mar_ty

After planning my first trip to london for Nov. 18-25, i learned that Bush will be in the UK during that week....I have also learned that his advisors/officials are requesting that large parts of the city be cut off to the public during his visit. Notwithstanding my personal displeasure about this (which i'll save for another forum), does anyone living in London know where i can find out which areas of London
will be affected or if the top attractions will be closed during this time. please help...i must say that i am extremely distraught given the length of time i've saved and planned for this trip...i would really hope that its not a total bust.

easytraveler

Bummer! Bummer!

Why not try Paris for that period?

easytraveler

flanneruk

No.

Any State Visit inevitably causes a bit of traffic disruption and road closures - not a lot more than normal daily chaos, and generally adding a bit of fun. And the Tube should run normally anyway.

This one is unusual because the "debate" between the Metropolitan Police and the Secret Service is still going on, because the Met has announced that many details will be kept secret, and because some of the anti-war protestors are exaggerating the confusion, and purposely giving the (wrong)impression that restrictions on where they can march are restrictions on where you and I can go and watch.

See it all as Nature's way of teaching you never to over-plan. There'll probably be some announcements on closures in the media on the day, so simply stay flexible.

KE1TH

I know that this can be a big disappointment. After all my planning and paying big bucks, my trip to Athens, Greece was almost ruined by a European Union meeting held there this past April. The local police had all the streets closed, and all the major sites like the Acropolis were closed as well for security reasons. Luckily, the meeting only lasted for a day and a half, but I couldn't do anything except walk around the Plaka that day (which isn't a bad thing).

xyz123

Your inconvenience will be minor compared to the thousands this man, who was never really elected President of the US, has sent to their deaths needlessly. This is what will cause the demonstrations by well meaning British people who can't understand how this was allowed to happen by their government.

And then, of course, there is the traditional paranoia of American officials who like to micro manage everything in the name of "security." Living in New York, we have to put up with this all the time every time Bush comes to NY. It is part of the deal.

Buffyhart

I had not heard about Bush visiting..I will be there the 20-24-is he suppose to be there the full week? yikes thanks

smueller

Regardless of your feelings about President Bush, you must remember that this is Europe, where assination is (unfortunately) still regarded by some as a legitimate instrument of political expression. The murders of Anna Lindh and Pim Fortuyn, and the recent attempt to murder President Chirac, suggest that the Secret Service is simply being prudent.

On another note, the news article that I read implied (although did not explicitly state) that the street closures will only be in place for Nov 20.

Kate

I think he's here for 3 days in all.

This visit is causing a big fuss here in the UK. I've just been watching the news, and apparently there's a major row going on between the mayor of London and the security services. Demonstrators want to march, but the US fear a security risk (terrorist disguised as demonstrator) and want to put a big exclusion zone around the President which would seal off large parts of central London (reportedly).

However the Mayor is saying no way - you can't just come here and shut down our city, and it would have a major economic impact on London.

Even Tony Blair admitted in Parliament yesterday that the people have a democratic right to protest. There's been suggestions that, with election year approaching, Bush doesn't want the bad publicity.

Suggest you keep an eye on the news bbc.co.uk and keep checking the Evening Standard (daily London newspaper) when you get here for news of disruptions.

Sylvia

I am going to be a grumpy old thing but please can we avoid saying London, England, Paris, France, Athens, Greece.
On a European forum, we can surely assume that you are going to the Athens in Greece, not a town in the USA named after it.
I can't be the only person riled by this.

smueller

While it may be true that the last murder of a British Prime Minister occured nearly two centuries ago, I seem to recall a much more recent murder of one of the royal uncles. I believe that he was blown up while on his boat.

I still think it is wise for the Secret Service to assume the worst.

Gardyloo

He had better be careful if he has a press conference at No. 10. As Prime Minister Hugh Grant shows, the "special relationship" isn't a sure thing.

I am sure there are numerous "top attractions" that will be untouched by the Presidential visit. Or plan to get out of town for a day or two (always a good idea) while he's about. As another poster said, how about Paris? Cheaper to visit than London, anyway, and it's certain GWB (which incidentally is also the abbreviation for "gypsum wall board," or sheetrock) won't be spending any time soon in France.

A final note - try using the "preview" button, people, then proofread. There's no spell checker here but many of us need one.

jennyjump

Winnepeg, you're right. I would never agree that a "lot" of the problems we are having could be "directly" linked to the Clinton administration. Sounds like you've overdosed on right wing talk radio, where Clinton is blamed for everything. No doubt the right wing's favorite junkie, Rush Limbaugh, will find a way to pin his drug addiction on Clinton too.
But we WOULD agree that a LOT of the current problems could be DIRECTLY linked to actions of the first Bush administration and to Reagan as well.
Mar ty, too bad that Bush has to ruin your vacation with his grandstanding. Still, your first trip to London will certainly be different from the average trip and you'll have lots to talk about when you get home! Take some photos of the protests (just in case you meet Bush someday and you can show him not everyone agrees with him...by his own choice and his handlers' design, he keeps far, far away from anyone who doesn't constantly tell him he's the greatest thing since sliced bread).
FYI, I'd have a LOT more respect for our Commander in Thief if, during his time to serve the country during the Vietnam War, he showed even a TENTH of the courage and integrity our troops in Iraq show every day.

dumas1870

jennyjump, when you say "commander-in-thief", are you referring to the Clintons stripping the White House bare when they left? In addition to all those expensive "gifts" that they furnished thier new houses and apartments with, I heard they even took out the light bulbs and packed half-used toilet paper rolls.

Of course, the money from thier speaking engagements and book deals gave them mere pocket change - no more than 12 million.

Kate

Guys guys can we keep this thread to the topic - how Bush's visit will affect tourism in London. A very reasonable question for a travel forum. None of us have any desire to hear your one sided rantings. Now go sit in the corner, both sides, and don't comment until you have some news on traffic congestion around trafalgar Square.

(smueller: Lord Mountbatten wasn't assasinated in London, and he was killed just a few years before the attempted assasination of Reagan, and the assasination of Lennon in NY, so perhaps not such a European disease after all?)

mar_ty

My my, I was not prepared for the chaos that followed my initial thread...my topic title does not mean that i personally think bush personally is going to ruin my vacation...i was concerned because the news reports state that it is HIS people whom seem to be vying for the exclusion zone which seemed a bit odd since he is a guest....but nevermind....
there are obviously some very misguided people,who, at the mere mention of Bush took to ranting and attacking my post..I was not trolling, i did not want to create drama, i simply wanted to know what to expect. thanks to those who attempted to answer my question without the political mumbo-jumbo...

jsmith

mar_ty, we were in London in March when there was a demonstration in Trafalgar Square by Palestinians and/or Israelis. There was a huge police presence because of the danger of confrontation and vehicle traffic was banned on Whitehall from Westminster to Trafalgar and on The Mall from Carlton House Terrace. We had no difficulty walking up Whitehall to Trafalgar and out thru Admiralty Arch onto The Mall and from there to Piccadilly Circus. In a number of places the police had surrounded small groups of activists.

As previous posters have said, London is huge, the police are trained in crowd control and you should have no significant disruption to your visit.

MelissaH

Anyone know where Air Force will land? Heathrow, Gatwick or some special airstrip for dignitaries?

I only ask because we're scheduled to land at Gatwick on Nov. 19 and I've personally been at airports in the US when the President comes in and it's been awful. We were stuck literally in one spot for almost 2hrs as the President flew in, landed, left, etc. They don't let anyone or anything move until he is safely from the area.

His landing site is probably kept secret, but I thought I'd ask in case anyone knows to see if I need to prepare my family for a delay.

panhandle

If he puts a damper on your trip you could suspend if from the Tower Bridge in a clear box and sell eggs to throw by the dozen to recoup your losses.

Mary_Fran

My son observed the May Day demonstrations in London in 2001, when 5,000 demonstrators were kept in check by 4,000 London police. By contrast, Bush's visit is expected to attract a crowd of at least 100,000 angry protestors.

This is what my son had to say about the effect of the small demonstration he observed May 1, 2001:

"Two major impacts were felt from the May Day protests. The streets in central London were barren of car and pedestrian traffic for most of the day, a sight one never sees in the city.

"And most McDonalds and Starbucks were boarded up, anticipating a hurricane of anger to burst forth upon them similar to last year when many McDonalds restaurants in central London were torched.

"Apparently Burger King is not as much of an icon of globalism and capitalism, because a block from Oxford Circus, where the police had penned in thousands of demonstrators for seven hours of implied arrest, Burger King was serving Whoppers to the hungry idealists. With cheese, no onion, heavy ketchup, please. Oh, and down with factory farming, capitalist pig. Can I have extra napkins, please?

"Huge portions of London were boarded up in anticipation of costly potential destruction. Banks and retailers throughout the region were closed.

"Cash machines were emptied of their cash for the day.

"Historic statues throughout the area had been boarded over as well to prevent damage and mischief. One of the most famous photos from last year was a statue of Churchill (I believe) with a dayglo green mohawk glued to his head. Seen as entirely improper for this uptight town."

I can't help but think Bush's visit will result in more than a little blip on the radar screen of daily life in London. I'd at least plan to spend the 18th to the 20th far away from Trafalgar Square, Buckingham Place, and any place else the protestors might track him down.

JonJon

Bush's presence in London (I'm going to be there too) will have nothing to do with whether or not you allow that to ruin our trip. You'll just have to be your usual, flexible self and since, so far, nobody here seems to know for sure what areas of the city will be affected I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

I do not agree that this sort of thing "adds a bit of fun" as FlannerUK has asserted...it is a pain in the ass pure and simple but I guess we'll just have to make the most of it.