immimi

I think the answer to this dilemma is to close your eyes and
think of England or since you are in England perhaps Italy.

Nona1 - we're on the same page (but it's not a holy book).

annhig

nicely put, nona.

I've not faced that dilemma, but I can see how uncomfortable it would have made you.

immimi - nice idea. I'll try it next time!

justineparis

I guess I have been lucky, I have never been in a home where Grace was said that I was asked to say it, or that it seemed to be more then it was, a short prayer of thanks for the food and friends gathering.. I certainly would not consider anyone giving pointed judgemental looks Christian anyways.

nukesafe

Nona, thank you for that thoughtful contribution. It exactly describes the reasons for the discomfort I feel when I suddenly realize a blessing is going to be said before a meal.

Your experiences closely follow my own, with the one exception of a dinner in which the host simply would not let the matter go. He insisted that I join the hand holding circle and lead the table in prayer. When I politely explained why I would have to decline, I was not so politely asked to leave the home. I felt like the little flower girl being cast out into the blizzard.

I should hope that none of our European visitors would ever be subjected to such an extreme situation, and I asked my original question to see how they viewed the practice, which to many of them must appear very strange, indeed.

nona1

I've never seen the hand holding thing,but it wouldn't bother me, although I wouldn't want to join in, which would cause a problem with people next to me having to stretch across me I suppose. Their problem.

What I have found quite funny sometimes is just after grace starts, there's sometimes one family member who must feel the same way but obliged to go through the motions. Nearly always someone's eyes pop open after the few words and they start looking round, with a bored/exasperated look on their face. Then they see me looking at them...and look embarrassed. One did roll their eyes at me once. 'Aha'!' I think. The secret atheist. It's a shame people feel under pressure to fake something like this. It's usually a younger member of the family.

Lawchick

We are and Irish/Austrian Catholic couple living in Belgium. We say grace before meals with the children every evening or with our immediate family on special family occasions. There is no handholding and normally it is a short one or two liner. We would never dream of inflicting it on guests. either.

Yes I have been in American homes where there has been grace. I did find it a bit strange and OTT and often quite long. I was asked once to say grace and said it in Irish (Gaelic).

annhig

When I politely explained why I would have to decline, I was not so politely asked to leave the home. I felt like the little flower girl being cast out into the blizzard.>>

I'm tempted to suggest that that doesn't seem like a very Christian thing to do, but I'll resist.

thursdaysd

nukesafe - what a horrid experience.

Two excellent questions:

G_Hopper: "People keep asking here what the big deal is about bearing a 15 second grace. Conversely, I would ask you what's the big deal about forgoing that 15 second grace if you don't know the religious orientation of your guests?"

annhig: "People who get that upset at hearing someone say a short prayer before a meal should JUST STAY HOME.>>
but if I don't know you're going to say it, Holly, how will i know to stay at home? "

still await answers.

Holly_uncasdewar

I thought you'd have figured it out by now, thursday, but obviously you need an explanation. Here it is. Simply decline all invitations unless you know for certain that grace will not be said before the meal. For good effect, lock your doors and hide under your bed from those awful Christians!

justineparis

Thursdays, I guess I tend to know the people whos homes I am invited to eat in.. dinner parties here are usually restricted to actual friends and relatives , not mere aquiantances ..

I tend to know a little bit about my friends. If they are hard sell bible thumpers I am pretty sure one would know before one went to their house, since hard sell bible thumpers would "preach" at you well before you got to the point in a friendship where a dinner invitation would be issued.

If I did not know my friends were Christians who liked to say Grace before dinner ,then I am going to assume they would not be freaking out and trying to all of a sudden pressure me.

I guess the solution is, don't go to the homes of people you don't know much about, wait till you know them a bit better, maybe have new friends over for coffee.. usually if someone is a very strident preacher it will emerge WELL before you are close enough to have them for dinner.

I find it hard to believe perfectly "normal" friends all of a sudden go all "christian psycho" on you when you sit down at their dinner table'( and you never noticed it before) . I think most christian friends that are hanging out with would likely just say a quick grace and say "pass the peas".. thats always been my experience.

Apparently some of you have eaten with people you don't know very well and have encountered some extreme behaviour.

annhig

I thought you'd have figured it out by now, thursday, but obviously you need an explanation. Here it is. Simply decline all invitations unless you know for certain that grace will not be said before the meal.>>

I'm not saying that I won't sit politely while my hosts say grace before a meal. I don't think that it would bother me at all. But I understand why others could feel discomforted by it - clearly Holly, you don't.

but while your being so kind as to answer some questions, perhaps you'll answer this for me - allowing that the Christian God is omnipotent, omipresent, and omni everything else, why is it necessary to say grace at all? doesn't S/He know what is in your hearts? would S/He very upset if when you had guests present, you just said grace silently to yourselves as you sat down?

justineparis

annhig, some christains do just say grace to themselves, but different customs are in each area /church/families etc.. so therefore its not just a religious ritual , it can be a custom.. and when in Rome....

LSky

annhig, you seem like you know what to do as a guest.

This prayer thing may be like finding a strawberry on my plate. I'm allergic to strawberries.

Instead of thinking that my host is trying to poison me, or being a horrible host because they didn't know or remember that I'm allergic to them, I quietly shove them to the side. There's no reason to call it to my host's attention or even come home and start a post about those "D@mn Strawberry Eaters!" It's life.

If I'm concerned, I should stay home but I like people. I'm not there for the food, I go for the company.

I would only say something if they asked why I wasn't eating the eggplant parmesian, since it would be a main course and hard to hide. (another allergy)

ElendilPickle

>>and none of you "grace-sayers" have answered my question - why do you say grace before meals, and not at other times? why not when you have a cup of tea, or a beer, or for that matter when you open the curtains in the morning? what about when you're out and about and, say, go into McDs? do you say it then?

kerouac

I really do not mind declining invitations when I am unsure of what might happen. Let's face it (and this will raise hackles), in the majority of American homes you are not going to miss a spectacular gastronomic meal if you are not there. All you are going to miss is a grilling along the lines of "how much is your electric bill?" "how much do you earn?" "don't you want to move to America?" "I couldn't go to the beaches there with the naked women" "do people really eat snails/horses/rabbits?" "do they have escalators in Europe?" "what's it like not to have freedom of the press?" "are the commies still a big problem?" et al.

In case you are wondering, I did not make up a single one of those questions.

If invited, I just claim severe jet lag or intestinal disruption.

LSky

kerouac, if I had to eat with people like that I'd rather stay home with a cold burger.

How in the world did you find them?

Ackislander

If you lack the religion gene, you won't get this, but grace, like the brief prayers Lee Ann so beautifully describes is a form of mindfulness, of being aware of where you are and of your relationship to the universe and, for some of us, its author.

It has perhaps a different form but not a different purpose than mindfulness in Zen, which is not a religion but a practice (god is not part of Zen)

Would those who object to grace before meat object to being mindful for a moment ? I don't know.

LJ

As a pastor (that's right a minister! thought not a priest per se) of a liberal mainstream church here in Canada, I would never dream of MAKING someone say "Grace" at my table.

We usually at dinner have a (VERY!) brief moment of blessing the food and the fishers, farmers and servers. We do not hole hands: that is an American custom that originated in the souther US in the 40's as I understand it.

I am a good cook and hope like heck that my guests will feel blessed by the combination of the good food and the ambiant peace and companionship.

But I am invited my guests to feed them, not convert them. And I would never feel offended if someone failed to join in...I would however, feel a bit put out if they made as much fuss about it as some of the folks in this thread.

gertie3751

Eyes down, mouth shut, wait until it's over.

PatrickLondon

>>Eyes down, mouth shut, wait until it's over.