How Much Per Diem Should a 14 Year Old be Given on a School Trip to Europe
Mar 4th, 2009, 11:58 PM
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curiousgeo
You seem to have elicited a wide range of replies, some germaine, others not.
I have escorted many trips to Europe with high school groups. We leave in 2 days for 14 days in Egypt. Much of the advice you have received is excellent and spot on.
You son should be able to access about 35 Euros per day for personal spending. Remember, nearly all his purchases will be at "tourist locations" so he will be paying top rates. Include in your financial dealings any amount he will need for souvenirs or gifts to be brought home. My experience is students will be asked to pony up a cash amount for a tip for the Tour Director - probably about 20 - 25 Euros for an eight day trip (not including the 2 travel days).
EF is an established youth-oriented travel company. I am sure nearly everything will go smoothly - and they will have to adapt when it doesn't. Your son will have a wonderful time. Congratulations to you for making this investment in his future.
tC
You seem to have elicited a wide range of replies, some germaine, others not.
I have escorted many trips to Europe with high school groups. We leave in 2 days for 14 days in Egypt. Much of the advice you have received is excellent and spot on.
You son should be able to access about 35 Euros per day for personal spending. Remember, nearly all his purchases will be at "tourist locations" so he will be paying top rates. Include in your financial dealings any amount he will need for souvenirs or gifts to be brought home. My experience is students will be asked to pony up a cash amount for a tip for the Tour Director - probably about 20 - 25 Euros for an eight day trip (not including the 2 travel days).
EF is an established youth-oriented travel company. I am sure nearly everything will go smoothly - and they will have to adapt when it doesn't. Your son will have a wonderful time. Congratulations to you for making this investment in his future.
tC
Mar 5th, 2009, 07:39 AM
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If the tour company asks the students to "pony up" tips, I really think that is the wrong way of doing it, but I will, of course, based on the above, believe that it still goes on. The problem is that the students, who are clueless on money matters, should not be put in that position. The tour company should include a reasonable tip in the price and avoid the awkward situation. Adults are usually given guidelines as to what the tip should be, but adults know what the drill is and the kids don't. Also, asking the tour company to include it in the price would eliminate the need for the kids to carry the extra cash (and the risk of losing it).
Tour companies may still do this because, of course, it reduces the price of what they charge. It is always a question of making the tour saleable.
If you are running one of these tours as a group leader/teacher, you might want to consider having the students give you the tip ahead of time before the group leaves. You can squirrel it away safely (or convert it into a check if we are talking about a tour within the US. Of course, YOU have to be careful not to lose it, but you are likely to be more careful than the students.
All kids going on these tours sould have a parental heart-to-heart before leaving concerning really stupid souvenirs. They often piddle away their money on total trash. My advice is that it is better to buy ONE GOOD THING than a bunch of junk or cheap t-shirts that will shrink dramatically in the wash (or stupid baseball caps). Years later most of this stuff will end in the trash.
Tour companies may still do this because, of course, it reduces the price of what they charge. It is always a question of making the tour saleable.
If you are running one of these tours as a group leader/teacher, you might want to consider having the students give you the tip ahead of time before the group leaves. You can squirrel it away safely (or convert it into a check if we are talking about a tour within the US. Of course, YOU have to be careful not to lose it, but you are likely to be more careful than the students.
All kids going on these tours sould have a parental heart-to-heart before leaving concerning really stupid souvenirs. They often piddle away their money on total trash. My advice is that it is better to buy ONE GOOD THING than a bunch of junk or cheap t-shirts that will shrink dramatically in the wash (or stupid baseball caps). Years later most of this stuff will end in the trash.
Mar 5th, 2009, 09:22 AM
#63
Lauren - Fodor's is only valuable if the information is correct and accurate. You were giving an opinion of what you thought took place without ever having the experience and accurate information is more important than guesses. I was stating actual experience with multiple companies including EF, not guesses/opinions. Tips are never included in the prices from these companies and shouldn't be. In fact, it states right on the enrollment form that tips for tour directors/bus drivers/cruise staff are not included (under the section "what's not included in your tour fee"). Tip amounts are suggested by the student tour companies (for the bus driver and tour director - not local guides usually) and experienced group leaders do tend to ask for these in advance, but many group leaders aren't experienced and don't. On a 10 day trip that can amount to $2000-$2500 for the tour director. Inexperienced leaders also tend to figure travel days (flight days to and from US) in their tips even though they didn't get service on those days. Many students don't ever give their tip money at all. I've seen groups refuse to tip a tour director (EF) and that tour director (she didn't deserve a tip at all) chasing after the group in the airport screeming at them. This same tour director (along with the bus driver)I'm quite certain pulled a scam early in the trip and collected money from most of the students. Big sob story about the bus getting a ticket while parked for a group dinner and how the bus driver didn't make much money,etc. She actually got people to chip in several hundred € without ever seeing the ticket which, of course, wasn't their responsiblity anyway.
curiousgeo - Perhaps you should add to your "talk" with your child that he isn't responsible to pay for or contribute money for things that are the responsibility of the bus driver (parking ticket) or the tour director (supposed lost credit card) no matter how big of sob story.
curiousgeo - Perhaps you should add to your "talk" with your child that he isn't responsible to pay for or contribute money for things that are the responsibility of the bus driver (parking ticket) or the tour director (supposed lost credit card) no matter how big of sob story.
Mar 5th, 2009, 02:11 PM
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kybourbon - thank you for validating my thoughts. Everyone will have had their own personal experiences and it is only natural people will transfer their knowledge onto a broader plane. It is particularly dangerous to offer advice without clarifying your experience. LaurenKhan1, you have stated your background and that is most appropriate. Both your contributions are valuable when taken within the context they are offered. Readers of this forum should be wise enough to take advice with a grain of salt. When there are many contributors offering common thoughts, the validity of the advice improves - but even that is no guarantee.
We all love travel.
tC
We all love travel.
tC
Mar 6th, 2009, 05:35 AM
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On my trips with EF & CHA, tips were absolutely not part of the tour price. Trip leaders were given an envelope on the last day of the tour, and tips were collected then. Of course, after my first tour, I collected tips ahead of time.
Mar 19th, 2009, 07:49 AM
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I cannot understand why anyone would travel with EF Smithsonian Tours or any of their other divisions! They are definitely no-frills tours, not much supervision, and they have all sorts of hidden fees, membership fees, finance and late payment fees, insurance exclusions, and on-the-spot outlays of money. They also dislike giving cash refunds and try to placate people with travel vouchers for future trips.
I only work for and use companies that are all-inclusive. They may seem more expensive upfront, but in the long run are cheaper and students are chaperoned and guided in a much more responsible manner. They also don't raise prices or change dates at the last minute.
With EF, it's all sightseeing and no real education.
The major reason teachers book with them is because of all the monetary and travel perks, which is actually against most laws in the US.
I only work for and use companies that are all-inclusive. They may seem more expensive upfront, but in the long run are cheaper and students are chaperoned and guided in a much more responsible manner. They also don't raise prices or change dates at the last minute.
With EF, it's all sightseeing and no real education.
The major reason teachers book with them is because of all the monetary and travel perks, which is actually against most laws in the US.
Mar 19th, 2009, 11:10 AM
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The real reason teachers use them is the rock bottom price. They are also really not that different than a lot of other student tour companies. It is all a question of economics and no one has infinite sums of money.
And, if you pay rock bottom price, of course, the tour is arranged differently than if you went with a high end travel company. There are always more "options" for fees on a low end tour. You do not have to take them, but often you want to and that is the problem. Another problem is that people do not read the small print in the tour contract where all of this should be explained--and then complain later.
If you charge too much for the group trip, then fewer kids can go. So, there are lots of considerations.
People to People and Close Up offer more of an educational component insofar as Washington, DC, is concerned (I have no foreign experience with either). World Strides has a booklet the kids get, but I would hardly call that "education". But, when you go with a group of kids, no matter what the "educational" content, many of the kids are just there to have a good time. After all, they are kids.
When you complain about lack of "educational" content, how many days do you have for the trip?
If you are going to 3 places in Italy (usually Rome, Florence and Venice) in a week, how much educational content can there be? To have a good trip, the teacher in charge and his/her staff should have adequately prepared the kids ahead of time. Then they know what they are seeing instead of just snapping photos.
The same could be said for adults taking any tour. I always do a lot of research before I leave home, but some people just show up with no preparation. They just schlep around from place to place (whether on a group tour or on independent travel) and have no clue about the history, artists, etc. It becomes a forced march rather than a vacation. Not fun.
On almost all student trips the group leader/head teacher goes free, but it is not a vacation for him--just as it isn't for me as a tour director. I often do not even go into the museums in DC to see anything when on tour because I am busy calling the next location, straightening out messes further on during the tour (so the group does not know there was a mess), etc. If I have a break in the action, I sit down. It's work. And, if a kid gets injured or sick. . . .
Smithsonian has a niche in the tour business. It may not be YOUR niche, but it is definitely the tour company of choice for many due to the fact that it is low end.
And, if you pay rock bottom price, of course, the tour is arranged differently than if you went with a high end travel company. There are always more "options" for fees on a low end tour. You do not have to take them, but often you want to and that is the problem. Another problem is that people do not read the small print in the tour contract where all of this should be explained--and then complain later.
If you charge too much for the group trip, then fewer kids can go. So, there are lots of considerations.
People to People and Close Up offer more of an educational component insofar as Washington, DC, is concerned (I have no foreign experience with either). World Strides has a booklet the kids get, but I would hardly call that "education". But, when you go with a group of kids, no matter what the "educational" content, many of the kids are just there to have a good time. After all, they are kids.
When you complain about lack of "educational" content, how many days do you have for the trip?
If you are going to 3 places in Italy (usually Rome, Florence and Venice) in a week, how much educational content can there be? To have a good trip, the teacher in charge and his/her staff should have adequately prepared the kids ahead of time. Then they know what they are seeing instead of just snapping photos.
The same could be said for adults taking any tour. I always do a lot of research before I leave home, but some people just show up with no preparation. They just schlep around from place to place (whether on a group tour or on independent travel) and have no clue about the history, artists, etc. It becomes a forced march rather than a vacation. Not fun.
On almost all student trips the group leader/head teacher goes free, but it is not a vacation for him--just as it isn't for me as a tour director. I often do not even go into the museums in DC to see anything when on tour because I am busy calling the next location, straightening out messes further on during the tour (so the group does not know there was a mess), etc. If I have a break in the action, I sit down. It's work. And, if a kid gets injured or sick. . . .
Smithsonian has a niche in the tour business. It may not be YOUR niche, but it is definitely the tour company of choice for many due to the fact that it is low end.
Mar 19th, 2009, 11:19 AM
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On almost all tours, guides/tour directors do not pay for their meals. In fact, tour companies are supposed to pay for their meals. So, let me get this straight. Tour directors are told where to stop. They do not choose. Sometimes meals, such as dinners, are optional and the tour clients "scatter" and get what they want. Then the tour director may not get a free meal. Most of the places student tour companies eat are pizza, spaghetti or hamburgers. Believe me, there are times when, as I tour director, I do not eat at all because I get so sick of the food. The kids, however, are not gourmets and the tour is for them--not for the adults accompanying them. Smithsonian is a STUDENT tour company.
Insofar as meals are concerned, tour groups cannot just eat anywhere. They have to eat in places that can handle groups. Needless to say those places are often not high end restaurants. In Washington, DC, we patronize every food court. Yes, I don't pay (I get a voucher just like the kids) but I don't choose the places either. If they say we are going to Hard Rock Cafe, I groan. The meal of choice there is luke warm hamburgers. I get the caesar salad. Hard Rock can get a group of 100 kids in, fed, toileted and out the door (by the overpriced gift shop) in 25-30 minutes. You call that dinner?
Insofar as meals are concerned, tour groups cannot just eat anywhere. They have to eat in places that can handle groups. Needless to say those places are often not high end restaurants. In Washington, DC, we patronize every food court. Yes, I don't pay (I get a voucher just like the kids) but I don't choose the places either. If they say we are going to Hard Rock Cafe, I groan. The meal of choice there is luke warm hamburgers. I get the caesar salad. Hard Rock can get a group of 100 kids in, fed, toileted and out the door (by the overpriced gift shop) in 25-30 minutes. You call that dinner?
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:17 AM
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Lauren,
We've gotten a bit off-topic, but I haven't seen this conversation anywhere else, so I shall continue.
First: My position is from my passionate advocacy of educational travel, rather than student sightseeing, and fiduciary responsibility.
Rock bottom price! Are you serious? EF/Smithsonian Student Tours is NOT cheaper, although it is indeed, the 'low end' in service.
Having worked in the US and abroad, for the past 25 years, with several student and commercial tour operators, I can safely say that EF costs, in the long run, MORE than other full-service all-inclusive companies such as Casterbridge (for international) or some of the companies I work with in the US. The program price that EF initially quotes is a few hundred dollars off the final cost. (In one recent case, off by $700.!) Their pricing can be quite deceptive as things are added and changed up to the time of departure! But the teachers and parents only remember the low-ball' program price' and marketing, but not all their credit card statements or the amount of cash they had to give their students.
Even some adult commercial companies that have contracted me to run student trips, both here and abroad, have done a better job, at a lower cost, than EF! It has also been demonstrated time after time by some of my schools that have 'shopped' around that EF was more expensive (which I encourage because it is truly their fiduciary responsibility).
As an independent, professional, curriculum-based educational program designer and planner, I know first-hand about the costing of these programs because I have worked both in the field and in various student tour operators' offices. The large companies have tremendous overhead and some are owned and/or operated by venture capitalists that require a hefty return on their investment. The addition of the questionable teacher 'stipends', 'loyalty rewards', 'bonuses', 'finders fees', free travel, professional development, and other 'considerations', beyond a free trip for the teacher, jack up the prices. One company marks up nearly 100% of the cost, that is to say, 50% of what you pay, goes to the company.
That doesn't leave much for the students.
That is why I now refuse to work with these companies and contract only a few good ones to operate my trips. I'm a direct advocate for my schools, teachers, students, and parents, rather than for a tour operator. I want them to receive the best program for the fairest price.
So how much really goes into these program for the students? Hmm, let's see: Hotels far from the city centers, meal vouchers at food courts, inexperienced escorts, one perfunctory 4-hour city sightseeing tour per venue, mostly free admissions (in DC) and inadequate insurance? Not much.
Then on top of it, the students need to 'pony up' tips/gratuities, meals, taxes, luggage fees, some admissions, as well as their souvenir money in the field. Insult on injury - several unscrupulous tour guides and bus drivers take advantage of the students by bringing them to places to get commissions.
Why not just pay the guide decently, professionally, up-front (included in the price of the tour) and have the company take care of the built-in driver tip commensurate with the quality of service, as well as all the other taxes, tips, admissions, and fees in the field?
However, even in the US, we have undercut good quality guides and educational programs: Look at what happened to the seasoned, 24-hour, educational tour guides/educators that had worked for a couple of the larger companies: they've been let go or forced to become step-on guides. These guides knew the national standards and curricula and partnered with the teachers and administrators to provide a more cohesive educational experience. Unfortunately, new schools signing up for educational trips can no longer have these professional teacher-guides that stayed with the group from arrival to departure. That means, no running commentary from venue to venue and difficulty bonding with the group. What a loss!
Does EF put hands-on and experiential experiences or cross-curricular content on the trip? I haven't experienced any. And yes, I have worked for them.
Furthermore, no student should travel abroad without having, at least, rudimentary knowledge of the monetary system, history, geography, culture, customs, or politics of each respective nation they visit. Teachers who do not prepare their groups for the trip in advance are neither interested in the educational value nor their students. It's a gross disservice to all. Certainly, they're not earning any of their 'benefits'. That's why many of them turn out to be such bad chaperones: they're not really engaged, they just want a free trip and some cash.
Please don't underestimate students!
The students on my trips do not eat in themed restaurants and we try to avoid food courts unless it is expedient; they can do that at home. Those on my trips tend to like dining at ethnic or finer restaurants and I often add an historic character interpreter or musician to entertain during dinner, or even lunch. They like inter-active hands-on discoveries, first person encounters, themed mini-tours, overnight adventure camps, and off-the-beaten-track venues. It makes them feel like VIP's - which they are.
I'm not the only one out there providing these services - and at the same cost as the 'big boys'.
Part of what we should do is to raise the bar and teach students (and teachers) how to travel, enjoy new experiences, enhance their studies, and open up new vistas, rather than pandering to the base and obvious.
We've gotten a bit off-topic, but I haven't seen this conversation anywhere else, so I shall continue.
First: My position is from my passionate advocacy of educational travel, rather than student sightseeing, and fiduciary responsibility.
Rock bottom price! Are you serious? EF/Smithsonian Student Tours is NOT cheaper, although it is indeed, the 'low end' in service.
Having worked in the US and abroad, for the past 25 years, with several student and commercial tour operators, I can safely say that EF costs, in the long run, MORE than other full-service all-inclusive companies such as Casterbridge (for international) or some of the companies I work with in the US. The program price that EF initially quotes is a few hundred dollars off the final cost. (In one recent case, off by $700.!) Their pricing can be quite deceptive as things are added and changed up to the time of departure! But the teachers and parents only remember the low-ball' program price' and marketing, but not all their credit card statements or the amount of cash they had to give their students.
Even some adult commercial companies that have contracted me to run student trips, both here and abroad, have done a better job, at a lower cost, than EF! It has also been demonstrated time after time by some of my schools that have 'shopped' around that EF was more expensive (which I encourage because it is truly their fiduciary responsibility).
As an independent, professional, curriculum-based educational program designer and planner, I know first-hand about the costing of these programs because I have worked both in the field and in various student tour operators' offices. The large companies have tremendous overhead and some are owned and/or operated by venture capitalists that require a hefty return on their investment. The addition of the questionable teacher 'stipends', 'loyalty rewards', 'bonuses', 'finders fees', free travel, professional development, and other 'considerations', beyond a free trip for the teacher, jack up the prices. One company marks up nearly 100% of the cost, that is to say, 50% of what you pay, goes to the company.
That doesn't leave much for the students.
That is why I now refuse to work with these companies and contract only a few good ones to operate my trips. I'm a direct advocate for my schools, teachers, students, and parents, rather than for a tour operator. I want them to receive the best program for the fairest price.
So how much really goes into these program for the students? Hmm, let's see: Hotels far from the city centers, meal vouchers at food courts, inexperienced escorts, one perfunctory 4-hour city sightseeing tour per venue, mostly free admissions (in DC) and inadequate insurance? Not much.
Then on top of it, the students need to 'pony up' tips/gratuities, meals, taxes, luggage fees, some admissions, as well as their souvenir money in the field. Insult on injury - several unscrupulous tour guides and bus drivers take advantage of the students by bringing them to places to get commissions.
Why not just pay the guide decently, professionally, up-front (included in the price of the tour) and have the company take care of the built-in driver tip commensurate with the quality of service, as well as all the other taxes, tips, admissions, and fees in the field?
However, even in the US, we have undercut good quality guides and educational programs: Look at what happened to the seasoned, 24-hour, educational tour guides/educators that had worked for a couple of the larger companies: they've been let go or forced to become step-on guides. These guides knew the national standards and curricula and partnered with the teachers and administrators to provide a more cohesive educational experience. Unfortunately, new schools signing up for educational trips can no longer have these professional teacher-guides that stayed with the group from arrival to departure. That means, no running commentary from venue to venue and difficulty bonding with the group. What a loss!
Does EF put hands-on and experiential experiences or cross-curricular content on the trip? I haven't experienced any. And yes, I have worked for them.
Furthermore, no student should travel abroad without having, at least, rudimentary knowledge of the monetary system, history, geography, culture, customs, or politics of each respective nation they visit. Teachers who do not prepare their groups for the trip in advance are neither interested in the educational value nor their students. It's a gross disservice to all. Certainly, they're not earning any of their 'benefits'. That's why many of them turn out to be such bad chaperones: they're not really engaged, they just want a free trip and some cash.
Please don't underestimate students!
The students on my trips do not eat in themed restaurants and we try to avoid food courts unless it is expedient; they can do that at home. Those on my trips tend to like dining at ethnic or finer restaurants and I often add an historic character interpreter or musician to entertain during dinner, or even lunch. They like inter-active hands-on discoveries, first person encounters, themed mini-tours, overnight adventure camps, and off-the-beaten-track venues. It makes them feel like VIP's - which they are.
I'm not the only one out there providing these services - and at the same cost as the 'big boys'.
Part of what we should do is to raise the bar and teach students (and teachers) how to travel, enjoy new experiences, enhance their studies, and open up new vistas, rather than pandering to the base and obvious.
Mar 20th, 2009, 11:52 AM
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Tourgoddess, if you need a tour director/step on in DC, you can contact me at [email protected].
I am also licensed in NYC.
When I do one of these trips, the whole difference is the teacher who prepared the kids (or did not). For the few days I have the kids in DC, all I can do is attempt to deliver good commentary (and get the bus where it needs to go on a typically overstuffed schedule). I have to tell you that I work regularly as a step on guide on 6 and 3 hour tours and those tours are packed with commentary. Student tours often end up in just getting a clueless bus driver around DC. Many of my groups come in on a bus because it is cheaper than flying. If I have to teach the bus driver (and sometimes an out of town tour director as well), the commentary, of course suffers. There does come a point in these tours where the students stop listening. Then I shut up because I have hit the wall.
If I go to some out of town site with the kids (normally Mount Vernon or the Museum of the Marine Corps (GREAT on the way to Williamsburg), I do have videos to show the kids on the bus to prepare them. They do get tired of listening to me all the time and I have to vary the program if I want them to pay attention.
On every tour there are kids in the back of the bus fooling around. On the other hand, there are kids who listen to every word. My commentary is delivered to the listeners. The last thing I tell them is to be sure and thank their parents for paying for the trip. Then they get an assignment from me. That is to read a book about something they saw in DC when they return home.
I am also licensed in NYC.
When I do one of these trips, the whole difference is the teacher who prepared the kids (or did not). For the few days I have the kids in DC, all I can do is attempt to deliver good commentary (and get the bus where it needs to go on a typically overstuffed schedule). I have to tell you that I work regularly as a step on guide on 6 and 3 hour tours and those tours are packed with commentary. Student tours often end up in just getting a clueless bus driver around DC. Many of my groups come in on a bus because it is cheaper than flying. If I have to teach the bus driver (and sometimes an out of town tour director as well), the commentary, of course suffers. There does come a point in these tours where the students stop listening. Then I shut up because I have hit the wall.
If I go to some out of town site with the kids (normally Mount Vernon or the Museum of the Marine Corps (GREAT on the way to Williamsburg), I do have videos to show the kids on the bus to prepare them. They do get tired of listening to me all the time and I have to vary the program if I want them to pay attention.
On every tour there are kids in the back of the bus fooling around. On the other hand, there are kids who listen to every word. My commentary is delivered to the listeners. The last thing I tell them is to be sure and thank their parents for paying for the trip. Then they get an assignment from me. That is to read a book about something they saw in DC when they return home.
Mar 20th, 2009, 06:12 PM
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I didn't mean to get into this long rant.
I, too, have a DC and NY license, so I appreciate the wealth of knowledge you have.
Lauren, I am always looking for good educational tour guides and will keep you in mind for the future; I definitely think that you deserve better, professionally, than you are getting, although even reaching one student on those whirlwind tours and perhaps changing a life, is well worth the effort on your part. Someone on your bus is going to 'get it' as a result of your passion. It's the reason why I stay in this crazy profession.
But at least you are traveling with a company that takes you along to Williamsburg, most don't anymore. Too many travel from place to place without the benefit of a guide and could be at the mercy of a clueless driver following flawed GPS.
Having facilitators or 'escorts' in hotels is not an acceptable substitution. Again, this is how the service is being cut.
And yes, the US Marine Corps Museum is spectacular and I have scheduled tours there for my groups. I also stop in Fredericksburg (what a great place!) to visit the Hugh Mercer Apothecary, Rising Sun Tavern, 'The Wall' at Marye's Heights, and then onto Richmond.
Not one of my trips is under 6 days and some do more outside DC, because DC has become so oversaturated and accessibility to federal buildings during the height of the season is limited. You also need to make and reconfirm a bevy of appointments - which all end up over-lapping! (Priorities must be set.)
Many of these companies will not even assist the teachers with (or even mention the necessity of) appointments. Again, a cut in service. Two guides I know who haved worked with EF for the past two years have yet to visit the Capitol with their groups! Unbelievable! Only the most seasoned teachers traveling with the no-frills comopanies seem to know how to secure appointments; most appointments don't even cost anything.
This season, I have been supplementing my earnings with some step-on work; what an eye-opener! Many of my colleagues in the field have become downright lazy and not very resourceful when faced with obstacles (as you know DC is full of those!). As I usually end up on the last bus of a convoy, it has been a lesson in humility.
And what's the pleasure of visiting the Smithsonian museums on the mall packed with un-focused hoardes of screaming students? Too intense. I prefer to take them to the NGA, Portrait Gallery, National Building Museum, and Udvar Hazy.
Also, I make substitutions: i.e. Gunston Hall for Mount Vernon.
Some groups are more adventurous and visit other destinations for their annual trip, while still keeping with their curriculum objectives. A California school did a seven day trip of New York State from Niagara down to Manhattan and then followed the next year with a seven day Boston-based trip. Both covered all the curriculum objectives as well as some not available in the DC/VA/MD/PA area. This same group is doing a Land of Lincoln trip in honor of the bicentennial of his birth.
I guess my advantage is that I plan the itineraries with the teachers and administrators, produce a contract of rules for student and adult conduct in the field, fly wherever necessary to meet with the group at least twice (once to introduce the trip, and the other for last minute orientation. (I just returned from three such school visits in California.)
My adults are always seated in the back of the bus, in what I call the 'coffee klatch', so we can have a 'classroom' situation in the front. After all, this trip is for the kids.
And yes, I also put in DVD's, music, play games, and let them have some 'down time' and social time.
But the subject was originally money. How much to give a student on a trip per day: Domestic; Souvenirs: US $20 per day Lunch (if not included $12-$15. Dinner on the flight home $10. $ 30-$50. for luggage. $35 total for tips to guides and drivers.
For Europe per day: Souvenirs: E30, Meals: E25 Euros, Misc: E15. Total Tips: E50. Baggage E50. if it is not on a fully escorted trip.
Nothing but a thank-you note should go to the teacher.
If you were to work for me, the students bring only their souvenir money. My trips are all-inclusive.
Good luck!
I, too, have a DC and NY license, so I appreciate the wealth of knowledge you have.
Lauren, I am always looking for good educational tour guides and will keep you in mind for the future; I definitely think that you deserve better, professionally, than you are getting, although even reaching one student on those whirlwind tours and perhaps changing a life, is well worth the effort on your part. Someone on your bus is going to 'get it' as a result of your passion. It's the reason why I stay in this crazy profession.
But at least you are traveling with a company that takes you along to Williamsburg, most don't anymore. Too many travel from place to place without the benefit of a guide and could be at the mercy of a clueless driver following flawed GPS.
Having facilitators or 'escorts' in hotels is not an acceptable substitution. Again, this is how the service is being cut.
And yes, the US Marine Corps Museum is spectacular and I have scheduled tours there for my groups. I also stop in Fredericksburg (what a great place!) to visit the Hugh Mercer Apothecary, Rising Sun Tavern, 'The Wall' at Marye's Heights, and then onto Richmond.
Not one of my trips is under 6 days and some do more outside DC, because DC has become so oversaturated and accessibility to federal buildings during the height of the season is limited. You also need to make and reconfirm a bevy of appointments - which all end up over-lapping! (Priorities must be set.)
Many of these companies will not even assist the teachers with (or even mention the necessity of) appointments. Again, a cut in service. Two guides I know who haved worked with EF for the past two years have yet to visit the Capitol with their groups! Unbelievable! Only the most seasoned teachers traveling with the no-frills comopanies seem to know how to secure appointments; most appointments don't even cost anything.
This season, I have been supplementing my earnings with some step-on work; what an eye-opener! Many of my colleagues in the field have become downright lazy and not very resourceful when faced with obstacles (as you know DC is full of those!). As I usually end up on the last bus of a convoy, it has been a lesson in humility.
And what's the pleasure of visiting the Smithsonian museums on the mall packed with un-focused hoardes of screaming students? Too intense. I prefer to take them to the NGA, Portrait Gallery, National Building Museum, and Udvar Hazy.
Also, I make substitutions: i.e. Gunston Hall for Mount Vernon.
Some groups are more adventurous and visit other destinations for their annual trip, while still keeping with their curriculum objectives. A California school did a seven day trip of New York State from Niagara down to Manhattan and then followed the next year with a seven day Boston-based trip. Both covered all the curriculum objectives as well as some not available in the DC/VA/MD/PA area. This same group is doing a Land of Lincoln trip in honor of the bicentennial of his birth.
I guess my advantage is that I plan the itineraries with the teachers and administrators, produce a contract of rules for student and adult conduct in the field, fly wherever necessary to meet with the group at least twice (once to introduce the trip, and the other for last minute orientation. (I just returned from three such school visits in California.)
My adults are always seated in the back of the bus, in what I call the 'coffee klatch', so we can have a 'classroom' situation in the front. After all, this trip is for the kids.
And yes, I also put in DVD's, music, play games, and let them have some 'down time' and social time.
But the subject was originally money. How much to give a student on a trip per day: Domestic; Souvenirs: US $20 per day Lunch (if not included $12-$15. Dinner on the flight home $10. $ 30-$50. for luggage. $35 total for tips to guides and drivers.
For Europe per day: Souvenirs: E30, Meals: E25 Euros, Misc: E15. Total Tips: E50. Baggage E50. if it is not on a fully escorted trip.
Nothing but a thank-you note should go to the teacher.
If you were to work for me, the students bring only their souvenir money. My trips are all-inclusive.
Good luck!
Mar 20th, 2009, 08:39 PM
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I love Fredericksburg. It is a nice alternative to CW. Fewer people go there and, given time constraints, it can be as meaningful as CW--not to mention that it takes less time to go there.
I just did a 3 hour monument tour tonight in the freezing cold. Many guides here are just interested in working when the weather is nice.
I do agree that having a tour escort is not as meaningful as having someone who actually knows something. Some of the guides overseas are pretty crummy as well. I remember years ago, I was taking a tour in Italy on a bus and asked a guide a question. The answer was "I only speak English on the bus." The guide had memorized a schpiel and didn't really speak English. On the other hand, British and Austrian guides have a rigorous training program and are generally great.
The exams in DC and NYC are senseless if you want to keep good people in and bad people out. In DC, I passed the exam to guide in French but mostly just use it to take people to the airport--which is fine. My French is great overseas but is a bit too rusty for guiding in French here. Of course, if I get started using it, it will come back but I would probably butcher a lot of verbs along the way.
I am perfectly content staying in the MidAtlantic, but I would not say "no" to an occasional overseas trips if they come along. I just don't want to be one of those people who does the same tour back to back forever. Variety would be nice.
Lots of tour groups go to Udvar-Hazy now for the same reasons you state. I wish more schools would raise money in the spring and come in the fall. It is nuts for everyone to come in the spring within 6 weeks. I do agree with mixing up the sites to avoid crowds, but, don't you get resistance from the groups who feel they are missing something? They have the list of sites that they feel they have to see.
Groups can get into the Capitol Visitor's Center even if they do not have a tour reserved. The problem is the Capitol Police and the security which bars tour groups from Capitol Hill. I have had Capitol tours take 3 hours out of a schedule due to the Police simply taking their time about letting people in. Their security justification is stupid as public buses and cars are a greater danger (as in what goes on in Israel) than tour buses. It is all a question of looking like they are doing something to demonstrate that they are "fighting terrorism". Most tours I do just do the outside of The Capitol unless the teacher in charge makes the arrangements. I do recommend that people get Capitol tours directly from the website and NOT through their Congressman. If I have to listen to another intern give a tour who knows NOTHING and makes up facts, I will scream.
By the way, I was in the US Capitol today in a location where very few go. I climbed up to the top of the dome with a Congressman. The Congressman is a neighbor and I did him a huge favor. I didn't even think about the dome tour until afterwards. When I asked him, he was glad to do it. I took 5 fellow guides with me. It was the first time the Congressman and his wife had been to the top. What a view. You go up between the dome that existed before the current one. The dome that you see is, I think, the dome that existed before the dome that we know went up in Lincoln's time. We got a lot of photos up on top right under the statue of Freedom. As they say in that commercial "priceless". It was an experience I will probably never have again.
We have diverted much of this thread. Please email me directly at [email protected] and we can continue this discussion.
I definitely agree that all inclusive tours are preferable to ones where people are nickle and dimed throughout the tour. That just makes people angry--not to mention the way the extras are sold. No thanks.
By the way, if you get in a pickle with someone getting sick, and needing a replacement, I do find people for such jobs and have a 100% success rate through using a couple of websites. It has gotten to the point where someone sent me a list of available dates and I thought, "What am I? A tour company?" Within a few days, I got the guy a Boston tour (I couldn't do it and one of my friends needed a replacement). Unbelievable.
By the way I do not mind food court meals for the kids it is food they like. If they have cash instead of vouchers, I have been known to arrange a Chinese meal where everyone can sit down. That can be done sometimes for the same price as a food court (depending on budget). Depending where they are staying (and how much is budgeted), there are also some buffet options. The place I really dislike is The Hard Rock. That is just not value for money and it is a way to entrap the kids in the gift shop to buy overpriced t-shirts.
No matter how you try to avoid shopping, the kids all buy hats that say "FBI" or "CIA". The stuff sold at the inauguration took tacky to a new level.
I do agree with your suggestions as to amount of money to bring for the kids. The teacher needs to be on top of kids running out of money--which does happen because the kids do sometimes blow their cash on some ridiculous purchase.
I had to laugh about the clueless driver with a GPS. Been there. I really don't mind if the driver doesn't know--so long as he is honest about it. If a driver tells me he needs help, that is fine, but the ones with the macho attitude I could live without. They tell me they "know DC". 2 minutes later they make a wrong turn. Oy! Generally, I find women bus drivers to be the easiest to work with. I had one trip last year with an inexperienced TD and bus driver. I calmed them down and said, "We will get through this. They will have a good time and, when you come back the next time, you will be an expert." We had a great time--and so did the group. Everyone has to start somewhere, but it is just a question of attitude. However a tour company should never put an inexperienced TD with an inexperienced driver. One or the other should know the ropes--and where they are going. But it does happen.
Nice talking to you. Sounds like your tours must be wonderful.
I just did a 3 hour monument tour tonight in the freezing cold. Many guides here are just interested in working when the weather is nice.
I do agree that having a tour escort is not as meaningful as having someone who actually knows something. Some of the guides overseas are pretty crummy as well. I remember years ago, I was taking a tour in Italy on a bus and asked a guide a question. The answer was "I only speak English on the bus." The guide had memorized a schpiel and didn't really speak English. On the other hand, British and Austrian guides have a rigorous training program and are generally great.
The exams in DC and NYC are senseless if you want to keep good people in and bad people out. In DC, I passed the exam to guide in French but mostly just use it to take people to the airport--which is fine. My French is great overseas but is a bit too rusty for guiding in French here. Of course, if I get started using it, it will come back but I would probably butcher a lot of verbs along the way.
I am perfectly content staying in the MidAtlantic, but I would not say "no" to an occasional overseas trips if they come along. I just don't want to be one of those people who does the same tour back to back forever. Variety would be nice.
Lots of tour groups go to Udvar-Hazy now for the same reasons you state. I wish more schools would raise money in the spring and come in the fall. It is nuts for everyone to come in the spring within 6 weeks. I do agree with mixing up the sites to avoid crowds, but, don't you get resistance from the groups who feel they are missing something? They have the list of sites that they feel they have to see.
Groups can get into the Capitol Visitor's Center even if they do not have a tour reserved. The problem is the Capitol Police and the security which bars tour groups from Capitol Hill. I have had Capitol tours take 3 hours out of a schedule due to the Police simply taking their time about letting people in. Their security justification is stupid as public buses and cars are a greater danger (as in what goes on in Israel) than tour buses. It is all a question of looking like they are doing something to demonstrate that they are "fighting terrorism". Most tours I do just do the outside of The Capitol unless the teacher in charge makes the arrangements. I do recommend that people get Capitol tours directly from the website and NOT through their Congressman. If I have to listen to another intern give a tour who knows NOTHING and makes up facts, I will scream.
By the way, I was in the US Capitol today in a location where very few go. I climbed up to the top of the dome with a Congressman. The Congressman is a neighbor and I did him a huge favor. I didn't even think about the dome tour until afterwards. When I asked him, he was glad to do it. I took 5 fellow guides with me. It was the first time the Congressman and his wife had been to the top. What a view. You go up between the dome that existed before the current one. The dome that you see is, I think, the dome that existed before the dome that we know went up in Lincoln's time. We got a lot of photos up on top right under the statue of Freedom. As they say in that commercial "priceless". It was an experience I will probably never have again.
We have diverted much of this thread. Please email me directly at [email protected] and we can continue this discussion.
I definitely agree that all inclusive tours are preferable to ones where people are nickle and dimed throughout the tour. That just makes people angry--not to mention the way the extras are sold. No thanks.
By the way, if you get in a pickle with someone getting sick, and needing a replacement, I do find people for such jobs and have a 100% success rate through using a couple of websites. It has gotten to the point where someone sent me a list of available dates and I thought, "What am I? A tour company?" Within a few days, I got the guy a Boston tour (I couldn't do it and one of my friends needed a replacement). Unbelievable.
By the way I do not mind food court meals for the kids it is food they like. If they have cash instead of vouchers, I have been known to arrange a Chinese meal where everyone can sit down. That can be done sometimes for the same price as a food court (depending on budget). Depending where they are staying (and how much is budgeted), there are also some buffet options. The place I really dislike is The Hard Rock. That is just not value for money and it is a way to entrap the kids in the gift shop to buy overpriced t-shirts.
No matter how you try to avoid shopping, the kids all buy hats that say "FBI" or "CIA". The stuff sold at the inauguration took tacky to a new level.
I do agree with your suggestions as to amount of money to bring for the kids. The teacher needs to be on top of kids running out of money--which does happen because the kids do sometimes blow their cash on some ridiculous purchase.
I had to laugh about the clueless driver with a GPS. Been there. I really don't mind if the driver doesn't know--so long as he is honest about it. If a driver tells me he needs help, that is fine, but the ones with the macho attitude I could live without. They tell me they "know DC". 2 minutes later they make a wrong turn. Oy! Generally, I find women bus drivers to be the easiest to work with. I had one trip last year with an inexperienced TD and bus driver. I calmed them down and said, "We will get through this. They will have a good time and, when you come back the next time, you will be an expert." We had a great time--and so did the group. Everyone has to start somewhere, but it is just a question of attitude. However a tour company should never put an inexperienced TD with an inexperienced driver. One or the other should know the ropes--and where they are going. But it does happen.
Nice talking to you. Sounds like your tours must be wonderful.
Mar 25th, 2009, 10:51 AM
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Re Tap water in Europe. Some tap water is for drinking and some is for washing. In hotel rooms and public bathrooms it will not be drinking water normally. It all comes from the same source, it is just that water for washing is stored (of course some of it is heated) and the storage areas are not as hygienic because it is not intended for human consumption. In a restaurant a jug of tap water will be drinking water but advising children, who may not be able to read the signs that identify what is and what is not drinking water, to use tap water is very dangerous. There are drinking fountains available but these are clearly differentiated. In a cafe if you buy a drink they will usually give you a glass of tap water free if asked.
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Nov 13th, 2010 09:21 PM
