I hope Bush doesn't ruin my vacation
 

After planning my first trip to london for Nov. 18-25, i learned that Bush will be in the UK during that week....I have also learned that his advisors/officials are requesting that large parts of the city be cut off to the public during his visit. Notwithstanding my personal displeasure about this (which i'll save for another forum), does anyone living in London know where i can find out which areas of London
will be affected or if the top attractions will be closed during this time. please help...i must say that i am extremely distraught given the length of time i've saved and planned for this trip...i would really hope that its not a total bust.

Bummer! Bummer!

Why not try Paris for that period?

easytraveler

No.

Any State Visit inevitably causes a bit of traffic disruption and road closures - not a lot more than normal daily chaos, and generally adding a bit of fun. And the Tube should run normally anyway.

This one is unusual because the "debate" between the Metropolitan Police and the Secret Service is still going on, because the Met has announced that many details will be kept secret, and because some of the anti-war protestors are exaggerating the confusion, and purposely giving the (wrong)impression that restrictions on where they can march are restrictions on where you and I can go and watch.

See it all as Nature's way of teaching you never to over-plan. There'll probably be some announcements on closures in the media on the day, so simply stay flexible.

I know that this can be a big disappointment. After all my planning and paying big bucks, my trip to Athens, Greece was almost ruined by a European Union meeting held there this past April. The local police had all the streets closed, and all the major sites like the Acropolis were closed as well for security reasons. Luckily, the meeting only lasted for a day and a half, but I couldn't do anything except walk around the Plaka that day (which isn't a bad thing).

Your inconvenience will be minor compared to the thousands this man, who was never really elected President of the US, has sent to their deaths needlessly. This is what will cause the demonstrations by well meaning British people who can't understand how this was allowed to happen by their government.

And then, of course, there is the traditional paranoia of American officials who like to micro manage everything in the name of "security." Living in New York, we have to put up with this all the time every time Bush comes to NY. It is part of the deal.

I had not heard about Bush visiting..I will be there the 20-24-is he suppose to be there the full week? yikes thanks

Regardless of your feelings about President Bush, you must remember that this is Europe, where assination is (unfortunately) still regarded by some as a legitimate instrument of political expression. The murders of Anna Lindh and Pim Fortuyn, and the recent attempt to murder President Chirac, suggest that the Secret Service is simply being prudent.

On another note, the news article that I read implied (although did not explicitly state) that the street closures will only be in place for Nov 20.

I think he's here for 3 days in all.

This visit is causing a big fuss here in the UK. I've just been watching the news, and apparently there's a major row going on between the mayor of London and the security services. Demonstrators want to march, but the US fear a security risk (terrorist disguised as demonstrator) and want to put a big exclusion zone around the President which would seal off large parts of central London (reportedly).

However the Mayor is saying no way - you can't just come here and shut down our city, and it would have a major economic impact on London.

Even Tony Blair admitted in Parliament yesterday that the people have a democratic right to protest. There's been suggestions that, with election year approaching, Bush doesn't want the bad publicity.

Suggest you keep an eye on the news bbc.co.uk and keep checking the Evening Standard (daily London newspaper) when you get here for news of disruptions.

I am going to be a grumpy old thing but please can we avoid saying London, England, Paris, France, Athens, Greece.
On a European forum, we can surely assume that you are going to the Athens in Greece, not a town in the USA named after it.
I can't be the only person riled by this.

While it may be true that the last murder of a British Prime Minister occured nearly two centuries ago, I seem to recall a much more recent murder of one of the royal uncles. I believe that he was blown up while on his boat.

I still think it is wise for the Secret Service to assume the worst.

He had better be careful if he has a press conference at No. 10. As Prime Minister Hugh Grant =-o shows, the "special relationship" isn't a sure thing.

I am sure there are numerous "top attractions" that will be untouched by the Presidential visit. Or plan to get out of town for a day or two (always a good idea) while he's about. As another poster said, how about Paris? Cheaper to visit than London, anyway, and it's certain GWB (which incidentally is also the abbreviation for "gypsum wall board," or sheetrock) won't be spending any time soon in France.

A final note - try using the "preview" button, people, then proofread. There's no spell checker here but many of us need one.

Winnepeg, you're right. I would never agree that a "lot" of the problems we are having could be "directly" linked to the Clinton administration. Sounds like you've overdosed on right wing talk radio, where Clinton is blamed for everything. No doubt the right wing's favorite junkie, Rush Limbaugh, will find a way to pin his drug addiction on Clinton too.
But we WOULD agree that a LOT of the current problems could be DIRECTLY linked to actions of the first Bush administration and to Reagan as well.
Mar ty, too bad that Bush has to ruin your vacation with his grandstanding. Still, your first trip to London will certainly be different from the average trip and you'll have lots to talk about when you get home! Take some photos of the protests (just in case you meet Bush someday and you can show him not everyone agrees with him...by his own choice and his handlers' design, he keeps far, far away from anyone who doesn't constantly tell him he's the greatest thing since sliced bread).
FYI, I'd have a LOT more respect for our Commander in Thief if, during his time to serve the country during the Vietnam War, he showed even a TENTH of the courage and integrity our troops in Iraq show every day.

jennyjump, when you say "commander-in-thief", are you referring to the Clintons stripping the White House bare when they left? In addition to all those expensive "gifts" that they furnished thier new houses and apartments with, I heard they even took out the light bulbs and packed half-used toilet paper rolls.

Of course, the money from thier speaking engagements and book deals gave them mere pocket change - no more than 12 million.

Guys guys can we keep this thread to the topic - how Bush's visit will affect tourism in London. A very reasonable question for a travel forum. None of us have any desire to hear your one sided rantings. Now go sit in the corner, both sides, and don't comment until you have some news on traffic congestion around trafalgar Square.

(smueller: Lord Mountbatten wasn't assasinated in London, and he was killed just a few years before the attempted assasination of Reagan, and the assasination of Lennon in NY, so perhaps not such a European disease after all?)

My my, I was not prepared for the chaos that followed my initial thread...my topic title does not mean that i personally think bush personally is going to ruin my vacation...i was concerned because the news reports state that it is HIS people whom seem to be vying for the exclusion zone which seemed a bit odd since he is a guest....but nevermind....
there are obviously some very misguided people,who, at the mere mention of Bush took to ranting and attacking my post..I was not trolling, i did not want to create drama, i simply wanted to know what to expect. thanks to those who attempted to answer my question without the political mumbo-jumbo...

mar_ty, we were in London in March when there was a demonstration in Trafalgar Square by Palestinians and/or Israelis. There was a huge police presence because of the danger of confrontation and vehicle traffic was banned on Whitehall from Westminster to Trafalgar and on The Mall from Carlton House Terrace. We had no difficulty walking up Whitehall to Trafalgar and out thru Admiralty Arch onto The Mall and from there to Piccadilly Circus. In a number of places the police had surrounded small groups of activists.

As previous posters have said, London is huge, the police are trained in crowd control and you should have no significant disruption to your visit.

Anyone know where Air Force will land? Heathrow, Gatwick or some special airstrip for dignitaries?

I only ask because we're scheduled to land at Gatwick on Nov. 19 and I've personally been at airports in the US when the President comes in and it's been awful. We were stuck literally in one spot for almost 2hrs as the President flew in, landed, left, etc. They don't let anyone or anything move until he is safely from the area.

His landing site is probably kept secret, but I thought I'd ask in case anyone knows to see if I need to prepare my family for a delay.

If he puts a damper on your trip you could suspend if from the Tower Bridge in a clear box and sell eggs to throw by the dozen to recoup your losses. :-d

My son observed the May Day demonstrations in London in 2001, when 5,000 demonstrators were kept in check by 4,000 London police. By contrast, Bush's visit is expected to attract a crowd of at least 100,000 angry protestors.

This is what my son had to say about the effect of the small demonstration he observed May 1, 2001:

"Two major impacts were felt from the May Day protests. The streets in central London were barren of car and pedestrian traffic for most of the day, a sight one never sees in the city.

"And most McDonalds and Starbucks were boarded up, anticipating a hurricane of anger to burst forth upon them similar to last year when many McDonalds restaurants in central London were torched.

"Apparently Burger King is not as much of an icon of globalism and capitalism, because a block from Oxford Circus, where the police had penned in thousands of demonstrators for seven hours of implied arrest, Burger King was serving Whoppers to the hungry idealists. With cheese, no onion, heavy ketchup, please. Oh, and down with factory farming, capitalist pig. Can I have extra napkins, please?

"Huge portions of London were boarded up in anticipation of costly potential destruction. Banks and retailers throughout the region were closed.

"Cash machines were emptied of their cash for the day.

"Historic statues throughout the area had been boarded over as well to prevent damage and mischief. One of the most famous photos from last year was a statue of Churchill (I believe) with a dayglo green mohawk glued to his head. Seen as entirely improper for this uptight town."

I can't help but think Bush's visit will result in more than a little blip on the radar screen of daily life in London. I'd at least plan to spend the 18th to the 20th far away from Trafalgar Square, Buckingham Place, and any place else the protestors might track him down.

Bush's presence in London (I'm going to be there too) will have nothing to do with whether or not you allow that to ruin our trip. You'll just have to be your usual, flexible self and since, so far, nobody here seems to know for sure what areas of the city will be affected I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

I do not agree that this sort of thing "adds a bit of fun" as FlannerUK has asserted...it is a pain in the ass pure and simple but I guess we'll just have to make the most of it.

Yes, 100,000 protestors have the ability to create quite a disruption--we have seen that first hand here in Brussels.
It's too bad the Bush administration hasn't shown more sensitivity to Blair's current precarious political status and the undercurrents of anti-American (or anti-US government) policies--any serious disruptions to Londoners is only going to inflame passions further. The gracious thing to do would have been to send out signals that they didn't WANT a state visit or to gently decline the invitation, suggesting a state visit would be more appropriate when the war had wound down to the point that most British troops were back home. Even the most ardent admirers of Bush can't really say his Administration has been noted for its grace or sensitivity to others, particularly its allies.

Just hope you aren't in the air when the pres arrives! We were at the Santa Fe, NM airport when he arrived. It seems they don't announce his arrival in advance for security reasons, and so those planes in the vicinity are put is a holding pattern in advance of his landing and until he is safely deplaned. Reportedly people were airsick from circling for quite a lengthy period.

Some further observations:
- The visit is planned for Nov 18-21
- The reason the May 2001 demonstrations were so heavily controlled was that 100,000 people were predicted for them too. There's a cycle to these things: they get hyped, most of us avoid the area, so crowds are below expectations. And you can always rely on November weather to rain on any parade.
- But if you were close to those 4000 people, you would have had a tough time. Whereas if you were anywhere near the 500,000 or so demonstrating last winter for fox hunting, or against the Iraq invasion, you'd have had an enjoyable time. Moral: small, hard-core demos are a lot nastier than really big ones. Avoid them
- The Metropolitan police is reported in The Times this morning as saying it will announce each day's road closures that morning. It is clearly keeping most arrangements secret, so there is a limit to how far visitors can advance plan. All today's papers report that there will be no event in The City, so the Tower looks unaffected
- It's important to remember that a lot of the "London will be chaos" stories come from anti-Bush sources (like Ken Livingston), for whom this visit is an opportunity to find fresh sticks to hit both Vlair and Bush with
- Fodors seems to have censored other speculations about the route. But it's very unlikely he'll use a public airport (and you're likely to be kept in a holding pattern over London any day of the year). I can't see him being near the major museums, though access to the Abbey might be tricky on some days.
- State Visits CAN be fun. We have a standard process for this: whether it's the Sheikh of Abu Dhabi or POTUS, The Mall gets decorated (it is already), and there's lots of soldiers on horses and all the rest. Don't go out of your way to avoid it.
- Cities are about disruptions. Life was disrupted yesterday for the Two Minutes' Silence. Oxford St will be closed on Nov 21 anyway for the Christmas Lights ceremony. The processional area from the Palace to Parliament will be closed briefly the week after Bush' visit for the State Opening of Parliament. And there'll be no end of bad weather, broken-down buses, passengers jumping in front of trains, or idiot Americans starving themselves in public and stopping the traffic. Life. What happens in big cities.

As the old joke has it: "How do you make God laugh? Tell Him your plans". Whatever bit of London gets closed, there's a lot worth doing in the 99% of it that won't be.

First of all, Bush will most likely land at one of the many U.S military bases surrounding London so I doubt there will be any airport problems. Second of all, why not take advantage of the situation? Grap a picket and go make your disatisfaction heard. What a great oppurtunity for you!

Food for Thought

population of Great Britain: 60,000,000
numbers demonstrating: 500,000

percentage participation: .83

Claim of demonstrators: "We represent The People...."

You are right, this is a travel forum.

You are right, this is a travel forum, and this isn't the place to discuss what makes, or doesn't make, an effective protest. My apologies.

You can always take this opportunity to do a sidetrip out of London, say to Bath, Cambridge, or Oxford, if you are concerned.

CNN World Edition just released the following projected make up of the crowd of London "demonstrators". It looks to be fairly typical for these kinds of far left events:

05% POLs looking for votes

15% horny guys looking to get lucky

05% horny girls looking to get lucky

10% emergency resposnse personnel

10% lost tourists

15% bored and curious citizens

15% news crews

10% thieves and pickpockets

10% office workers going to/from work

05% fruitcake activists with no lives

Now that was funny, Degas.