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How to visit Burg Hohenzollern within my itinerary?

How to visit Burg Hohenzollern within my itinerary?

Old Jan 24th, 2021, 11:30 AM
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https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schl...n_(Württemberg)

If you mean the above, then of course Sargans is way off your course and I apologize for the confusion.
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Old Jan 24th, 2021, 02:44 PM
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Yes, there are taxis at the station in Mainz, it's a busy station with a small shopping centre above it and plenty of taxis on both sides. And yes, buses are covered by the VRM (in this area it's VRM, across the river in Hessen it's RMV). Here is the website: https://www.vrminfo.de/en/tickets/ti...ingle-tickets/ .

You might find the Eurail Pass is not worth it if you are prepared to do all the costings with bahn.com beforehand, and you seem to have a good idea of where you will be going so that shouldn't be difficult. I don't think Eurail is valid for city buses or trams (or metro, but I don't think that applies in your set of destinations anyway). However, there are often local tickets you can buy that will be worth it like the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket, which are value for money and allow you to hop on and off: https://www.seat61.com/how-to-use-a-...-point-tickets . From Mainz to Tübingen I would just buy a point to point as you aren't hopping on and off. I don't know anything about local tickets in and around Strasbourg or Luxemburg but maybe someone else here will know a cost-effective solution.

Lavandula

Last edited by lavandula; Jan 24th, 2021 at 03:34 PM. Reason: changed Rhein-Main to Rheinland-Pfalz, just a goof-up
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Old Jan 24th, 2021, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by tomboy View Post
Originally Posted by Swabian View Post
@tomboy Esterhazy in Hungary and Schönbrunn in Austria aren't castles but palaces.

Just for my edification, what's the difference? Age? Construction? Purpose? Builder?
Hi Tomboy, I am not sure about the definition of a castle in the English-speaking world but I can speak to the difference between Burg and Schloss - a Burg is a castle or fortress (eine Festung) and is set up to defend borders (like the Rhine, which is why you see them on hilltops). A Schloss is somewhere where a noble family lived and is supposed to be representative of wealth and status and they are therefore decorative (and often big). Most of the Schlösser were built later (15 - 16th century), and some of the Burgen were converted to Schlösser. A Palast is a city-based grand house like a Schloss, where wealthy families lived. You get a lot of residential buildings in Vienna and Bratislava that are called 'Palast', but are really only the size of multi-family apartment buildings. Please correct me if I am wrong!

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Old Jan 24th, 2021, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by lavandula View Post
Yes, there are taxis at the station in Mainz, it's a busy station with a small shopping centre above it and plenty of taxis on both sides. And yes, buses are covered by the VRM (in this area it's VRM, across the river in Hessen it's RMV). Here is the website: https://www.vrminfo.de/en/tickets/ti...ingle-tickets/ .

You might find the Eurail Pass is not worth it if you are prepared to do all the costings with bahn.com beforehand, and you seem to have a good idea of where you will be going so that shouldn't be difficult. I don't think Eurail is valid for city buses or trams (or metro, but I don't think that applies in your set of destinations anyway). However, there are often local tickets you can buy that will be worth it like the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket, which are value for money and allow you to hop on and off: https://www.seat61.com/how-to-use-a-...-point-tickets . From Mainz to Tübingen I would just buy a point to point as you aren't hopping on and off. I don't know anything about local tickets in and around Strasbourg or Luxemburg but maybe someone else here will know a cost-effective solution.

Lavandula
Thanks for those tips. I’ve calculated all my train times and added up point to point fares using bahn.de. The prices added up to very close to the 10 day Eurail ticket, but now I’ll recalculate using the regional tickets. A split of 3 or so days on the regional ticket with a one day to Tübingen supplemented with a 4-5 day Eurail for the rest of the trip may add up.
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Old Jan 24th, 2021, 10:23 PM
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I just also saw that there is a variant of the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket that is usable in Luxemburg for all buses and trains. It's in the German website of bahn.de but not in the English pages. Use Google Translate to look at them. I think ordinarily you would have to start off in Germany (not that it says this but you would need a German conductor to punch your ticket, I would think???) but since you can buy this from the internet perhaps this is not the case. You would have to ask Deutsche Bahn what their rules are:

https://www.bahn.de/p/view/angebot/r...014_lt-rp_LZ01
https://fahrkarten.bahn.de/privatkun..._LUX_LZ08#stay

Just might make the later part of your trip to Trier and Cochem a bit easier or cheaper if you don't opt for the Eurail pass (which on the other hand might just save mucking about). I am assuming all your travel there will be either in Luxemburg or R-P.

Lavandula
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Old Jan 25th, 2021, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by lavandula View Post
I just also saw that there is a variant of the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket that is usable in Luxemburg for all buses and trains. It's in the German website of bahn.de but not in the English pages. Use Google Translate to look at them. I think ordinarily you would have to start off in Germany (not that it says this but you would need a German conductor to punch your ticket, I would think???) but since you can buy this from the internet perhaps this is not the case. You would have to ask Deutsche Bahn what their rules are:

https://www.bahn.de/p/view/angebot/r...014_lt-rp_LZ01
https://fahrkarten.bahn.de/privatkun..._LUX_LZ08#stay

Just might make the later part of your trip to Trier and Cochem a bit easier or cheaper if you don't opt for the Eurail pass (which on the other hand might just save mucking about). I am assuming all your travel there will be either in Luxemburg or R-P.

Lavandula
This is great. Let me see if I understand correctly. The RMV ticket would cover my travels from Frankfurt Airport-Mainz, Mainz-Bingen, Braubach-St Goarhausen, St Goar-Mainz, Mainz- Speyer, Speyer-Heidelberg and Heidelberg-Mainz ?

I think I’m confused. On mobile currently, will try to give it another look when I can get on desktop with better translation.

edited to add airport

Last edited by SamRothstein; Jan 25th, 2021 at 03:58 AM.
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Old Jan 25th, 2021, 07:28 AM
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Everything is specified in the linksk sent be lavandula:
The Rheinland-Pfalz Ticket Lux is valid 1 day and costs 24 EUR for 1 adult and 29 EUR for 2 adults; kids up to 14 years are free. It's valid in slow trains only.
The ticket its valid in the Land Rheinland-Pfalz and beyond it up to Bonn, Luxemburg (whole country), Wissenbourg and Lauterbourg (both in Alsace), Mannheim and Karlsruhe.
It's NOT valid between Mannhem and Heidelberg and may be not for trips to and from Frankfurt airport.
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Old Jan 25th, 2021, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by tomboy View Post
Originally Posted by Swabian View Post
@tomboy Esterhazy in Hungary and Schönbrunn in Austria aren't castles but palaces.

Just for my edification, what's the difference? Age? Construction? Purpose? Builder?
I'm German. In the German language there is a clear distinction between Burg (castle) and Schloss (palace). Burgen (plural of Burg) are fortified buildings mostly on hills and if there are no hills there often is a moat around them. Burgen were built in the Middle Ages before the invention of fire weapons. Schlösser (plural of Schloss) were built after the Middle Ages. There are few exceptions to this rule.
I looked the word castle up in the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language and the entry goes like this:
1. A fort or fortified group of buildings usually dominating the surrounding country and held by a vassal of a ruler in feudal societies, especially in medieval Europe.
2. A former stronghold of this kind converted to residential use; mansion.
3. The citadel of a fortified medieval town.
4. Any building similar to or resembling a castle.
5. Any place of privacy, security, or refuge.
According to #2 and #4 you are right, of course. But nevertheless I think the OP is interested in castles as defined in #1 and not in palaces. In Germany and in Europe it's much easier to find palaces than castles. The simple reason is that palaces are considerably younger than castles. After the invention of guns many castles were deserted or rebuilt as fortresses.
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Old Jan 25th, 2021, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by neckervd View Post
Everything is specified in the linksk sent be lavandula:
The Rheinland-Pfalz Ticket Lux is valid 1 day and costs 24 EUR for 1 adult and 29 EUR for 2 adults; kids up to 14 years are free. It's valid in slow trains only.
The ticket its valid in the Land Rheinland-Pfalz and beyond it up to Bonn, Luxemburg (whole country), Wissenbourg and Lauterbourg (both in Alsace), Mannheim and Karlsruhe.
It's NOT valid between Mannhem and Heidelberg and may be not for trips to and from Frankfurt airport.
Thanks for clarifying. This is where the problem with translation comes in. I think I’ll get a better handle on it this afternoon. I think I’m also confusing the VRM and RMV tickets, both of which are good from Mainz outward?
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Old Jan 25th, 2021, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Swabian View Post
I'm German. In the German language there is a clear distinction between Burg (castle) and Schloss (palace). Burgen (plural of Burg) are fortified buildings mostly on hills and if there are no hills there often is a moat around them. Burgen were built in the Middle Ages before the invention of fire weapons. Schlösser (plural of Schloss) were built after the Middle Ages. There are few exceptions to this rule.
I looked the word castle up in the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language and the entry goes like this:
1. A fort or fortified group of buildings usually dominating the surrounding country and held by a vassal of a ruler in feudal societies, especially in medieval Europe.
2. A former stronghold of this kind converted to residential use; mansion.
3. The citadel of a fortified medieval town.
4. Any building similar to or resembling a castle.
5. Any place of privacy, security, or refuge.
According to #2 and #4 you are right, of course. But nevertheless I think the OP is interested in castles as defined in #1 and not in palaces. In Germany and in Europe it's much easier to find palaces than castles. The simple reason is that palaces are considerably younger than castles. After the invention of guns many castles were deserted or rebuilt as fortresses.
Let it be known I won’t shy away from a beautiful Schloss, and would welcome suggestions!
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Old Jan 25th, 2021, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by SamRothstein View Post
This is great. Let me see if I understand correctly. The RMV ticket would cover my travels from Frankfurt Airport-Mainz, Mainz-Bingen, Braubach-St Goarhausen, St Goar-Mainz, Mainz- Speyer, Speyer-Heidelberg and Heidelberg-Mainz ?

I think I’m confused. On mobile currently, will try to give it another look when I can get on desktop with better translation.

edited to add airport
Not the RMV (this is Hessen, Rhein-Main Verkehr) but the VRM (Verkehrsverbund Rhein-Mosel), which is the public transport company covering Rheinland-Pfalz and extends into the right bank of the Rhine for some cities close to the border.
It covers not quite all but some of these towns/cities, yes. Frankfurt Airport is in Hessen, so no (their company is the RMV), but this is just a cheap ticket, 5 euro for a single ticket (train S8 is from the Frankfurt Flughafen Regionalbahnhof, the local trains at the airport).
Mainz - Bingen, yes.
Braubach - St Goarshausen yes (and then the ferry from St Goarshausen - St Goar is also covered - Rheinfähre Loreley)
St Goar - Mainz yes
Mainz - Speyer yes (Worms is also covered too)
Speyer - Heidelberg - no
Heidelberg - Mainz - no, Heidelberg is in Baden-Württemberg
And then also with the Rheinland Pfalz + Lux ticket you could also cover Luxembourg-Trier and Luxembourg- Cochem.
You can also get across to Wiesbaden and use the public transport there with the R-P ticket. So you are quite well covered, except that day trip to Heidelberg.

Lavandula
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Old Jan 26th, 2021, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by lavandula View Post
Not the RMV (this is Hessen, Rhein-Main Verkehr) but the VRM (Verkehrsverbund Rhein-Mosel), which is the public transport company covering Rheinland-Pfalz and extends into the right bank of the Rhine for some cities close to the border.
It covers not quite all but some of these towns/cities, yes. Frankfurt Airport is in Hessen, so no (their company is the RMV), but this is just a cheap ticket, 5 euro for a single ticket (train S8 is from the Frankfurt Flughafen Regionalbahnhof, the local trains at the airport).
Mainz - Bingen, yes.
Braubach - St Goarshausen yes (and then the ferry from St Goarshausen - St Goar is also covered - Rheinfähre Loreley)
St Goar - Mainz yes
Mainz - Speyer yes (Worms is also covered too)
Speyer - Heidelberg - no
Heidelberg - Mainz - no, Heidelberg is in Baden-Württemberg
And then also with the Rheinland Pfalz + Lux ticket you could also cover Luxembourg-Trier and Luxembourg- Cochem.
You can also get across to Wiesbaden and use the public transport there with the R-P ticket. So you are quite well covered, except that day trip to Heidelberg.

Lavandula
awesome thanks.

So here’s what I’ve figured for train fares, using bahn.de, 1st class, super sparpreis when available, for two tickets
FRA-Mainz €10
Mainz-Bingen|Boppard-St Goar-Mainz €30 Rheinland Pfalz card
Mainz-Speyer-Heidelberg-Mainz €70,€46, €60
Mainz-Tübingen €90
Tübingen-Strasbourg €85
Strasbourg - Colmar - Strasbourg €20
Strasbourg - Luxembourg €42
Luxembourg - Trier - Luxembourg | Luxembourg - Cochem -Luxembourg €30 Rheinland Pfalz + Lux

It looks like for flexibility, the 3 day German Rail Twin Pass at $351(USD), and then point to point tickets from Tübingen on will be the best value. The Rheinland Pfalz + Lux ticket will save good money for that leg as well.
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Old Jan 26th, 2021, 01:36 PM
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Great that you have worked that all out, sounds like you have quite a trip ahead of you! Enjoy!

Lavandula
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Old Jan 26th, 2021, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by lavandula View Post
Great that you have worked that all out, sounds like you have quite a trip ahead of you! Enjoy!

Lavandula
Thank you so much for your assistance. I’m sure I’ll be back with more questions as the date draws nearer.
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Old Jan 26th, 2021, 10:27 PM
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Actually I just noticed - your day to Heidelberg could be achieved by a R-P ticket (29 EUR) + tickets to and from Mannheim Hauptbahnhof (I think you are allowed to access this station) and then an extension to Heidelberg. You are restricted to local trains when in R-P on the ticket, which may or may not be acceptable to you, that should bring the costs down even further. Because the trip to Mannheim - Heidelberg is local it costs only EUR 12.30 one-way, so your costs look like this:

R-P ticket EUR29.00 (Mainz - Speyer - Mannheim)
Mannheim - Heidelberg X 2 EUR 24.60 (first class)
Heidelberg - Mannheim X 2 EUR 24.60
TOT 78.20

Lavandula
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Old Jan 27th, 2021, 03:13 AM
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Originally Posted by lavandula View Post
Actually I just noticed - your day to Heidelberg could be achieved by a R-P ticket (29 EUR) + tickets to and from Mannheim Hauptbahnhof (I think you are allowed to access this station) and then an extension to Heidelberg. You are restricted to local trains when in R-P on the ticket, which may or may not be acceptable to you, that should bring the costs down even further. Because the trip to Mannheim - Heidelberg is local it costs only EUR 12.30 one-way, so your costs look like this:

R-P ticket EUR29.00 (Mainz - Speyer - Mannheim)
Mannheim - Heidelberg X 2 EUR 24.60 (first class)
Heidelberg - Mannheim X 2 EUR 24.60
TOT 78.20

Lavandula
Great savings, thanks again!

Interestingly, when I plug in Speyer-Heidelberg with local trains only, the option of the Rheinland-Pfalz-Ticket or Baden-Württemberg-Ticket is offered. It doesn’t indicate any supplemental tickets would be needed. The transport shown is an S-Bahn towards Karlsruhe. If I had unwittingly taken this option, could I be fined?
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Old Jan 27th, 2021, 01:16 PM
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Hi Sam,

I didn't see any offer of the R-P ticket or the B-W one. But I did see the train to Karlsruhe, that's just the end station. You wouldn't get into trouble riding it providing you have a ticket of some sort - not the R-P ticket because you can only use your R-P ticket as far as Mannheim. It's just a short local ride from Speyer to Heidelberg (about 40 mins). If you click on the details you see all the stops and that it takes you via Mannheim, which is on the border. I would probably just buy a point-to-point single ticket from Speyer to Heidelberg for simplicity's sake, so you don't have to get off in Mannheim. I have no idea if you can buy a ticket from Mannheim to Heidelberg when you are in Speyer, but I don't think you would burn too many euros by a ticket from Speyer. The return should be a ticket from Heidelberg to Mannheim and from there you would just use the R-P ticket on your journey home. The fare from Heidelberg to Mannheim is a bit more complex; the local company VRN divides the region into 'honeycombs' and when you go from Heidelberg to Mannheim you pass through 4 of these sections ('Waben'), so your price is price level 4, EUR6.10. I didn't see an English page here but the German is below. If you use Chrome then there is a translation tool integrated into it which might help:
https://www.vrn.de/tickets/ticketueb...dex.html#price
https://www.vrn.de/tickets/tarifsyst...x.html#sec_0_3
Possibly you could accomplish some of these tickets by booking with the ticket window but it will cost you a few euro extra, and might save you some grief!

Lavandula
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Old Jan 27th, 2021, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by lavandula View Post
Hi Sam,

I didn't see any offer of the R-P ticket or the B-W one. But I did see the train to Karlsruhe, that's just the end station. You wouldn't get into trouble riding it providing you have a ticket of some sort - not the R-P ticket because you can only use your R-P ticket as far as Mannheim. It's just a short local ride from Speyer to Heidelberg (about 40 mins). If you click on the details you see all the stops and that it takes you via Mannheim, which is on the border. I would probably just buy a point-to-point single ticket from Speyer to Heidelberg for simplicity's sake, so you don't have to get off in Mannheim. I have no idea if you can buy a ticket from Mannheim to Heidelberg when you are in Speyer, but I don't think you would burn too many euros by a ticket from Speyer. The return should be a ticket from Heidelberg to Mannheim and from there you would just use the R-P ticket on your journey home. The fare from Heidelberg to Mannheim is a bit more complex; the local company VRN divides the region into 'honeycombs' and when you go from Heidelberg to Mannheim you pass through 4 of these sections ('Waben'), so your price is price level 4, EUR6.10. I didn't see an English page here but the German is below. If you use Chrome then there is a translation tool integrated into it which might help:
https://www.vrn.de/tickets/ticketueb...dex.html#price
https://www.vrn.de/tickets/tarifsyst...x.html#sec_0_3
Possibly you could accomplish some of these tickets by booking with the ticket window but it will cost you a few euro extra, and might save you some grief!

Lavandula
Interesting we get different results for the same route, on the same S3


For myself, I’ll book the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket with a supplemented ticket from Mannheim to Heidelberg and back to Mannheim. All this help is really wonderful. Almost €1000 saved vs the Eurail pass!
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Old Jan 28th, 2021, 02:38 AM
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Hi Sam, I worked out why we see different things - I have been looking at the German website of bahn.de which is a bit more generous with the rules and details of the tickets. The English version gives the skimpy version and sometimes it's just not enough to work out if it's what you need. I guess they want you to have a simple solution, if somewhat more $$$. Glad if I could save you a few dollars. The station staff, when there are staffed stations, are usually also helpful (lots of tourists in Heidelberg and on the middle Rhine gorge, so English there is generally not too bad), so don't hesitate to ask them.

Lavandula
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Old Jan 28th, 2021, 02:46 AM
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SPEYER - HEIDELBERG
The S 3 runs from Speyer via Mannheinm - Arena - Heidelberg - Bruchsal to Karlsruhe.
According to DB, the Rheinland-Pfalz-Ticket is valid up to Mannhein Arena, plus
"* Das Rheinland-Pfalz-Ticket gilt ab dem Fahrplanwechsel zum 09.12.18 nur noch auf der Schiene im ein- und ausbrechenden Verkehr im rheinland-pfälzischen Teilgebiet des Verkehrsverbundes Rhein-Neckar (VRN). Die Weiterfahrt mit anderen Verbundverkehrsmitteln und Fahrten innerhalb des VRN sind damit nicht mehr möglich.
My mother tongue is German, but I don't understand what DB means with "ein- und ausbrechender Verkehr". Could that mean that the Rhein-Mosel-ticket is valid in a S-Bahn train running from the Rhein-Mosel area to Heidelberg?
If not, the OP would have to buy a Tageskarte for 7 EUR (10 EUR for 2 pAX).
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