How long to spend in each city?
Feb 20th, 2011, 11:34 PM
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How long to spend in each city?
I'm planning a 3 month trip to Europe (April - June). Below is my itinerary with my wish list of places to visit.
Amsterdam: 3.5 days (city I will fly into, so the first day will be jet-leggy)
Bruges: 3 days (day trip to Ghent?)
Paris: 5.5 days (day trips to Giverny, Versailles, Chartres)
Tours: 2 days (see chateaus)
Nimes:4 days (day trips to Arles, Aix-en-Provence, Lourmarin)
Florence: 5 days
Cinque Terre: 3 days
Rome: 6 days (day trip to Pompeii)
Venice: 2 days
Munich: 7 days (day trips to Innsbruck, Mittenwald, Hallstatt, Passau)
Salzburg: 2 days
Nuremburg: 3 days (day trips to Regensburg, Bamberg)
Erfurt: 2.5 days (day trips to Quedlinburg, Wernigeode)
Berlin: 4.5 days
Bremen: 1.5 days
Munster: 3 days
Frankfurt: 4.5 days (day trip to Bad Kreuznach)
Metz: 2 days
Strasbourg: 9 days (day trips to Colmar, Schiltach, Tubingen, Freiburg)
Lucerne: 3 days
Interlaken: 4 days
Bern: 4 days
Lyon: 3 days (day trip to Annecy)
Obviously I can't do all of this, and I'll need to cut out some day trips(maybe add some in Switzerland). I haven't looked much into Italy, but perhaps I will want to spend more time there than in Germany? Are there any places that I'm spending too much/too little time? Any places you would cut or add? This will be my first time to Europe, but hopefully not my last!
Thanks for your advice!
Amsterdam: 3.5 days (city I will fly into, so the first day will be jet-leggy)
Bruges: 3 days (day trip to Ghent?)
Paris: 5.5 days (day trips to Giverny, Versailles, Chartres)
Tours: 2 days (see chateaus)
Nimes:4 days (day trips to Arles, Aix-en-Provence, Lourmarin)
Florence: 5 days
Cinque Terre: 3 days
Rome: 6 days (day trip to Pompeii)
Venice: 2 days
Munich: 7 days (day trips to Innsbruck, Mittenwald, Hallstatt, Passau)
Salzburg: 2 days
Nuremburg: 3 days (day trips to Regensburg, Bamberg)
Erfurt: 2.5 days (day trips to Quedlinburg, Wernigeode)
Berlin: 4.5 days
Bremen: 1.5 days
Munster: 3 days
Frankfurt: 4.5 days (day trip to Bad Kreuznach)
Metz: 2 days
Strasbourg: 9 days (day trips to Colmar, Schiltach, Tubingen, Freiburg)
Lucerne: 3 days
Interlaken: 4 days
Bern: 4 days
Lyon: 3 days (day trip to Annecy)
Obviously I can't do all of this, and I'll need to cut out some day trips(maybe add some in Switzerland). I haven't looked much into Italy, but perhaps I will want to spend more time there than in Germany? Are there any places that I'm spending too much/too little time? Any places you would cut or add? This will be my first time to Europe, but hopefully not my last!
Thanks for your advice!
Feb 21st, 2011, 12:33 AM
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A bit overwhelming.
Day trips to Wernigerode and Quedlinburg from Erfurt? Not the best idea - quite a long distance. Weimar and Eisenach would make more sense. And Erfurt itself deserves a full day at least.
Bern and Interlaken - too close to each other to spend 4 nights in each. Either trade Bern for a place at Lake Geneva or add the days to Interlaken. Which is, btw, not my favourite in the region. Somewhere up, really *in* the mountains would be much nicer. Grindelwald, Wengen, Mürren or Lauterbrunnen. Or, if you're not interested in the mountains, Thun has more charm than Interlaken and is a town of decent size.
Day trips to Wernigerode and Quedlinburg from Erfurt? Not the best idea - quite a long distance. Weimar and Eisenach would make more sense. And Erfurt itself deserves a full day at least.
Bern and Interlaken - too close to each other to spend 4 nights in each. Either trade Bern for a place at Lake Geneva or add the days to Interlaken. Which is, btw, not my favourite in the region. Somewhere up, really *in* the mountains would be much nicer. Grindelwald, Wengen, Mürren or Lauterbrunnen. Or, if you're not interested in the mountains, Thun has more charm than Interlaken and is a town of decent size.
Feb 21st, 2011, 02:29 AM
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Overwhelming, indeed.
Paris.. I think either too many day trips or not enough days in Paris
Nimes.. I think I'd rather base myself in Aix or Avignon
Munich.. Hallstatt is near Salzburg. Day-trip from there and/or add another night to Salzburg.
Erfurt.. ditto what Ingo wrote. Or swap Erfurt for Dresden, and do a night in Quedlinburg or Wernigerode on your way from Berlin to Bremen
Bremen.. Hamburg would be a more obvious choice, but Bremen is okay.
Münster.. 3 nights is a bit too much. You need half a day to explore the town, and maybe next day to see some of the water castles (is that an English term?) in the region.
Beware: Munster is a small town between Hanover and Hamburg. If you check rail connections or use GPS, make sure you use proper spelling "Muenster" if you can't type the "ü".
Paris.. I think either too many day trips or not enough days in Paris
Nimes.. I think I'd rather base myself in Aix or Avignon
Munich.. Hallstatt is near Salzburg. Day-trip from there and/or add another night to Salzburg.
Erfurt.. ditto what Ingo wrote. Or swap Erfurt for Dresden, and do a night in Quedlinburg or Wernigerode on your way from Berlin to Bremen
Bremen.. Hamburg would be a more obvious choice, but Bremen is okay.
Münster.. 3 nights is a bit too much. You need half a day to explore the town, and maybe next day to see some of the water castles (is that an English term?) in the region.
Beware: Munster is a small town between Hanover and Hamburg. If you check rail connections or use GPS, make sure you use proper spelling "Muenster" if you can't type the "ü".
Feb 21st, 2011, 03:07 AM
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I suggest you research Italy a bit more before making a final plan. If Bern is worth four days, Venice is definitely worth more than two. You seem to have looked into day-trip ideas in the north but not in Italy. Believe me, there are as many possibilities there as in the north.
Your interests seem to be largely cultural. 40% of UNESCO's World Heritage sites are in Italy.
Your interests seem to be largely cultural. 40% of UNESCO's World Heritage sites are in Italy.
Feb 21st, 2011, 05:02 AM
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In order of your trip:
Brugge/Gent: I suggest doing it the other way round, staying in Gent, which is the far more lively and pleasant city IMO, with a daytrip to small, pretty Brugge (which is kind of a Potemkin village and thus incredibly touristy by day and incredibly sleepy by night).
Paris: as Cowboy said, either too many daytrips or not enough days.
Tours: of course, it depends on how many chateaus you want to see, but for me, two days would be way too few.
Cinque Terre: 3 days seem many in turn, if you're not particularly into hiking.
Rome: 6 days could be ok for a first, very rough impression, but in this case, I'd skip the Pompei trip - alternatively, add one day. Rome is the most interesting city on this planet!
Venice: ditto what Zerlina said. Way too short in comparison with the time you're spending in Germany!!!
Munich: actually, for a German city, I like Munich - but 7 days, even with day trips? Seems much! And did you look on a map? If you do, you won't want to daytrip to Hallstatt and Passau from Munich if you're going to Salzburg, anyway!
Salzburg: add the necessary time for the Hallstatt and Passau trips. (What are you doing in Passau, btw?)
Frankfurt: I've never been, but close friends have... any particular reason to go there like being a banker and having a business date?
Metz: needs about 1.5 hours.
Strasbourg: is very beautiful, but tiny, and one day is definitely enough. Even with many daytrips, 9 days seem hard to justify if you assign merely 6 to Rome and 2 to Venice.
Lyon: cf. Metz.
Brugge/Gent: I suggest doing it the other way round, staying in Gent, which is the far more lively and pleasant city IMO, with a daytrip to small, pretty Brugge (which is kind of a Potemkin village and thus incredibly touristy by day and incredibly sleepy by night).
Paris: as Cowboy said, either too many daytrips or not enough days.
Tours: of course, it depends on how many chateaus you want to see, but for me, two days would be way too few.
Cinque Terre: 3 days seem many in turn, if you're not particularly into hiking.
Rome: 6 days could be ok for a first, very rough impression, but in this case, I'd skip the Pompei trip - alternatively, add one day. Rome is the most interesting city on this planet!
Venice: ditto what Zerlina said. Way too short in comparison with the time you're spending in Germany!!!
Munich: actually, for a German city, I like Munich - but 7 days, even with day trips? Seems much! And did you look on a map? If you do, you won't want to daytrip to Hallstatt and Passau from Munich if you're going to Salzburg, anyway!
Salzburg: add the necessary time for the Hallstatt and Passau trips. (What are you doing in Passau, btw?)
Frankfurt: I've never been, but close friends have... any particular reason to go there like being a banker and having a business date?
Metz: needs about 1.5 hours.
Strasbourg: is very beautiful, but tiny, and one day is definitely enough. Even with many daytrips, 9 days seem hard to justify if you assign merely 6 to Rome and 2 to Venice.
Lyon: cf. Metz.
Feb 21st, 2011, 07:24 AM
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Hi karli,
My very first thought upon reading your itinerary was, OK so this is mainly a Germany trip....
I would seriously spend more time researching. It was obvious you had'nt researched Italy at all, or you would have many more days there.
It seems you are young - and will be able to get a few more European trips in during your lifetime. Don't try to do it all on a first trip. You can if you want, but I wouldn't be surprised if once you are there, you toss your itinerary right out the window.
Have fun!
My very first thought upon reading your itinerary was, OK so this is mainly a Germany trip....
I would seriously spend more time researching. It was obvious you had'nt researched Italy at all, or you would have many more days there.
It seems you are young - and will be able to get a few more European trips in during your lifetime. Don't try to do it all on a first trip. You can if you want, but I wouldn't be surprised if once you are there, you toss your itinerary right out the window.
Have fun!
Feb 21st, 2011, 09:56 AM
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Wow - 3 months. I am so jealous 
Since you have so much time, I think I would go with more of a loose itinerary. I think Dayle is right on the money that with such a long trip and your first to Europe, once you get there, you may want to just toss the itinerary and go where it suits you based on what you find.
Maybe think about the trip in terms of a month for France and the Low Countries, a month for Germany and Switzerland, and a month for Italy - or something along those lines. Make a rough itinerary with the order of stops and make lodging reservations for some main stops (Amsterdam, Paris, Munich, etc) to give structure to the trip with unstructured time between these stops - so that you can spend a little or a lot of time in the different spots as makes sense.
Over 3 months, you will likely want some downtime somewhere, or you may find some other travellers that you really click with and want to spend some time with them, maybe absolutley fall in love with a place and want to spend more time or you hear about someplace really interesting that you never knew exisited. Who knows?
If it were my trip, I'd plan a week in the major cities - this will give you time to really see the cities, poke around and see more than just the highlights, and take some day trips.
Since you have so much time, I think I would go with more of a loose itinerary. I think Dayle is right on the money that with such a long trip and your first to Europe, once you get there, you may want to just toss the itinerary and go where it suits you based on what you find.
Maybe think about the trip in terms of a month for France and the Low Countries, a month for Germany and Switzerland, and a month for Italy - or something along those lines. Make a rough itinerary with the order of stops and make lodging reservations for some main stops (Amsterdam, Paris, Munich, etc) to give structure to the trip with unstructured time between these stops - so that you can spend a little or a lot of time in the different spots as makes sense.
Over 3 months, you will likely want some downtime somewhere, or you may find some other travellers that you really click with and want to spend some time with them, maybe absolutley fall in love with a place and want to spend more time or you hear about someplace really interesting that you never knew exisited. Who knows?
If it were my trip, I'd plan a week in the major cities - this will give you time to really see the cities, poke around and see more than just the highlights, and take some day trips.
Feb 21st, 2011, 01:14 PM
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Hi karli822,
We too took a similar trip 18 months ago. It was for 97 days. We stayed in 25 places and had week long apt rentals in 6 of the places. I really enjoyed this as it gave us somewhere to call home for more than a few days. Apts are also a nice change from the cooking aspect. You can shop locally and prepare some of your own meals.
I think you might have a bit of a tight schedule with regards to the day trips from some of the cities. You will burn out really quickly when you do nothing but sight see every single day. Trust me, you will definitely want a day here and there to do laundry and just veg out. You will need a little 'mini vacation' from your vacation.
I'm very excited for you, as we thoroughly loved our trip. What are your transportation options? Do you plan to get a lease car or are you doing the train? We did a lease car on the continent for two of the three months and it worked out great. Happy planning.
Michele
We too took a similar trip 18 months ago. It was for 97 days. We stayed in 25 places and had week long apt rentals in 6 of the places. I really enjoyed this as it gave us somewhere to call home for more than a few days. Apts are also a nice change from the cooking aspect. You can shop locally and prepare some of your own meals.
I think you might have a bit of a tight schedule with regards to the day trips from some of the cities. You will burn out really quickly when you do nothing but sight see every single day. Trust me, you will definitely want a day here and there to do laundry and just veg out. You will need a little 'mini vacation' from your vacation.
I'm very excited for you, as we thoroughly loved our trip. What are your transportation options? Do you plan to get a lease car or are you doing the train? We did a lease car on the continent for two of the three months and it worked out great. Happy planning.
Michele
Feb 21st, 2011, 04:39 PM
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Some quick feedback - and not commenting on routing ( I ampresuming this isn't the definite order you want to travel in).
If I had to cut some, I would cut Erfurt (as an overnight) Munster, Bern, and Metz
Amsterdam: 3.5 days (city I will fly into, so the first day will be jet-leggy) GOOD
Bruges: 3 days (day trip to Ghent?) GOOD - do Ghent on way to Brussels for trip to Paris
Paris: 5.5 days (day trips to Giverny, Versailles, Chartres) MORE REQUIRED
Tours: 2 days (see chateaus) GOOD
Nimes:4 days (day trips to Arles, Aix-en-Provence, Lourmarin) GOOD
Florence: 5 days GOOD
Cinque Terre: 3 days 2 DAYS MAYBE unless you really like walking
Rome: 6 days (day trip to Pompeii) GOOD
Venice: 2 days MORE REQUIRED
Munich: 7 days (day trips to Innsbruck, Mittenwald, Hallstatt, Passau) ONE LESS MAYBE and you can't do Hallstatt from Munich - try Salzburg
Salzburg: 2 days GOOD - add one day and no Hallstatt
Nuremburg: 3 days (day trips to Regensburg, Bamberg) GOOD
Erfurt: 2.5 days (day trips to Quedlinburg, Wernigeode) Wernigerode and Quedlinburg are highly improbable day trips from Erfurt. Consider Quedlinburg a stop with A Wernigerode/Goslar day trip
Berlin: 4.5 days MORE REQUIRED
Bremen: 1.5 days MEHHH - Lubeck insteadd
Munster: 3 days 2 DAYS
Frankfurt: 4.5 days (day trip to Bad Kreuznach) 3 DAYS
Metz: 2 days GOOD
Strasbourg: 9 days (day trips to Colmar, Schiltach, Tubingen, Freiburg) 6 DAYS and you aint' likely to reach Tubingen in a day trip
Lucerne: 3 days 2 DAYS
Interlaken: 4 days 3 DAYS
Bern: 4 days 2 DAYS
Lyon: 3 days (day trip to Annecy) GOOD
If I had to cut some, I would cut Erfurt (as an overnight) Munster, Bern, and Metz
Amsterdam: 3.5 days (city I will fly into, so the first day will be jet-leggy) GOOD
Bruges: 3 days (day trip to Ghent?) GOOD - do Ghent on way to Brussels for trip to Paris
Paris: 5.5 days (day trips to Giverny, Versailles, Chartres) MORE REQUIRED
Tours: 2 days (see chateaus) GOOD
Nimes:4 days (day trips to Arles, Aix-en-Provence, Lourmarin) GOOD
Florence: 5 days GOOD
Cinque Terre: 3 days 2 DAYS MAYBE unless you really like walking
Rome: 6 days (day trip to Pompeii) GOOD
Venice: 2 days MORE REQUIRED
Munich: 7 days (day trips to Innsbruck, Mittenwald, Hallstatt, Passau) ONE LESS MAYBE and you can't do Hallstatt from Munich - try Salzburg
Salzburg: 2 days GOOD - add one day and no Hallstatt
Nuremburg: 3 days (day trips to Regensburg, Bamberg) GOOD
Erfurt: 2.5 days (day trips to Quedlinburg, Wernigeode) Wernigerode and Quedlinburg are highly improbable day trips from Erfurt. Consider Quedlinburg a stop with A Wernigerode/Goslar day trip
Berlin: 4.5 days MORE REQUIRED
Bremen: 1.5 days MEHHH - Lubeck insteadd
Munster: 3 days 2 DAYS
Frankfurt: 4.5 days (day trip to Bad Kreuznach) 3 DAYS
Metz: 2 days GOOD
Strasbourg: 9 days (day trips to Colmar, Schiltach, Tubingen, Freiburg) 6 DAYS and you aint' likely to reach Tubingen in a day trip
Lucerne: 3 days 2 DAYS
Interlaken: 4 days 3 DAYS
Bern: 4 days 2 DAYS
Lyon: 3 days (day trip to Annecy) GOOD
Feb 21st, 2011, 08:14 PM
#13
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WOW thank you guys very much! I forgot to say what I'm interested in... mostly the "culture" experience, or as close as you can get as a whirlwind traveler! Looking mostly to chill in Europe and see the sights. My itinerary is German-heavy, which I really didn't plan on before looking into Germany! There are so many interesting and pretty places there. When I look more into Italy I will probably have to cut a lot of Germany out. Especially since I'm going in the spring, it may be better to go Italy heavy rather than Germany heavy.
Ingo: I'll have to think about Erfurt, might cut it all together. Thanks for your opinions about Switzerland, I will definitely look into that.
Cowboy: Paris... yes will definitely add some days there. Aix and Avignon look much more interesting for sure, I just didn't think there would be that many options for places to stay. Bremen looked interesting, but might swap for Hamburg or Lubeck.
Zerlina: Thanks I definitely am going to look more into Italy. Will probably end up spending a lot more time there rather than in northern Europe because the weather will be warmer that time of year.
franco: Looking into places to stay at Gent. Cinque Terre seems like a nice place to relax for a bit and take some photos, so that's why I chose 3 days. However once I look into Italy more, I might find a cheaper place to spend a couple extra days relaxing. I am very excited for Rome! Mostly because of my Art History class, haha. I will probably add more days there. No specific plans for Passau yet, I just heard it's a place I should visit! Might get pruned from this trip though. Frankfurt may get cut as well. Metz - ok I'll make this an afternoon stop or else cut it as well! Will take some days from Strasbourg.
michele_d: Yes, I am definitely going to have to edit this trip lots before it is actually doable! I was thinking that in some places where I'd be staying a bit longer (Paris, Rome...) an apt would be a nice change from hostels. Do you know of any websites where I could get more information about this?
Aramis: Is Brussels worth any time? I've heard it's kind of drag unless you are into government and stuff... Ok, Google images has convinced me that Lubeck is a better option! Haha.
I'm going to make some changes and post an edited itinerary. Thanks again for all your help, it is much appreciated.
Ingo: I'll have to think about Erfurt, might cut it all together. Thanks for your opinions about Switzerland, I will definitely look into that.
Cowboy: Paris... yes will definitely add some days there. Aix and Avignon look much more interesting for sure, I just didn't think there would be that many options for places to stay. Bremen looked interesting, but might swap for Hamburg or Lubeck.
Zerlina: Thanks I definitely am going to look more into Italy. Will probably end up spending a lot more time there rather than in northern Europe because the weather will be warmer that time of year.
franco: Looking into places to stay at Gent. Cinque Terre seems like a nice place to relax for a bit and take some photos, so that's why I chose 3 days. However once I look into Italy more, I might find a cheaper place to spend a couple extra days relaxing. I am very excited for Rome! Mostly because of my Art History class, haha. I will probably add more days there. No specific plans for Passau yet, I just heard it's a place I should visit! Might get pruned from this trip though. Frankfurt may get cut as well. Metz - ok I'll make this an afternoon stop or else cut it as well! Will take some days from Strasbourg.
michele_d: Yes, I am definitely going to have to edit this trip lots before it is actually doable! I was thinking that in some places where I'd be staying a bit longer (Paris, Rome...) an apt would be a nice change from hostels. Do you know of any websites where I could get more information about this?
Aramis: Is Brussels worth any time? I've heard it's kind of drag unless you are into government and stuff... Ok, Google images has convinced me that Lubeck is a better option! Haha.
I'm going to make some changes and post an edited itinerary. Thanks again for all your help, it is much appreciated.
Feb 22nd, 2011, 10:37 AM
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We liked Brussels a lot - didn't find it government-heavy at all as we didn't really go into the real business areas. We mostly hung around the old town: saw the Grand Place, went to the comic book museum, did a self-guided tour to see the comic murals on various walls, checked out the Art Nouveau architecture, went out to the Automium and the neighboring park, happened upon a street festival, etc.
We found Brussels to be a friendly city with pretty good food, and great beer. On Friday and Saturday we found lots of live music at various bars in the old town area.
We found Brussels to be a friendly city with pretty good food, and great beer. On Friday and Saturday we found lots of live music at various bars in the old town area.
Feb 22nd, 2011, 03:36 PM
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november_moon: Really? You are one of the few people who actually suggest going to Brussels. The only reason I would go would be for the architecture, and I'll probably get enough architecture on this trip!
Aramis: Oh, don't worry, I won't totally cut out Germany! I will probably just reduce the time spent there. We'll see what Italy has to offer first though!
Aramis: Oh, don't worry, I won't totally cut out Germany! I will probably just reduce the time spent there. We'll see what Italy has to offer first though!
Feb 22nd, 2011, 04:02 PM
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How do you plan to travel? If by car, a lease might be advantageous. Check out http://www.renaultusa.com/ and http://www.autoeurope.com/buyback_home.cfm .
If you wish to reduce cost, it might be better to land in France and depart from France. To pick up a lease car in a foreign country will cost $150 and up depending on the location, and the same applies for dropping the car off in a foreign location. It simply means that you would have to re-organize the circle route that you have currently imagined.
If you wish to reduce cost, it might be better to land in France and depart from France. To pick up a lease car in a foreign country will cost $150 and up depending on the location, and the same applies for dropping the car off in a foreign location. It simply means that you would have to re-organize the circle route that you have currently imagined.
Feb 22nd, 2011, 05:22 PM
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Michael: Mostly planning on using the train (driving in foreign cities is a little intimidating), but may rent a car for part of France or Germany. It would probably only be for a couple days, so I would still return within the same country. Thanks for the websites though, I will check them out.
Feb 22nd, 2011, 06:10 PM
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If you use the search engine on Fodors you can enter 'Paris apt' or 'Rome apt' as an example and you will get lots of recommendations for apts and sites.
http://www.parisbestlodge.com is a site that is highly recommended. We highly recommend them also.
http://www.parisbestlodge.com is a site that is highly recommended. We highly recommend them also.
