How is it that some people don't understand that churches are actual places of worship, not just tourist sights?
Mar 16th, 2006, 04:53 AM
#61
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Here's a rather bizarre, but related, incident...
When I visited Stonehenge last summer, I went on a supervised dusk tour, where you apply ahead of time and can go among the stones. My husband and I were part of this, as well as a group of wiccans, who planned to perform a ceremony.
I am wiccan myself, but not very practicing. When the group leader arrived, I asked him if it was alright if we took some photos of the stones and their group, promising to be quiet and not disrupt their ceremony. They were more than happy to let me. Technically, we had every right to be there as they did, but I considered it respectful to ask permission.
My camera was set on no flash, and my husband and I stayed around the edges, being unobtrusive throughout. Their ceremony was solemn and very beautiful, and we all co-existed nicely.
This is another example how the setting is owned by the government, but the religious ceremony needed respect. All it takes is a little courtesy, folks!!
When I visited Stonehenge last summer, I went on a supervised dusk tour, where you apply ahead of time and can go among the stones. My husband and I were part of this, as well as a group of wiccans, who planned to perform a ceremony.
I am wiccan myself, but not very practicing. When the group leader arrived, I asked him if it was alright if we took some photos of the stones and their group, promising to be quiet and not disrupt their ceremony. They were more than happy to let me. Technically, we had every right to be there as they did, but I considered it respectful to ask permission.
My camera was set on no flash, and my husband and I stayed around the edges, being unobtrusive throughout. Their ceremony was solemn and very beautiful, and we all co-existed nicely.
This is another example how the setting is owned by the government, but the religious ceremony needed respect. All it takes is a little courtesy, folks!!
Mar 16th, 2006, 05:46 AM
#62
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PS, here was one of my better shots, manipulated a bit (different sunset to add an ethereal quality).
http://www.greendragonartist.com/Sal...Supplicant.htm
This is a guy, not a girl, btw
http://www.greendragonartist.com/Sal...Supplicant.htm
This is a guy, not a girl, btw
Mar 16th, 2006, 06:08 AM
#63
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As a practicing Catholic, I'm quite amazed at how entitled people feel to see whatever they want to see, without taking into consideration what those sights mean to others. Many attempts at justifying disrespectful behavior are actually quite funny, and sometimes downright pathetic.
Interestingly, most of the pictures that people take at Notre Dame probably don't even turn out. It's a dark place.
Interestingly, most of the pictures that people take at Notre Dame probably don't even turn out. It's a dark place.
Mar 16th, 2006, 06:43 AM
#64
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Somehow I'm reminded of an old short story by John Wyndham, "Pawley's Peepholes". A small village in the present day is surprised to find strangers materialising out of nowhere on their front doorsteps, peering in their windows, laughing at these primitive people and their customs and clothes, and generally makings a nuisance of themselves: they are of course tourists from some future time. In the end the only way to get rid of them turns out to be - to turn the tables, and invite people to come and look and laugh at them...
Mar 16th, 2006, 06:57 AM
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The addition to Notre Dame that irks me is what MUST be its 20th century altar. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) That unadorned monolith reminiscent of soviet apartment blocks is a blight on the place, in my opinion.
Mar 16th, 2006, 07:47 AM
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A lot of people forget to pack their manners and common sense when they travel. An even larger number never had any to pack in the first place.
It's a sad commentary on society that many people don't know or care enough to monitor their own behavior, in churches, museums, wherever, but the institutions are partly responsible for allowing the bad behavior to happen.
For example, the guards at the Accademia in Florence routinely ignore people taking photos of David, despite the signs prohibiting photos. OTOH, I once saw a guard at the Sistine Chapel, without saying a word or even looking at her, pull a camera out of a woman's hand for taking a photo. I assume she got it back at the end of her visit.
Outside San Marco in Venice signs are posted stating that only worshipers are allowed in during services. The policy is enforced, and it works. Other churches in Italy, Siena comes to mind, are absolute zoos.
So both sides are at fault - the churches, museums etc., for not demanding respect and accepting the lack of it, and the bozos who don't know any better or who don't care just because they're in a foreign country.
It's kinda like the outrageous behavior discussed on another thread.
It's a sad commentary on society that many people don't know or care enough to monitor their own behavior, in churches, museums, wherever, but the institutions are partly responsible for allowing the bad behavior to happen.
For example, the guards at the Accademia in Florence routinely ignore people taking photos of David, despite the signs prohibiting photos. OTOH, I once saw a guard at the Sistine Chapel, without saying a word or even looking at her, pull a camera out of a woman's hand for taking a photo. I assume she got it back at the end of her visit.
Outside San Marco in Venice signs are posted stating that only worshipers are allowed in during services. The policy is enforced, and it works. Other churches in Italy, Siena comes to mind, are absolute zoos.
So both sides are at fault - the churches, museums etc., for not demanding respect and accepting the lack of it, and the bozos who don't know any better or who don't care just because they're in a foreign country.
It's kinda like the outrageous behavior discussed on another thread.
Mar 16th, 2006, 07:59 AM
#69
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I can understand the confusion many Americans have with religious edifices. After all, for many sports is the true religion. We even build these huge arenas with tax dollars so the team owners can reap huge rewards. I just wonder why if they are built with my tax dollars I don't get in free.
Mar 16th, 2006, 08:02 AM
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Guy18, the current altar at Notre Dame is indeed brand new. It was installed during a recent "renovation." That's why it looks so ugly and out of place. The original stuff is still there, but it is not used; the new eyesore is in front of it.
Pictures taken at Notre-Dame will turn out if the camera is held very still (braced against something) and a time exposure is used. Pictures of the stained glass will turn out even if the camera is handheld, since the light coming through them is essentially just filtered daylight.
As for the statue of Viollet le Duc, it's the statue of Saint Thomas, the highest green statue at the base of the spire on the southeast side of the cathedral. It's the statue holding that is looking up towards the spire, shading its eyes, and appears to be holding a ruler or staff of sorts.
Pictures taken at Notre-Dame will turn out if the camera is held very still (braced against something) and a time exposure is used. Pictures of the stained glass will turn out even if the camera is handheld, since the light coming through them is essentially just filtered daylight.
As for the statue of Viollet le Duc, it's the statue of Saint Thomas, the highest green statue at the base of the spire on the southeast side of the cathedral. It's the statue holding that is looking up towards the spire, shading its eyes, and appears to be holding a ruler or staff of sorts.
Mar 16th, 2006, 08:52 AM
#71
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AnthonyGA, thanks for the directions to find that statue. I've read about it several times, but didn't have any information on its location the last time I was there.
And more importantly, thanks for the clarification on the more recent altar. I hadn't realized that the 19th-century one had been replaced.
Anselm
And more importantly, thanks for the clarification on the more recent altar. I hadn't realized that the 19th-century one had been replaced.
Anselm
