As an aside to an interesting thread, I would ask this: what is more important- people as cogs in an economic machine or an economy which acts as a provider to the individual and family? I am far from some sort of socialist or utopian but I wonder whether we all become guilty of not understanding what we are working for. It shouldn't be just to build a pile of money. Cary Grant asks that in the wonderful movie HOLIDAY way back in 1938 and it is still a vital question.

Like some of you, if I'm not working I'm not earning. Vacation time is somewhat discretionary BUT we all like to get paid! Also, if I am absent too often or for too long it could be an indication to someone (my employer or my customers) that I'm dispensible.

UK, 28 days plus 9 Statutory Holidays plus a 9 day fortnight - but I've only been their 3 months so I only get the basic

American, corp. world, 5 weeks.

I feel guilty (and thrilled!) for admitting this, but as a teacher, I get A LOT of vacation time. The whole summer, a week each in Dec., Feb., and April, plus lots of 3 day weekends.

beachgirl: No reason to feel guilty. I don't know if vacation time was a motivating factor to enter the teaching profession, but it definitely impacts the salaries paid to teachers. For someone who puts a high priority on vacation time, it is a great career choice--the only problem being paying for a trip on a teacher's salary.

wasn't it Rick Steves who said he used to travel on a piano teacher's salary... and boy was she mad!

"I would ask this: what is more important- people as cogs in an economic machine or an economy which acts as a provider to the individual and family?" Good point.

I don't think that the gov't should mandate vacation - I do however think it should be higher on everyone's priority. I honestly don't hear that many Americans complaining about their vacation time - they just take it as a given that they get almost nil.

I envy you teachers!! I have thought of pursuing this profession at the college level after I finish my masters - very nice lifestyle, nice pay, perhaps a few sabbatcials - doesn't sound so bad!

"I do however think it should be higher on everyone's priority."

If it was higher on your (or anyone's) priority list, you could look for a job with a lower salary but more vacation time. If you want four weeks, only accept a job that allows four weeks. I understand that the US abolished slavery in the mid-19th Century, so you are surely free to switch jobs if you are unhappy with your number of vacation days.

thit - lower salary & more vacation time does not necessarily equal more vacations (hence less $$$). I am in my current position to gain experience and further my career so I will be able to be more picky in the future - as a somewhat recent grad I am not able to afford this luxury at this point.

In the good ole USA, I get 4 weeks of paid vacation (after 20 years of service) and 9 days of personal time to be used any way I want. I also get 2 additional floater days to be combined with a holiday to make a 4 day weekend but they actually let us use it anytime we want. So total is 31 days. We also get 8 holidays off. I can't complain.:)

I used to work in industry (46 hours basic per week + whatever overtime that was expected by the company) with 12 days vacation that had to be taken when the company said (annual shutdown).

I now work for the government - 37 hour weeks and 30 days a year. I was certainly money richer in the former, but the quality of life is infinitly better in the latter. There is no point being relatively wealthy if you are working too hard to enjoy it.

I always work in the corporate world (which most people do in the US), and I don't get as much vacation as I think I should in comparison to peers in my industry for my tenure. I get 17 days. Of course, holidays are extra (about 10, I think), and sick leave is a different benefit unrelated to that. I think I get about 10-12 sick days a year, but I'm hardly ever sick so don't recall. They accumulate, as does my vacation.

Angela, I don't know what kind of corporation you work for, but I have worked for several in my life and have never heard of one with as cheap a vacation policy as you have. I have just never known anyone or worked for any place that gives a total of two weeks for both vacation and sick leave. For vacation for a new employee, that is pretty normal, but to include sick leave in that? This is just not the norm in the US, so I wonder what kind of company you work for, or if you aren't a regular employee or something like that.

Christina - I am a full time exempt employee (meaning I don't get paid for overtime). I get 5 "personal days" per year, and get 5 days of vacation on my 1 year anniversary (i've only been here 6 months..). I have even heard of several companies that will not give you any vacation or any sick time until you have been there for an entire year...

As a Canadian, I get one month's paid vacation (tied to years of service), 8 public holidays + unpaid Easter Monday, 18 paid sick or personal days per annum. I am also free to take any sick time on an hourly basis. Sweet deal!

Wow, I can't believe some of you have to include sick days in your vacation time. I think that's appalling and demonstrates a clear lack of attention to the need for personal wellness and a work/life balance on the part of the employers. I live in Canada and work in government and I get 3 weeks (15 days) vacation per year, 10 sick days and a few other random days for things like moving, family illness etc. Medical appointments you just go, they are not taken off your sick days or anything else. When my husband was in a serious accident last year I was given 3 weeks paid leave. This kind of generosity (and apparently every five years you get another 5 vacation days added) does make me want to work harder because it tells me my employer does care about my wellness and understands that personal happiness and professional productivity are often linked. This is something that many other companies are slow to understand, I think.

This thread made me think about how many paid days off I do get- surprised to find that it is a little over 35 days a year. I have worked for an American health insurance company for 10 years. We get 10 holidays (including Christmas Eve and the day after Thanksgiving), one discretionary day to use as we please and Personal Time Off for vacation and sick leave which is dependent upon length of service. Personally, I get 7.25 hours per payperiod (which they unexpectedly bumped from 6.5 for folks with my tenure). Nice, huh? :)

They also give us 3 days bereavement but my boss gave me a 1/2 day more 2 weeks ago when I lost my mom.

I have a new appreciation for my workplace now. Maybe I just had forgotten how good I had it.

I don't want to be a spoilsport, but the concept of sick leave is foreign to me. I'm 46 and have never taken a sick day. When you're part of a small business, taking vacation can be difficult. That said, when my son recently had open-heart surgery I took off two days.

I found my very first job in USA in 1990 in a small place with maybe 30 employees. The owner, and emigrant himself, gave only what's required by law. No benefits at all. NONE. 2 paid vacation days a year after one full year of work.

Think about all minimum-wage people and count your blessings, everybody who complains!

We receive 23 vacation days, 4 personal days, 12 sick days and 8 paid holidays. I can roll over the vacation up to 6 weeks, personal days up to 72 hours, and here is the big one sick days to 1296 hours. Upon retirement we are paid up to half of 800 hours. For many they walk with a few European vacations paid.

Per year:
20 vacation days
13 sick days
am allowed to rollover 30 vacation days per year, which I constantly do because I'm constantly working comp time.
the comp time i earn annually gives me upwards of 40 extra vaction days (equivalent to 8 work weeks) per year, which allows me to rollover my 30 vacation days, since I can't clearly take more time off without affecting my work.

I'm probably one of the hardest working US government workers around, especially at my paltry pay level. And they lose a part of me every day they abuse me.

I should go home now.

40 days a year (on a PTO system), but that also includes 8 holidays and any/all sick time. I'm rarely sick so it works out to around 4 weeks a year vacation time.

I live in the U.S. I get just two weeks vacation, 10 sick days, and 3 "personal days". I can roll over the vacation days and use them until March of the following calendar year. When I was hired, I offered to take a lower salary in exchange for another week's vacation, but I was told that company policy was that only managers got 3 weeks. Guess I have to work my way up to manager now!

The head of my department didn't want to let me take my entire two weeks at once for the trip I'm planning right now. One of my bosses had to convince her to let me do it! I have been at my company for a year and a half, and I've never seen anyone take more than a week at once unless they were freelance.

I take the point that the performance of European economies isn't great, but I doubt that the problem is so simple that a dose of American conditions would magically transform the situation. Australia for example has traditionally had employment conditions closer to Europe's than America's, and we've had 13 straight years of strong growth in GDP and productivity with balanced budgets, with low unemployment.

However, we're working long unpaid hours by comparison with most other OECD countries and in many cases not taking all our leave entitlements. Also, many of the new jobs are in non-unionised, insecure part-time/casual work with a small pay supplement in lieu of leave entitlements. The drift would seem to be towards a US-style environment. All surveys strongly indicate that this is NOT what people want, but it's happening anyway. You'd have to pretty dim not to work out who's calling the shots. Now we're told that to remain "competitive" (with whom - garment workers in Chongqing on $5 a day?) we have to hand even more bargaining power to our employers.

I could accept that US workers have made a valid choice to work longer in return for more money, and that workers in my country were in the process of going down the same sad road, were it not for two things. First, it's utter fantasy to imagine that most workers have the bargaining power to make such a choice - for most the only real choice is to take what you're offered or be on the dole. Second, little of the benefit is flowing in the employee's direction, as company profits have been rising much faster than pay packets.

If governments don't get involved in ameliorating this dysfuctional spiral, who will?

Self-emplopyed is the only way to go! I think 8 weeks/year should be standard.

The EU zones sclerotic economies are not solely due to the state-mandated vacation policies, but it is one component of the bureaucratic welfare state that adds to it. What is lacking is the flexibility (for both employers AND employees) found in less regulated systems such as the US.
And the fact that not every worker may have the bargaining power to negotiate generous packages does not invalidate the many, many workers in diverse industries that DO have that power.
It is quite commonplace for job-seekers and career-changers in the US to negotiate certain benefits against others to arrive at a favorable state.
For example, we get our health coverage through our employers (by and large) and with both the husband and wife working, one or the other will not need their company health plan; the spouse's plan is perfectly good and there is no need to double cover. So, you give that up in exchange for more vacation and/or higher wages from the start.
The fact that everybody is not able to do this does not mean anybody should be denied it. Flexibility.
As to Australia's policies, well, God love the Aussies, they have set up an enviable situation, but managing an econonomy with 20 million participants is an order of magnitude less complex than managing one with 300 million.
The EU zone is roughly 300 mill, and the lack of flexibility in employment law is one of the major drags on their economy.
It also kills the work ethic which is almost nonexistent on the continent.

I would agree that generous vacation policies are far from being the only reason that European economies lag the US, but government mandated vacation policies tend to go hand in hand with overregulated employment markets, which choke economies. It's perfectly fine for voters to make that choice, but they should be aware of the cost in doing so.

As to not having a choice in the American economy, I'd say that depends on how highly valued the worker is. Obviously, unskilled workers at the bottom of the pay scale have to take what they can get. But, as your skills increase, you generally have more bargaining power (e.g., new attorneys freshly out of law school are getting paid $140,000 or more at the mega law firms--I would imagine that these folks could find some opportunities for lower pay but more vacation if that was their priority, but it just goes against the competitive nature of most of these folks).

The ultimate option, which simply isn't practical in many European countries, but which is the very foundation of the American economy, is the opportunity to run your own small business and make these choices for yoursel, as I and millions of other Americans do. If you aren't happy with how your employer treats you in the US, many people have the opportunity to go out and start their own business and not have to answer to rigid corporate rules.

Talk about eye opening. I had no idea about the US 'situation'. 2 weeks (if that) - think I would go nuts!

As an Aussie I'm blessed with 20 paid days leave and 8 sick days. I also get that miraculous invention: flexi-time (and as David West noted above, the common response is "you get WHAT?"). Oh, and now bank time, which is a sub-set of flexi-time. Upshot is that once sufficient time is accrued, I can take up to 5-8 days off without affecting leave or sick time. Unpaid leave is also ok subject to office needs. I'm definitely in the time over $ camp.

Government - may not pay as much as private practice, but hey the benefits are great! :) The down side of course is how far away I am from Europe... so no short trips.

I get 25 days a year. My husband owns his own business and it all depends. He takes 2 weeks off each year no matter what.

Vacation is one of those things that employers tend not to provide unless forced, which is why so many countries mandation a certain minimum number of vacation days.

The notion of sick days is in itself a bit unwell, because it is a tacit admission that employers expect employees to lie (if you can plan your sick days, you aren't really sick). In healthier societies (figuratively and literally), you take days off if you are truly sick, and you don't take days off if you are well. Thus, the notion of a specific number of days allocated in advance for "being sick" makes no sense, as one cannot predict or control (real) illness.

Professors don't really have summers off ... they are meant to be doing thei research then.

When I worked in the States I got 10 vacation days a year (plus sick leave and bank holidays) and a major whine from my boss every time I tried to take a week off - you'd think the sky would fall down without me! Taking all ten days at the same time would have been out of the question.

But... then I moved overseas, to China, and oh how I missed my American vacation policy! Here in China, people get three weeks (21 days) off per year - but they are centered around national holidays, so EVERYONE takes the same week off AT THE SAME TIME. This drives ticket prices up, up, up! And makes tourist destinations in China ridiculously crowded.

To make matters worse, in order to take seven days off in a row, you are forced to work make-up days! For example, you must work the Saturday and Sunday before the designated holiday week, and then you may have the following seven days off.

My profligate American ways simply did not take well to this system. I am now very happily self-employed so I can take vacation whenever I want - with no make-up days! Of course, when I'm not working, I'm not getting paid, so there are downsides to everything.

"What is lacking is the flexibility (for both employers AND employees) found in less regulated systems such as the US.
And the fact that not every worker may have the bargaining power to negotiate generous packages does not invalidate the many, many workers in diverse industries that DO have that power.
It is quite commonplace for job-seekers and career-changers in the US to negotiate certain benefits against others to arrive at a favorable state.
For example, we get our health coverage through our employers (by and large) and with both the husband and wife working, one or the other will not need their company health plan; the spouse's plan is perfectly good and there is no need to double cover. So, you give that up in exchange for more vacation and/or higher wages from the start.
The fact that everybody is not able to do this does not mean anybody should be denied it. Flexibility."


What utter & total tosh, my employer in the UK (yes it is inEurope & the EU) offers all of those things - plus I can trade holiday for pay & vice versa AND I still get a basic allowance of 28 days, 9 day fortnight & public holidays - as well as sick pay, subsidised mortgage etc etc

Oh and I don't work "all hours that God sends"

In Ireland the standard is 20 days. I get 25 but 3 of those must be allocated for between Christmas and New Year when the office closes. We also get 10 days bank holiday.

I doubt that there are many teachers who still get three months off in the summer. We are off from the second week of June until the next to last day in July. We do get a week of "fall break" now and spring break so I am not complaining about the time, just the three month summer concept. Many schools are now what is called year round but the shorter breaks are built into the schedule and the 7 to 8 week summer is put in between the nine week grading periods. Some teachers don't get the summer off at all. My wife has a 12 month contract at a local tech school and only gets a week off between the spring and summer semesters. Besides the fact that we work in different states (living close to the GA/TN line) and never have the same break times except between Xmas and New Year, arranging vacations is never easy in spite of my summer. Have you seen the recent study about how many illnesses we Americans tend to get compared with the British? The only obvious answer to why is the stress levels we have put on us and put on ourselves every day and limited vacation fits right into that. I agree with Anthony, what difference does it make if we have a strong economy if we never get a chance to sit back and enjoy it now and then. I have known people who worked hard all of their lives, trying to get to retirement so they could relax and spend time with their families, travel, etc... and then developed cancer or some other deadly disease and never got there. Stop now and then and smell the roses, preferably in Paris, or Rome, or Amsterdam, or etc...

Baldworth

I'm self employed and so if I don't work I don't get paid.

I always take a minimum of 6 weeks off per year, I much prefer to be married to my wife rather than my work.

My experience of 'putting in' the hours after working for US Consultancies, is that I've found that the hours you bill, the miles you travel, and the nights you spend away from your family are not proportional to your salary or position. In fact, I found the opposite to be true.

What finally convinced me to work for myself was that the President of the company came to our office and did a 'You are our greatest asset speech' and then promptly 3 days later closed down the entire division so they could get a $110 million tax break.

I find it strange that so many people are willing to forgo personal benefits like vacations for the good of their employers and the economy. I hope the employers show the same sort of loyalty and unselfish behaviour when there is a downturn in the economy.

Geordie

Hello,
Another teacher here: summer off, 3 week winter break, 1 week spring break and all other major holidays off. I'm in the process of planning my trips to Europe now. I'm loving this.

In Spain we have 4 weeks off or 21-23 working days, and then there are several public holidays. We normally work around 1750 to 1780 hours per year (this is negotiated annually).

I work for a US company located in the Midwest US. I have worked there for 5 years and get:
3 weeks vacation
1 floating holiday (to be used as I want)
8 paid holidays (Christmas, Easter, etc).
Personal time (accrued at 36 minutes/pay period)
We can also work one of several "flex" schedules: 5 days/wk leave @ 3pm; 5 days/wk leave @ 12pm every Friday or work 5 days one week and 4 the other week (most people work this option).

I live in Canada,work in the retail sector. I get (as of this year) 5 weeks paid holidays, as well as 9 personal (sick) days, and any stat holidays such as Labour Day, Remembrance Day etc... It's great! I have no complaints, I love my job.