Hey IndyTravel,

I agree. I have stopped sending the post cards many trips ago.

It seems to me that the money that you spent on post cards would go a long way for Tat's mid afternoon meal by buying bread and cold cuts from a grocer.

I've never been to France, but I do know that most hotels serve up a big breakfast. By eating well for breakfast and then taking $5 or $6 to a small grocery store to buy what you need for a picnic lunch, you can definitely save big money and keep your budget for food to a minimum.

Just the money you save on postcards and other souvenirs is sometimes enough to go out a couple of times to splurge and enjoy a nice evening meal in a little better restaurant.

Travelling doesn't need to be expensive. There are plenty of us out there that do just fine while in Europe and don't break the bank to get it done.

Merry X-Mas

Hi winnepeg, you've got my kind of idea about loading up at breakfast. This has worked really well for me in Germany, the UK and Scandinavia. Though I would never stoop as low as Rick Steves and pack my lunch from the breakfast buffet.

I think France is one of the biggest rip-offs for breakfast. Most of the hotels I've stayed in charge extra for breakfast. It's just an espresso, a small glass of orange juice and breads with jam and butter. They usually charge anywhere from 5 to 9 euro on up for this. I don't drink coffee so I think it's even more of a waste. I take my 2.5 euro, head down to the local bakery and get a warm pain-au-chocolat with an OJ.

Message: Tat, can we bury the hatchet and start fresh? It is Christmas, you know.

I thought you were a troll, but am willing now to take you as a sincere poster.

Please excuse the many nasty zingers I sent your way; to include the 1-800 number to the mental health facility. But I think even you had to laugh when you called it and found out it was not fodor's!

Anyway, best of luck to you in your future travels. I'm sure you will learn alot in 2004.

Noir,
even if I was a troll - who ever gave you rights to treat people you don't know the way you did ?.. Unless you are 18... or you don't know any better...or ugly beyound believes :)

O, well, I am not going to give you a hug, but Happy Holidays and behave.

As Winnepeg said "Forget about alot that is written in this forum". Forget about what he says! How dare anyone assume that because they can't travel for a certain amount of money that if someone else says they can that they must be lying. Winnepeg goes into a long discussion about how this poster who claims to make 55K and still go to Europe 3 times a year must have some other source of money or else be lying. As far as I can tell she was just trying to be helpful and answer the orginial question of how "average" people can afford to travel.

It is perfectly reasonable to assume she took a go-today package to say London for $399 in March, which with food and incidentals could mean the two of them only spent about $1200. Say she did another similar trip in November to Paris for another $1200. Then say she went to Ireland in July. Airfare Boston to Ireland in high season was $600 last summer. Car rental for a week $300. Plenty of decent B&Bs for $50 a night. Add another $300 or 400 for food and gas and that trip would be about $2200. Using these modest figures she could easily do three trips to Europe, for a week each, for under $5000 for herself and her daughter - without staying with relatives. It certainly seems that if she's a frugal person who uses even some of the saving techniques outlined in this now very long thread, she could afford to spend $5000 of her $55,000 on travel. WITHOUT having "old money" or a husband who left her lots of money!

I'd prefer to not be as nasty as Winnepeg, but it sounds to me like he's a rather wealthy snob who just can't imagine anyone enjoying travel without spending gobs of money on 4 or 5 star hotels and fancy restaurant meals. Either that or he can't imagine a single woman making it on her own and budgeting her money wisely enough to allow her to take herself and her daughter to Europe frequently. For the record I have no idea who ccarroga is. It just struck me as unfair to trash what seemed like an honest (and reasonable) post.

Or she could be working for an airlines and getting a lot of "free" air travel - just a thought :)

isabel, very well said. I was thinking the very same things.

isabel,
I do read and appreciate every post and I am not a wealthy snob, but traveling 3 times per year striked me as a bullet.
As I said I am very comfortable but with travel "disability". I am most comfortable at home, but I just realized I have to show my kid a world.
I want her to remember traveling with parents. Plus I have friends all over the world.
I can NOT imagine having 14 y/old with me and NOT to shop. It is a fantasy. I can not imagine just walk around and stare and not picking souvenirs for my friends. I like funny ones.
Even as you said spending $5000.00 per year you have to save $500 a month, which is 1/3 of your salary of $55000.00
Girls would have to walk naked and live in shelter in xchange for traveling.
I don't think so or I am so very wrong.
It is good debate subject if you into debates today.

:)

Hey Tat,

I see you are back and you are also feeling the wrath of some of these Fodorites that have taken offense to what I wrote about the woman travelling to Europe with a 14 y/o, three times a year and still manages to live in Boston on $55,000 a year.

I apologize for opening up that can of worms. I must admit that the woman who travels is much better at planning her finances than most everyone I know.

To live in Boston, in this day and age on a $55,000 a year salary, supporting a 14 y/o, pay all of the expenses and taxes and still go to Europe 3x's every year is just too hard to imagine.

Keep the faith Tat. It won't be long before you are in Paris enjoying yourselves.

Happy New Year.

Mark

& I'm still waiting to hear about how Patrick does it...Or just maybe he doesn't.

I'm w/you Winnepeg, some of the stories just don't make sense or, we're not getting the whole story.

I recently met a woman at my child's school. She has FOUR kids ages 17, 15, 9 & 6. They own a tiny flat in Ireland and travel all over Europe twice a year! They all fly into Ireland and rent a car. I asked her how they did it and this is what she told me. The older kids always bring sleeping bags. When they check into a hotel they check in as three people while the other three kids wait "around the corner". Once they are all checked in they go for lunch and casually two by two go up to the room. She said that travelling like this is a bit cramped, but if they did not do hotels this way, then her kids would never get to see the world. She also had some tight tips on eating out.

Why is Patrick being put under a spotlight? What has he said that you take issue with?

Degas - Read Patrick's prior post & my inquiry on 12/19. It just doesn't add up. So, do we not have the full story or do we have someone busily trying to impress...???

Interestingly he is on here right now reading these posts but not responding so it appears. Speak up Patrick...

I saw the post about the two business class tickets (160,000 FF miles?) by using an airline-liked credit card. I assumed it took around two years or so if he was real aggressive in searching out mile opportunities. If he did it in one year, then my hats off to him.

Most of our European travels are made on free tickets we earn through frequent flyer miles. We have one single credit card (United Mileage Plus)for ALL our personal expenses, including groceries and other mundane things. These miles add up quickly. My husband has a similar card for his business and we pay as many business expenses on it as possible. Last year, after he and I booked free tix to Italy on United/Lufthansa, I purchased one for my son at a discounted price through a consolidator who always seems to have good deals. Then, I do lots of research on hotels for price/value/quality, and, although I'm sure we're in the minority, WE DO NO REAL SHOPPING ON OUR TRIP. I prefer to spend the money on the hotel, sights, meals and wine, which creates the experience and lasting memory for me.

We all have different incomes and different travel preferences, but it seems we all share the love of travel. Unless you're independently wealthy, it seems clear the you set goals, prioritize and save money.

There was a fascinating thread on this topic some time ago. I'll try post the link:

http://fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2

There are some interesting anecdotes on the sacrifices people make, in their daily lives, in order to travel.

I'm a single, live alone, never been married (so no sugar daddy to leave me money) and certainly didn't come from money (as a matter of fact, sometimes I have to send money home). I live in Chicago and make $55,000. Grant it, I don't have children, but I also went to Italy three times last year. I do this by having no credit card debt, not shopping at the mall every weekend and not owning a car (my BIGGEST money saver). I take public transportation everywhere (as the woman in Boston might). Was it easy to save the money? No. But it wasn't difficult either. I certainly don't totally deprive myself. It's just a matter of priorities. I also am flexible enough to wait for good airfares, and I am certainly not staying in $200/night places. Nor am I staying in youth hostels. By doing research, I've stayed in very decent, clean central lodging. Also for the financial guy, I am saving very well for my retirement. Why all the suspicion? It can be done, and I'm certainly not the only one out there doing this. By the way, the last time I checked, I wasn't walking around a shelter naked in order to travel.

Not that Patrick cannot speak for himself, if he even wished to or felt he had to, but I remember over the months/years of posting and reading here, that Patrick is retired. He stays in apts in London and Paris.
But for all you/we know, he is a trust fund baby and can do whatever he wishes. What business is it of anyones?