next extravagant car (probably my last one as I keep cars for 20 years). I have put together a financial plan to pay off the debts, which I'm following religiously, save money for my trips so I do not incur any more debts. Traveled within the US while my son was in school and now back to international travel. I use ff miles to upgrade to business class for the comfort (I'm 6'4" and the cattle car seats are miserable for me). I do have a couple of gadgets (a 60" hdtv to replace my broken one) because I take both my SLR and my 8mm cameras with me and also video my grandchildren and both are great on a large screen. I got lucky in the stock market the last few years so will be able to continue to travel after I retire. I have a decent size house but am renting a room out in line with my financial planning.

never took a loan out, except for the mortgage which is almost paid for, and with 2 children, we started saving money from when they were born, and manage to cross the ocean because we shop around and do home-exchanges ... but we don't own a video, or the last gadgets other people seem to have, and don't have the last models of cars - whatever the income, you have to decide what's your priority !!

I'll admit it. I was $30,000 in debt on my 8 credit cards. How did it happen? I was trying to be something I wasn't. I grew up as the poor kid on the block, and as soon as I hit adulthood I tried to cover it up by surrounding myself with 'nice stuff' (and taking expensive vacations). I was 32 before I realized that nobody cared what kind of 'nice stuff' I had, or where I went on vacation, and if they did they weren't worth knowing. <BR> <BR>I am happy to say that I am now almost debt free ($1200 left to pay off). I managed to get a decent job making 45k, and I cut up all but one of my credit cards. I also live BELOW my means. I'm now one of the better off people on my block.

Darva, <BR> <BR>Before you make any rash proposals, imagine Drew Carey if he were to gain weight and lose his sense of humour. (Also, my initials are DRS; getting a PhD was merely a painful, laborious coincidence:) <BR> <BR>-------------------------- <BR> <BR>On the original topic: <BR> <BR>Obviously, at least some of the people on this website are here specifically to plan a trip. And many of the others are probably here because, like me, they first came to plan and then got hooked. My point is that trip planning and financial planning probably go hand in hand. I doubt that travel is an "impulse buy" for many people on this website, or for most Americans in general. <BR> <BR>Dave

Dearest Dave, I care not a bit about your appearance or personality. I would pledge to be the love of your life, to cook your meals, to rub your back, to never leave your side and to love, honor and obey and all that stuff. <BR> <BR>I have but one desire. Promise me that you won't discard toilets in your front yard.