How crazy is this plan?
 

Husband and I are planning a belated honeymoon, you may have seen my other posts. A European co-worker of mine has suggested instead of just doing Italy, that we explore other countries too, and I kind of wanted to do that anyways. We are both young, and active and love to explore and find some hidden gems wherever we go. We are in Europe for 13 days and below is what we are thinking....Please tell me if we're nuts. And just so we're all on the same page, we know that we aren't going to be able to see everything in each city and totally accept that. We currently live in Chicago and know that big cities are tough to really see everything unless you spend a considerable amount of time in each.

Venice, Italy- Land (via plane) at 10:30am Monday 9/21-Depart evening Weds 9/23
Barcelona, Spain- Arrive (via Plane)- evening, Weds 9/23, depart- afternoon Saturday 9/26
Vienna, Austria- Arrive (via plane)- afternoon, Sat 9/26, depart morning 9/29
Munich, Germany- arrive (Via train) mid-morning (meeting and staying with friends here! and celebrating Oktoberfest) depart morning 10/3 back to USA

This is our first European adventure, but we can't resist trying to see many places, since plane ticket within Europe are so cheap. Its $160 USD a person for us to fly Venice-Barcelona-Vienna and in the US its like $160 on the cheap end to fly to or from any major city.....

That's nearly too much hanging around airports.

How about scrapping Barcelona.

Investigate the drop off charges for car hire.

Fly direct to Venice them drive up to Munich via Vienna. Drop the car off in Munich fly back.

We have done this journey by car, takes in some of Europe's best scenery.

yeah, you can get some good fares within Europe, but it's really up to you. I think it's crazy but I just wouldn't want to fly all over and go to so many cities, I would just be too exhausted to do that and wouldn't enjoy my trip. Plus, I HATE flying and airport. Yeah, I often take one small budget flight withing Europe but not 2 within 13 days, yikes.

I"d cut out Barcelona as it's the farthest away, and add in those days elsewhere.

...and no matter what anyone posts here.

There's only every one person who should deduce the sanity of a plan.

The inter Europe flight might be cheap, but the accommodations might not cooperate. Be sure you have key ducks in row before hitting that non-refundable airline ticket. At minimum, look at the hotels to make sure there are several you can book at acceptable price when you buy the air or you have already secured hotel bookings that can be cancelled before proceeding with the air tickets.

In your case, Munich can be a certain sticker shocker. I presume you have not looked at the accommodation situation. Already the rooms on days you mentioned are fully booked up at popular places and what remain come with shocking price tags.

They're staying with friends in Munich.

The last thing I'd want to do is spend time in airports on 6 occasions in 13 days. At a minimum, I'd drop Barcelona and I'd even consider taking the train from Venice to Vienna. It's a long ride, but the scenery is nice and you could break up the journey with an overnight in Salzburg.

For me, the plan is too subject to weather-related problems that could delay or cancel flights. A
Also, I think I'd feel like a dishrag if I took a transatlantic flight from Chicago to Venice, and then just when I felt I'd shaken my jet lag I was back to dragging luggage back out the same way back to the airporit (it's not a zippy transfer unless you shell out big bucks).

If I very much wanted to meet up with my friends in Munich for Oktoberfest (which I confess I woud hate for a honeymoon) I would stay mainly in Italy and take advantage of the train that goes from Verona to Munich and skip the high cost of renting a car in one country and dropping it off in another.

Again, just speaking personally, I would never give up time in Italy for a honeymoon to spend it in Barcelona, Munich or Vienna, but if want you want is more nightlife, then italy is very low on that.

The Munich portion of our trip we have already figure will not be the honeymoon. I've had so many people tell us how wonderful Barcelona and Vienna are, that we thought of maybe trying to see them all. We are foodies so everyone suggests Barcelona to us. You all think cutting it would be the way to go though?

Only you know how much tolerance you have for airports, trekking to and fro, waiting on security lines, and airports that may be at the end of hell and gone (have you looked at the check-in times for the flights you will be taking?).

I would agree to leave Barcelona for a trip to Spain.

For a real foodie, why not go to Bologna? Some of the best food I had in Italy and it is close to Venice.

OK, so many people tell you how wonderful Barcelona and Vienna are.

Doesn't anybody tell you how wonderful Paris and Rome are, or Amsterdam and Prague and Florence/Tuscany and Provence, and Seville, and Greece and the Greek Islands, etc?

Personally, I would take Rome or Paris over Vienna or Barcelona in a skinny minute. I would take London or Provence over either one also. Have you read about and looked at Barcelona and Vienna for yourself? They are great, but Rome might be just as great for you. Some people dislike Venice, while for me it is the most romantic city in the world - it is always astonishing to me. So, do more reading and research yourself about places. Google some images of places. Then give yourself time to savor the one or two you pick.

It makes sense to look at places that are closer logistically that still give you the wow factor of being in Europe. You will go back! Why spend so much money on planes and airports when you could spend it eating fabulous food and spend more days actually seeing more things?

It is also one thing to race by stuff and get a look. It is another to take a bit more time to absorb a little of the culture and atmosphere of a place. Use time to make a memory of being in a place in Europe, not a memory of being in airports and in the air over Europe. Again, it is personal. Which do you honestly enjoy the most, grabbing coffee and gulping it down for the caffeine as you race to work, etc. or sitting down at a sidewalk cafe, feeling the breeze, and relaxing, chatting, noticing the sun and flowers nearby? Which one will you remember? Think of travel like that. Hopping around to "many" places is not the same as seeing/experiencing more.

I am less impressed with Barcelona as a food destination than I am with other parts of Spain. I would not go to Venice for food , and certainly not Munich and Vienna only for pastries -- but what really matters is how you define yourselves as foodies. I mainly eat fish, vegetables and pasta, so a "swoon" honeymoon for me is an Italian coast of Sicily. If you are big time on pastries or tapas or bread or meat, then you might want to head someplace else if being foodies together is sexy to you for your honeymoon!

All of the places you are considering are as wonderful as your friends tell you they are. The question is: Once you spend the time AND money to get to them (which includes getting from airports into cities and back again), will you have time to enjoy them and money left over to eat the great eats?

Sit down with your partner and prioritize the honeymoon YOU TWO want to take together. A madcap whirl of airports and glam lunches? Foodie first -- or sometheing else first? (Like beautiful old world ambience? World famous art and architecture? Do you want relaxation together? Or do you want to have crazy fun?

Just make a numbered list of what's Number One for you, what's #2, #3, and then see where you are. Maybe Barcelona will be your MUST DO (and who cares about Vienna, really?) Except for somebody else, the idea of 6 days of trying every pastry in Vienna and having a waltz would come in first hands down.

Hope that's clear. I wouldn't give up Barcelona because of what other people say. I'd give it up -- or keep it -- after talking it over with my spouse.

I live in Vienna, and have had incredible dining experiences in Munich, Venice, and Barcelona when on holiday. We are also a family who enjoys great food, and I can say that it's entirely possible to have a grand food experience in Vienna enjoying Austrian cuisine.

That said, Vienna will never make a Top Ten Foodie Destination" list, because Austrian cuisine doesn't jump out to a one-time visitor like the obvious tapas in Barcelona or pastas and seafood in Italy. Most visitors to Vienna don't go much beyond Schnitzel and Sacher Torte and are too quick to dismiss the city on its cuisine.

Should your final itinerary include Vienna, I would be happy to share our favorite Austrian dining locales with you.

Happy Planning!

I'd agree with everything so far, Barcelona sticks out like a sore thumb in your plan.

Compared with the other cities it isn't even that romantic, big vibrant city lots of energy but definitely not Venice.

Trains from Venice to Munich via Vienna would work well.

Sorry, but I would find your planned trip unpleasantly rushed. I don't mind moving around with greater frequency than many Fodorites, but only if it serves a purpose, and ONLY if I get to see / do / experience what I want to do en route.

I recommend that you get some good guidebooks (or spend some time with a few in your local library), identify the things you most want to see in each location, note their opening/closing times, and mark them on a calendar. Then pencil in your transportation, add some time on either side (for getting to/from the train/bus station or whatever, checking in/out, packing/unpacking, getting oriented, etc.). Then see how things fit together.

Good luck!

(And, of course, best wishes and congratulations! :-) )

Congrats on the wedding. You say "We are both young, and active " and you'll probably find that a bit of rushing around doesn't phase you as it might some of us older folks on Fodors.

Your plan is rushed but doable, go for it.

"you'll probably find that a bit of rushing around doesn't phase you as it might some of us older folks on Fodors. "

Jetlag has been a strange experience for me. Years ago, on my first big trip from the UK, we landed in Boston and I then drove to Cape Cod. I was so tired, I couldn't even fall out of the car to see beautiful South Beach, Chatham.

After years of sleepless child minding nights, now I get off a flight from Perth, Australia to Manchester and go straight into work.

fourfotravel,

I think your highly judgmental jumping-to-conclusions about what other people eat is really all about yoruself rather than other people or reality. During the many days I have spent in Vienna and Munich, I never ONCE ate schnitzel or Sacher Torte. Not once.

Everybody knows (I hope!) that if you like Austrian or German food you are going to have a great time eating in Austria and Germany. Why not? Since I much prefer other cuisines, I wouldn't go to those places for a "foodie" vacation. (Which is what I wrote.)

The issue is what do the traveling foodie couple like to eat? They shouldn't eliminate Barcelona if that is more to their tastes and they want a food focus for their honeymoon, and they are willing to make the effort to get there. But if they love Austrian and German cuisine, why bother going to Barcelona?

Hard to know what is important to them -- seeing a lot of places, seeing some places more than others. having a "foodie" destination one time or all the time. In the end, they might come up with a plan that looks "crazy" to other people but works for them (provided none of those flights are delayed or cancelled).

IMO, your original plan of just Italy is much better than this plan. The problem with this plan is that you don't have time to explore anywhere or find those "hidden gems." You'll be waiting for your next flight instead.

All of your feedback has been so insightful. I guess when I said foodie, I really meant it in the respect that we want to soak in local food seen no matter where we are and try to eat some of the best food we can get our hands on. I understand the food in Austria and German can be a bit heavy, but isn't that just part of the culture experience. I think we are hoping to hit the sights and tourist attractions as well as enjoy a nice meal and possible do a food tour, or pub crawl.

We have already booked our flights into Venice, and out of Munich, those are happening for sure.

Just looking into it a bit, it seems like the plane traveling times would be close to the train traveling times if we were to stay in Italy, or am I missing something? It looks like about 2 hours to barcelona and 2.5 hours to Vienna. These look like similar travel times for trains to florence and Rome, or am I missing something?

You are not nuts. It is more rushed than people who have made other trips will do, but it is fine for a first trip. Just make sure that you know why you are going to each place. While you won't find any true 'hidden gems', you probably will find plenty of 'non travel book mentioned gems'

What comparing times for the flights you have to be at the airport about an hour before flight time, only ten minutes perhaps for trains. If you are really lucky, and there is no traffic, it can be a little less than half an hour from the airport into Barcelona, but with traffic, which is more likely, it can take 45-55 minutes. Often it take ten minutes or so just to get off the plane and into the terminal. People tend to hop off the train very quickly. So, at least for flights to Barcelona, you need to add a couple of hours travel time to the flight time.

Stay with Barcelona if food is important, also a fabulous city in so many other ways.

Just back from a week-end here. Went once again to Tickets, the Adrià brothers' (El Bulli, the world's #1 restaurant the past decade) out of this world tapas restaurant. After two years Tickets is #57 on the S.Pellgrino World's best restaurant list. http://www.theworlds50best.com/list/51-100-winners

Fun and very affordable (70€pp for 2x13 courses incl drinks). The highlight this time was the smoked eel with wasabi mayonnaise, but the oysters, the razor clams etc etc are neither easily forgotten: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...50097938535070

You must book 60 days in advance, at midnight Barcelona time. Ten minutes after midnight, all tables are gone. http://www.ticketsbar.es/web/en/

Two plates at much less known places made it into our top three list this week-end. The Coca de Sardina at very nice and laid-back tapas bar Tapeo in El Born: http://www.tapeoborn.cat/tapas-menu/...ardina-en.html

And #1, the Bigoli en salsa Veneciana in one in a million place Xemei in Poble Sec: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Lvcjtoh0tU

And you have of course the hearty traditional Catalan food in timeless places such as 7 Portes, an institution in town. No visit to Barcelona is complete without a meal here: http://www.7portes.com/catala/index2.php

Other people will tell you about other fabulous restaurants and tapas bars. But you should now where to go, there are also lots of mediocre and bad places in Barcelona.

Exactly as above. Plane travel involves considerable more time than the stated flight time. If you have a noon flight,you will not spend any of the morning enjoying the city you are already in, and just a bit of the afternoon in the new city. You usually need to give yourself an hour to get to the airport. Plus you should arrive 1-2 hours early. Then likely another hour to get to your new hotel.

So for a noon flight, you'd wake up at 8am, get dressed, eat breakfast, and checkout of hotel by 9:30 to make it to airport by 10:30. Let's say the flight is two hours (hopefully no delays!). If you land at 2:00, it will 3pm at the earliest before you have left airport, arrived at new hotel (often an expensive taki ride from airport) checked-in, etc. plus, then you need to get your bearings in a new city, have lunch, etc. Not likely to get much sightseeing done.

In most cases, trains take you city center to city center, so are much more efficient in terms of time. I'd suggest dropping Barcelona and perhaps even Vienna, and planning your destinations around logical train connections.

Every city in Europe has interesting food and sights. They are all special. Spend your time enjoying them rather than the airports. Go and enjoy!

Kimhe speaks the truth. "there are also lots of mediocre and bad places in Barcelona"
It seemed worse to me last time I was there, especially on Las Ramblas.

And very well said from Msteacher, "Every city in Europe has interesting foods and sights. They are all special. spend your time enjoying them rather than the airports."

plus on the train you have the fun of interacting with other passengers [often locals and more chatty than the average air passenger] and the scenery. and if you have a 9am train [often far more choice of departure times] you can roll up to the station at 8.30 [at the earliest] but some breakfast, find the correct platform, climb on and get comfortable. By lunch time you'll be in Bologna/Florence/Milan, ensconced in your hotel and ready for lunch to celebrate your honeymoon in another gorgeous place, not sat in a departure lounge eating overpriced sandwiches.

Drop Barcelona [you have plenty of time to do it and Spain justice] spend longer in Venice, then go to Vienna [or wherever] by train and then train to Munich. perhaps fit Salzburg in on the way if no-where else in Italy really grabs you.

I suggest an overnight train from Venice to Vienna, private compartment. It will save daylight time, no airports, city center to city center. I've done it and loved it. Also Munich from Vienna by train. Infinitely more civilized and relaxing. Those 3 cities, leaving you more time in Italy, sounds like a great improvement to me.

Book your train tickets early for considerable savings. Check out all the great information on http://www.seat61.com, book on https://www.capitainetrain.com.

sandralist, "and who cares about Vienna, really?" and "During the many days I have spent in Vienna and Munich, I never ONCE ate schnitzel or Sacher Torte. Not once. "

It would seem as if you don't care about Vienna, so your comments about one being highly judgmental should perhaps be reflected back to you.

It is unfortunate, too, that you never ate Schnitzel ONCE in all your many days in Vienna. A well-prepared Schnitzel, unlike much of what is available in the touristy areas for the one-time visitor, can be an enjoyable part of Austrian cuisine. There is more to Austrian cuisine than Schnitzel, as I have stated; as you have not eaten a Schnitzel ONCE, I would presume you could elaborate on the topic, as well.

If you've never been there and not traveled this way, I wouldn't cut short the time at train stations. I would never arrive only 10 minutes before a train, for example, in any large city nor any station I didn't know well. In fact, some trains require you to get there before that (some have 30 minute requirements, I think the Eurostar does, not sure--major ones may). I know I'm a little OCD but I never skimp on projecting the time I arrive at train stations for a major train trip that is very important, when I don't know the station. Once you get there, it may take some time just to figure out the layout and find the information board and sometimes your track may be a bit of a hike from where you happen to enter, stuff like that. Some trains require security checks like planes.


I'll admit I rarely chat with locals on any train in Europe, I only did once when I was stuff in a car with 3 people between Vienna and Prague (and they happened to speak fluent English as I didn't speak German). Most people just mind their own business and sit alone or with their own travel companions, after all. I usually try to book a single seat, anyway. SO I wouldn't count that as any reason to decided between plane and train. Trains just take somewhat less time waiting and to/from, and I just personally hate the actual act of flying, that's all. I hate the checking of bags, the small seats, the clogged ears, you name it. I do it when it makes sense and is expedient, but not casually in a short trip.

I'm not big on Austrian cuisine, either, but I did have Schnitzel once. I don't LIKE veal and don't really approve of it, that's one reason. They eat a lot of it there. I hate sacher torte once but wwasn't crazy about it, just gave it a try. I don't really like cake, though, and the one I had was dry to boot (which I've read a lot about sacher torte so I think that is part of the recipe).

To answer the title question: On a scale of one to ten, 8 1/2.

I'd give it a 5.

<Kimhe speaks the truth. "there are also lots of mediocre and bad places in Barcelona">
The point was that there are few places in the world where you could eat better, but you should of course know where to go. I've lived in food mecca San Sebastian, but this last week-end in Barcelona beats everything.

This is all very helpful! We are still trying to decide.