How to Pronounce Caernarfon?
Jun 2nd, 2005, 02:03 PM
#2
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In English: K'naah vun. The "u" represents that indistinct vowel we English use almost all the time.
That's how English speakers in the area have long pronouned the town's name (which, BTW, in English is spelt Caernarvon.). Welsh speakers pronounce it differently and try to pretend English speakers should follow their pronunciation.
Oddly, they don't apply the same logic when they describe, in Welsh, the local commercial capital (which they insist on calling Lerpwl), or their national capital (which they insist on calling Lundain).
But if you're lost and you ask for K'naah vun, you'll get proper directions.
That's how English speakers in the area have long pronouned the town's name (which, BTW, in English is spelt Caernarvon.). Welsh speakers pronounce it differently and try to pretend English speakers should follow their pronunciation.
Oddly, they don't apply the same logic when they describe, in Welsh, the local commercial capital (which they insist on calling Lerpwl), or their national capital (which they insist on calling Lundain).
But if you're lost and you ask for K'naah vun, you'll get proper directions.
Jun 3rd, 2005, 10:32 AM
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Daft?? why is a national dialect daft?
Would you laugh at Italians for adding 'i' after many words, or laugh at Czech women who add 'ova' to the end of their surname?
In the Cardiff area alone we have LLandaff, LLanishen, LLantrisant,Llanedeyrn, Llantwit Major.... It goes on.
Its what we call Welsh.!
Sorry Flanner you have confused me, Isn't the National Capital Cardiff? (Only 2 F's)
;-)
Muck
Would you laugh at Italians for adding 'i' after many words, or laugh at Czech women who add 'ova' to the end of their surname?
In the Cardiff area alone we have LLandaff, LLanishen, LLantrisant,Llanedeyrn, Llantwit Major.... It goes on.
Its what we call Welsh.!
Sorry Flanner you have confused me, Isn't the National Capital Cardiff? (Only 2 F's)
;-)
Muck
Jun 3rd, 2005, 10:49 AM
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It's nota dialect, it's a language.
And there's an interesting question...I thought the same thing when I saw flanner describe London as the "national" capital of Wales. But is Wales a "nation"; or just a principality?
I know Scotland is a nation; if nota nation state. What about Wales, tho'?
And there's an interesting question...I thought the same thing when I saw flanner describe London as the "national" capital of Wales. But is Wales a "nation"; or just a principality?
I know Scotland is a nation; if nota nation state. What about Wales, tho'?
Jun 3rd, 2005, 10:56 AM
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I found a great site where you can play the Welsh words on a media player to actually hear the pronunciation.Llandudno is pronounced clan-dig-no.
The site is called The Sound of Wales.
http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/sounds/
The site is called The Sound of Wales.
http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/sounds/
Jun 3rd, 2005, 11:03 AM
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Mucky: You misunderstood my comment - that's daft, meaning to me that's weird in my context but i don't laugh at the beauty of languages and cultures and loved my several trips thru Wales and the down to earth Welsh people - very friendly place.
Jun 3rd, 2005, 11:27 PM
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Sheila,Of course Welsh is a language but there are several dialects within the Welsh Language, for example Welsh speakers in West Wales have a slightly different dialect to those in the North and East. Just the same I guess as the English variances between lets say Cornwall and Newcastle and I am sure Scotland and Ireland are the same.
Ok PalQ your forgiven...lol Please come and visit us again soon.
Muck
Ok PalQ your forgiven...lol Please come and visit us again soon.
Muck
Jun 4th, 2005, 12:58 AM
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Wales a Nation or Principality??
That is a very interesting question.
The term Principality of Wales, in Welsh, Tywysogaeth Cymru, is often used, although the Prince of Wales has no role in the governance of Wales and this term is unpopular among many in Wales. The nation has not been politically independent since 1282, when it was conquered by King Edward I of England. Until 1999, Wales was ruled directly from London; that year saw the first elections to the National Assembly for Wales, which has limited domestic powers and cannot make law. Wales does not issue its own currency and is not in control of any armed forces. These are the powers of the national government of the UK, based at Westminster. The capital of Wales since 1955 has been Cardiff, although Caernarfon is the location where the Prince of Wales is invested, and Machynlleth was the home of a parliament called by Owain Glyndwr during his revolt at the start of the fifteenth century.
So In my humble opinion, I would say that Wales certainly is a Nation,in the true sense of the word.
We have our own Government who are weak but getting stronger.
Having Charles as Prince of Wales is a very contentious issue here and the question of National identity will raise a heated discussion in many a welsh pub at anytime.
Interesting question--any other views?
Muck
That is a very interesting question.
The term Principality of Wales, in Welsh, Tywysogaeth Cymru, is often used, although the Prince of Wales has no role in the governance of Wales and this term is unpopular among many in Wales. The nation has not been politically independent since 1282, when it was conquered by King Edward I of England. Until 1999, Wales was ruled directly from London; that year saw the first elections to the National Assembly for Wales, which has limited domestic powers and cannot make law. Wales does not issue its own currency and is not in control of any armed forces. These are the powers of the national government of the UK, based at Westminster. The capital of Wales since 1955 has been Cardiff, although Caernarfon is the location where the Prince of Wales is invested, and Machynlleth was the home of a parliament called by Owain Glyndwr during his revolt at the start of the fifteenth century.
So In my humble opinion, I would say that Wales certainly is a Nation,in the true sense of the word.
We have our own Government who are weak but getting stronger.
Having Charles as Prince of Wales is a very contentious issue here and the question of National identity will raise a heated discussion in many a welsh pub at anytime.
Interesting question--any other views?
Muck
Jun 4th, 2005, 04:48 AM
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Thanks for the lesson, Muck.
One of the things that I find intriguing about Europe is that even after 700 years, the Welsh have not been assimilated - nor the Scots, the Basques, the Catalans, the Croats, the Rom, .....
One of the things that I find intriguing about Europe is that even after 700 years, the Welsh have not been assimilated - nor the Scots, the Basques, the Catalans, the Croats, the Rom, .....
Jun 4th, 2005, 12:56 PM
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Ooooooh...Muck - I was at the celebration of the Six Nations win, where the Prince of Wales and the Mrs. presented the cup, and he was booed by about a third of the crowd. So I guess he's not too popular.
Jun 4th, 2005, 01:25 PM
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Jeez - Mucky
You've not only got Chilla Chuck, but now you've got Camilla as well. Some people are never happy!
We've apparently still got that old granny (ya know - the one who gave that William Web Ellis trophy to John Eales) as our head of state. Sheeesh!
Roll on the Republic!
You've not only got Chilla Chuck, but now you've got Camilla as well. Some people are never happy!
We've apparently still got that old granny (ya know - the one who gave that William Web Ellis trophy to John Eales) as our head of state. Sheeesh!
Roll on the Republic!
Dec 29th, 2006, 07:30 AM
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Llandudno is not pronounced "Clandudno". "Ll" is a separate letter in the Welsh alphabet and is pronounced by shaping your mouth exactly as for the letter "L" and breathing out at the same time. Practice with Llanelli and Llangollen.
Dec 29th, 2006, 07:33 AM
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"One of the things that I find intriguing about Europe is that even after 700 years"
What happened around the year 1300 that you found a major milestone of European assimilation? I believe the Eurpean Union is much younger than that.
What happened around the year 1300 that you found a major milestone of European assimilation? I believe the Eurpean Union is much younger than that.
