How SOON till I can go back to Europe
 

I want to go back to Europe sometime in late September but I will be starting a new job in May. What is the professional standard as far as vacations go? I'm thinking of going for about a week.

I know this is a stretch as a travel question but just wanted to get some feedback. I also remember a previous post similar to this asking how people can afford to travel. I guess this is a sort of extension to that question: How do you find time to travel without raising eyebrows (or pink slips!) at work?

Thanks!

I tell my new employer immediately upon hiring that I have made plans for a very special family vacation, and bought tickets a long time ago. So far it has been fine. I think employers appreciate honesty, you are giving him/her lots of advance notice. You will probably have to take a vacation with no pay. Good luck!

I'd have to say that depends on the policy at your workplace. Will you even have enough vacation days accrued to take a week away? I once went on vacation only 2 months after starting a new job, but I had previously mentioned it during the interview process.

You might check with other people where you will be working. Different companies have different feelings about vacations. If the company is supportive of the idea of travel as renewal, you will be able to discuss it freely.

Talk to other people in your profession at different companies to get a feel for the attitude. There are places that think you should keep your nose to the grindstone and asking about vacations shows a poor work ethic. Other places feel that when their workers take time off and relax that they come back rejuvinated and can contribute more to the job. Hopefully, you will be working for one of the latter.

I always negotiate time off as part of starting a new job. Either asking to start a couple of weeks later than requested, or telling the new employer that I am already planning/have planned a trip for a few months after my starting date.

The time off is therefore not paid, but I've never experienced any problem with taking it. I am guessing it is too late for that in your case.

For a job that starts in May and wishing to take a week's time off in September, I might tell the employer that I had a long-distance/overseas wedding to attend, rather than asking for vacation time. I have worked at several places where you were expected to take no time off for 6 months to a year after starting, which is unreasonable, IMO.

I don't your new boss would look favorably on you if one of your first questions/requests is about taking a week's vacation four months after you've started working there.

I think the idea that it completely depends on your job is correct. Employers vary drastically in terms of what they like or don't like in this regard, so who can say. If you have accrued a weeks' off by then, it would be pretty normal to take it, seems to me, unless you are in some job where that is a particularly busy time.

If you haven't many employers I know (including mine) allow you to go "in the hole" so to speak on vacation time -- you withdraw it in advance of earning it. If by some chance you quit before accruing it, it would be taken out of your last paycheck(s).

I don't think a week is that long and don't think most employers would have a major problem with this if you ask in advance, and don't expect to get pay you don't earn. I don't think taking a week after four months should raise eyebrows at all.

Craisin:

If travel is a passion for you, then you should make part of your compensation negotiations. I always have, asked for far more than the standard, and reluctantly compromised somewhere between. Don?t be ashamed of it, declare it.

Personally, I don't think a week in September, if you are starting in May, is a problem at all, unless your company has a lot of activity in September. If they do, respect this, and offer to take your week in October/November instead. I suggest you start the negotiations sooner rather than later. The more senior and valued you are in the organization, the more likely you are to get what you want. September IS a busy month for most companies, as it is an important period to gear up, after the vacation time.

I DO understand your concern. There are two issues. The first is getting a week off for vacation; the second is using it to go to Europe. I am not sure if others have experienced this, but I have generally found that employers and colleagues consider a trip to Europe as a shocking, decadent liberty. In other words: If ask for a week off to bring the kiddies to Disneyland, no-one would bat an eyelid!; asking for a week to go to Rome is an imposition. I don't understand it, but I have learnt NOT to share details on my vacation plans with anyone.

I suggest you discuss the issue with your management and ask for a week off, preferably in September, but willingly to be flexible (as you should, both for their sakes and the fact that you will probably get better airfares, hotel rates etc later in the year). If I were you, I would be vague about the actual details, re destination, until after you have permission to take the week. Frankly, its none of their damn business where you go!

It really does depend on how busy September is for your new work group. I wouldn't expect to take off too much time the first six months in to a new job, but maybe there are folks with kids who would like to take off the week between Christmas and New Year, and you could "volunteer" to be one of the people to staff the office during that time in return for taking a week earlier in the fall?

I just began a new job three weeks ago and on May 7 I am leaving for italy for 3 weeks. I was very upfront about it and told them back in January when the job first came up as a possibility. My boss said that BECAUSE I told her in advance they would find a way to make it work, that she appreciated my honesty. I was very worried because I will only have been here 6 weeks and then I am taking off for 3 (unpaid, of course). So I would suggest just being frank with them - say it is something that you have planned for awhile and that you are very excited about the job but would like to be able to take this trip as it is important to you as well. Hope that helps!

Type of business matters a LOT. For instance, if your new company has a fiscal year ending in September, it might be a busy time. It would be a good question to ask. I concur with those in favor of stating your plans from the outset - and being firm about them. Just don't make up an elaborate "wedding" or "family reunion" that you might be asked about later!

We were leaving on April,1. So, we were suppose to have March,31 off.
April,1 was the day my husband's vacation time was suppose to kick in. So, he was asked if he wants to have paid vacation or time left for another vacation. He choosed paid, so now we will wait untill 2005.
Hopefully your bosses understand.

Personally I would not ask for vacation time being so new on the job, but I would ask what the policy is. In my company there is a rule that new employees may not take vacation time if they have less than 6 months seniority. After that, we may use our time whenever we want, for as long as we want, just as long as we have earned that time. However, at my previous job it was a full year before getting any vacation time, you had to use all of your 2 weeks at once, and you had to put in your request for the year by February, and once your vacation time was booked, it could not be changed. That policy stunk!! Since then I have learned to ask these questions before accepting an offer. It might be too late in your case, but I see no harm in asking about your new company's policy. Good luck, I can certainly sympathize with wanting to go back to Europe ASAP!!

Honestly... reading the anguished deliberations you Americans go through over taking time away from work for holidays it's a wonder you don't all lay down your tools and strike for the right for a fairer, more equitable deal.

It seems that employers have a particularly parsimonious approach to holiday entitlement. I'm not sure there's a legal minmum in the UK or Europe but if an employer tried to get anyone to sign a contract without at least 4 weeks paid leave per annum (for a full time 35/40hour week, pro rata'd naturally for p/t staff)we'd just tell them to get stuffed!

Craisin - I hope you solve this dilemma, and if you ever get into a position in the company where you can effect a more tolerable regime then I hope you will do so!

POWER TO THE WORKERS!!!!

Dr D. :)

First of all, THANK YOU all for the helpful responses. I will try to get a feel for the work environment before asking about this. When I interviewed for the position, the staff seemed to be very casual and friendly--so, hopefully, that's a good sign. So far, I've been pretty lucky with previous employers.

I believe in being up front and honest as well but unfortunately, probably due to my limited experience, I was too hesitant to ask about the vacation policy during the interview.

OReilly, you read my mind! I definitely have the travel bug--particularly the European kind! I'm just so restless and itching to go. And about this:
"I am not sure if others have experienced this, but I have generally found that employers and colleagues consider a trip to Europe as a shocking, decadent liberty. In other words: If ask for a week off to bring the kiddies to Disneyland, no-one would bat an eyelid!; asking for a week to go to Rome is an imposition." This is soooo true!

Also, I don't mind not getting paid for my vacation at all. While that would be nice, it's not really a big deal. And yes, of course, I am willing to push back a vacation till later if need be.

I like this position and would like to grow within the company, which is why I was concerned. Well, we'll see what happens...THANKS again!

p.s. Dr. Do Good: I do feel a tinge of jealousy hearing about the guaranted month off for European workers, BUT I'm not quite ready to be the new millenium's Norma Rae!!! But then again, who knows??? :)

Craisin,
Since you simply "want" to go back in September, and have nothing booked (it seems), why not just wait until the following spring? I for one would not look kindly upon a new employee requesting vacation. If it had been a trip planned before you took the job, it should have been discussed during the interview process. Otherwise, wait.

Craisin, I can so relate to friends and colleagues who think that a trip to Europe is a lavish vacation for the wealthy. I am so fed up with wise cracks from people here at work, saying stuff like, "Ooohh, must be nice to be able to afford to go to Europe every year." I have told them repeatedly that depending on the season, a trip to Europe can be much cheaper than a domestic trip, even allowing for a difference in airfare. In fact, the most expensive trip I ever took on a day per day basis was to New York. Not that I'm complaining, NY was worth every penny, but some people just don't believe that Europe can be economical, and they don't understand the desire to see the world.

Leona, thanks for the input. Yes, I don't have anything booked YET. But, I don't think I can wait till next spring--maybe another trip next spring?! :) But, of course, work is my first priority right now--so I'll wait if I have to.

P_M, those are the exact words that I hear from friends and family. My first trip to Europe just jumpstarted me to explore MORE. Aside from that, I want to visit the Italian family that I stayed with and some friends I met along the way.

First of all, some folks get more vacation time in their jobs than others; mine is five weeks per year.
I agree with telling the new employer about your plans up front but I would not LIE about it, either.
The so-called "professional standard" and I'm not usre there is one in the US for vacation days is woefully behind those in Europe where a month off seems to be more the norm than here.
Would you consider taking leave without pay? No, I don;t think you would HAVE to and I think that "suggestion" made by a previous poster was ill-thought at best since they have absolutely no idea of what your overall situation is really like.

I completely agree with the point made -- that a Europe trip raises eyebrows much more than a Disney vacation with the kids. It definitely affects the people around you -- it does where I work. Most people think they cannot afford a trip to Europe while I can. That is not completely true -- I can afford it because travel is higher in my priorities. I do not drive expensive cars that others at work drive. The difference in my car payment and theirs over a year would be enough for a good Europe trip!!! It's best to not discuss travel plans/destinations at work although that's difficult to do.

If I were you, I would tell the employer that you have a trip planned for a long time and that you would be willing to take unpaid leave.

I do believe that folks in Europe have it much better than those of us in the United States in terms of vacation time.

Just my thoughts :)

Hey, Craisin, have you started your new job yet? If so, I hope it's going well. So, what's the company policy on vacation time? I would certainly hate to see a Fodorite being forced to wait a year before returning to Europe. I know I couldn't take the withdrawls.... :-)

P_M:

The new job's going well. There IS a 6-month probationary period, though, at which time they reevaluate my salary. So, I must suffer for 6 months!!! Sounds like I'm over-reacting? Well, let's see...I don't know if the pictures I have on my screensaver from webshots keeps me sane or insane...but it's my quick fix! Pathetic, huh?

Good news is, I am now on the lookout for flights in December for a possible New Year's celebration somewhere in Italy or France. So, I get to go this year and next year all in one trip!!! But, I still want to see Paris in the springtime too...how does the song go again? Darn it, now the song's stuck in my head! :)

"I tell my new employer immediately upon hiring that I have made plans for a very special family vacation, and bought tickets a long time ago. So far it has been fine. I think employers appreciate honesty,..."

I agree, so why aren't you (honest)?

Craisin:

I am so glad that your new job is a good one.

I lurked back when you posted but will now say what my experience was with your situation.

I landed a GREAT job and signed all of the documents etc. I then called my new boss and said how happy I was and blah-blah. I told him that I did have some travel plans for Sept. of that year that I had hoped to change but was having a more difficult time with making those changes...

He said that he was sure that we could work something out and then I was happy and said great.

We were still "honeymooning" so he asked well what is the trip? I said well I have tickets to the Olympics in Australia...

He chocked and I got scared cause he was really "taken-aback". He recovered with his "honeymoon-over" personality and asked how long etc.

I was suppose to be gone for a month and I told him that(stupid me). He then asked if I had completed the signing of the contract offer...I had done so hours ago(smart me).

We then stared at one another for what seemed like eternity...I offered to cut the trip to three weeks which cut out my Great Barrier Reef part and allll my money spent on that(ouch!).

He was stilled pissed and hence, that is how my GREAT job began. My proposed absence became a BIG issue around projects, budgets and deadlines and the "team". I was asked my boss and his bosses to try and cut the trip back...my team members were simply jealous and made life awful for me.

I also had NO idea that my boss and the team worked EVERY DAY until 10:00pm and sometimes 1:00am to get things done!

I was a wreck. He insisted that I carry my laptop, company cell phone and that I check in everyday as well as produce a series of reports.

A week before I left I told him no...When I got back NO ONE would speak to me or look at me...I got cut out or everything and so it went.

By end of January I resigned...

I regret that I did not see the Great Barrier Reef...The Olympics, my third one, was awesome. I had tickets to EVERYTHING as me and my friend ordered everything one night...just so that we would get at least one event... after drinking three bottles of wine. I had gone to the Olympics before when held in LA and when held in Atlanta.

Yes, I only regret not going to The Great Barrier Reef...

Continued good luck to you on your job.
You did the right thing.

Oaktown Traveler

What interesting little snippets have surfaced in this thread! Some people have so many jobs that they get regular holidays by telling employers at job interview that they've prebooked and are committed? Wow! There are people in some parts of the (I presume Western) world who do NOT get a minimum paid leave entitlement of 4 weeks a year? Again, wow! However most employers do - reasonably I believe - require that you accrue the leave before you take it.
I know what you mean by snide remarks from people who think you must be rich to travel. Lifetravel is right: it's a matter of priorities. Some people spend a fortune on gizmos and renovations to pretty up their houses; some people drive the latest cars. I travel. AND... I do it on a budget, preferring B&Bs to hotels etc. (Much friendlier)

Craisin, is there any way you can make part of your trip work related (but in a fun way)? Maybe put in a day at a job-related international conference going on at the same time? Visit an overseas customer? Check out what the competition is doing overseas?
Everyone here is right, a trip to Europe (or Australia, etc.) somehow draws a more emotional reaction than going to California or Florida for a week. Even if you're spend the same (or less) money.
When I started work with the American College of Physicians (many years ago), I had a 15-day trip to Europe already lined up, scheduled for about two months after I started work. I was up front about it during the interview process. It was an unpaid trip, but I managed to get over the raised eyebrows by visiting the Royal College of Physicians in London for a day and doing a story about the society, its history, etc., for one of the ACP's publications. It turned out to be one of the most interesting days of my trip, meeting with the head of the society and getting a VIP tour, including going into their treasure vault to see the original charter signed by Henry VIII and other things I would never have seen otherwise. Building a work-related day or two into your trip might be more fun than you'd think and help break down any resistance.

Craisin, I meant to add, you MUST volunteer to do anything work related at your expense and on your time. It will backfire in a big way if you ask for *any* kind of reimbursement or extra days. Instead of being seen and someone who is willing to give up a part of their vacation for the company's benefit, you'll be viewed as a greedy freeloader who wants the company to underwrite their trips abroad.

Well Craisin, it'll be a long 6 months, but you'll get through it. :-) My current job had the same requirement, but in month 7 I was winging it to Ireland!! And look at the bright side, some companies (like my former employer) require that you wait a year. Now that's cruel and unusual punishment!!

I had a vacation planned when I started my current job. I let them know very early on in the process.

As a person who has hired a lot of staff I can understand why Oaktown Traveler's boss was a little miffed. It is one thing to ask for a vacation, but a month is pushing it. Also, this really should come up prior to the "signing of the contract" otherwise it does feel deceitful to the employer.

I have hired a lot of new college graduates who have weddings/honeymoons planned for example. As long as I knew about it, it was never a problem.

If you are in this position, I recommend being up front EARLY.

depends on the boss. I've had jobs where my boss didn't mind if I took off every few months, others where it was pulling teeth to get more than a week at a time off.

my current job I started I had started in June and took 2 weeks in September - no sweat. then again I was sure to bring it up before I accepted, and additionally asked for more vacation time as well - despite policy, if they want you, they'll work with you.

As a professional in the human resources field, I would definitely mention your vacation plans in the interview process. Make sure your comments reflect that the vacation has been pre-paid (Even though you may be in the pre-planning phase). When to mention it depends on the amount of interest shown by either party.

If the company wants you bad enough they will work around your vacation plans.

Gail

I agree with most of what has been said. Just to give you an idea of my own experiences: I accepted a new position about a year-and-a-half ago. Before accepting the position, I asked my new boss if I could start in three weeks instead of the following week, as they had asked, because I wanted to go on vacation (I didn't have tickets yet). My boss said she needed me to start in a week, and since the job market wasn't great, I took the job. But I did end up going on vacation three months later. Since my boss knew I had taken the job instead of going away, and she was happy to have me on board, she was fine with me taking a week off even during a busy time.

As far as finding time, I like to plan my vacations around holidays. Last year I planned four short vacations (each was between 3 days and one week) all scheduled around weekends and holidays (Presidents? Day, Fourth of July, etc.) to minimize the days I had to take off. Sometimes, even on a holiday weekend, it?s possible to find a not-too-crowded vacation spot.

Just an update. I read a post recently where a poster noted that updates are appreciated since most of the time people post their questions, get answers, and never post back with an update. So, I remembered this post and felt a little guilty. I was a little hesitant reporting back because I didn't know if people 'cared' (can't think of the appropriate word) but really, someone might find this useful when they're faced with the same dilemma so here goes...

I'm going to Paris late September...I'm so happy! It turns out, honesty is the best policy. I spoke with my supervisor sometime in June after getting a feel for the place. I told her that I am planning to take a week off (really just 5 days M-F) and that I understand that there is a 6-month probationary period and I haven't bought tickets yet, so if it is not okay, then I can postpone my plans for later. Luckily, she said yes.

Oh yeah, I didn't tell her where I was going but she asked so I answered. no funny looks, no raised eyebrows, she just said, "oh, okay." So I guess I'm lucky to have this job (not just because they let me go but because the people have been wonderful and the job shows opportunity for growth).

That's great news!! I'm so happy you will be spared the withdrawl symptoms of being confined and not able to travel. I know I couldn't take it. :-)

HipHip! So soon too!!! Excited??

And thanks!