How do you pronounce "Leicester" as in Leicester Square, from the song "long way to Tipperary" ?????
Aug 11th, 2010, 08:45 AM
#101
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In the Elephant and Castle nowadays there is this statue:
http://srv-londonimages-1.londontown...44_429long.jpg
But hurry - it's being knocked down soon.....
http://srv-londonimages-1.londontown...44_429long.jpg
But hurry - it's being knocked down soon.....
Aug 11th, 2010, 09:21 AM
#102
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>>Tsk Tsk
"...James and I were trying to interest..."<<
Fairynuff. I did chuckle a bit - but I dare you to try that on with the stuffier sort of ScotNat, once they've finished telling the US Senate to depart to whence they came.
"...James and I were trying to interest..."<<
Fairynuff. I did chuckle a bit - but I dare you to try that on with the stuffier sort of ScotNat, once they've finished telling the US Senate to depart to whence they came.
Aug 13th, 2010, 07:23 PM
#103
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THe key is thr USAGE - you need to look back at writings of the time etc.
everyone is familiar with the concept of an elephant and Castle - it's in chess and war etc etc.......the use for that area I contend is a deliberate misuse of the expression by the locals because of the presence of the "Infanta".
"Charring Cross whilst not so humorous is another example of mispronunciation of a "foreign" phrase.
English is a very informal, organic language and the way that words come in and out of use can be surprisingly informal.
In Warwick for a short while the leading philately company "Warwick & Warwick"set up their HQ in the high street - their address was therefore Warwick & Warwick in Warwick High st, Warwick - a case of the company following the destination.
They actually didn't last long there - which just goes to show that "philately will get you nowhere"
everyone is familiar with the concept of an elephant and Castle - it's in chess and war etc etc.......the use for that area I contend is a deliberate misuse of the expression by the locals because of the presence of the "Infanta".
"Charring Cross whilst not so humorous is another example of mispronunciation of a "foreign" phrase.
English is a very informal, organic language and the way that words come in and out of use can be surprisingly informal.
In Warwick for a short while the leading philately company "Warwick & Warwick"set up their HQ in the high street - their address was therefore Warwick & Warwick in Warwick High st, Warwick - a case of the company following the destination.
They actually didn't last long there - which just goes to show that "philately will get you nowhere"
Aug 14th, 2010, 12:08 AM
#104
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>>the use for that area I contend is a deliberate misuse of the expression by the locals because of the presence of the "Infanta".<<
Except that the history of the <i>usage</i> doesn't have any particular relatonship to the Infanta. Earliest instances relate to a public house called the "Elephant and Castle" in the mid-eighteenth century, about 150 years after the very temporary visit of the King of Spain's daughter.
>>Charring Cross whilst not so humorous is another example of mispronunciation of a "foreign" phrase.<<
Eh? "Charing" as a placename occurs in several places, and is usually thought to derive from an Old English word for a bend in a river.
Except that the history of the <i>usage</i> doesn't have any particular relatonship to the Infanta. Earliest instances relate to a public house called the "Elephant and Castle" in the mid-eighteenth century, about 150 years after the very temporary visit of the King of Spain's daughter.
>>Charring Cross whilst not so humorous is another example of mispronunciation of a "foreign" phrase.<<
Eh? "Charing" as a placename occurs in several places, and is usually thought to derive from an Old English word for a bend in a river.
Aug 31st, 2010, 07:40 PM
#113
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It occurs i several places because it was a chain of memorials erected up and down the country in memory of "My dear queen" "Chere reine" - local French of the monarchy at the time.
IO still think that although the pub/inn and expression predate, that the name comes from the vernacular usage.
Finding something "earlier" doesn't necessarily indicate the commencement of usage and I'm not even sure your dates are right - however I'm buggered if I'm going to chase that up. I did so about 25 years ago whilst living in London. i know thinking can change but unless you have a quick reference I think I'm going to let that one lie.
IO still think that although the pub/inn and expression predate, that the name comes from the vernacular usage.
Finding something "earlier" doesn't necessarily indicate the commencement of usage and I'm not even sure your dates are right - however I'm buggered if I'm going to chase that up. I did so about 25 years ago whilst living in London. i know thinking can change but unless you have a quick reference I think I'm going to let that one lie.
Sep 1st, 2010, 01:31 AM
#115
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>>It occurs i several places because it was a chain of memorials erected up and down the country in memory of "My dear queen" "Chere reine" - local French of the monarchy at the time.<<
But then they'd all be called Charing Cross, and they're not. And Charing occurs as a placename without any relation to crosses or queens.
As for the Elephant and Castle, yes, it's easy to see how it could have been derived as a corruption of Castile. But there is no evidence that "Infanta of Castile" was ever used as a place or pub name. On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence of "Elephant and Castle" pubs deriving from the Cutler's Company arms.
But then they'd all be called Charing Cross, and they're not. And Charing occurs as a placename without any relation to crosses or queens.
As for the Elephant and Castle, yes, it's easy to see how it could have been derived as a corruption of Castile. But there is no evidence that "Infanta of Castile" was ever used as a place or pub name. On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence of "Elephant and Castle" pubs deriving from the Cutler's Company arms.
