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How CND's in EU on tourist visa switch to lengthy work visas

How CND's in EU on tourist visa switch to lengthy work visas

Nov 23rd, 2007, 09:10 AM
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 63,521
How are you going to get visas for all those other countries you want to vist??

janisj is online now  
Nov 23rd, 2007, 09:16 AM
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First, I should clarify that I shouldn't have used the term ' tourist visa', since Canadians travelling as tourists into Schengen don't require one. Rather, your present declared immigration status in Spain is as a tourist.

I'm amused to hear you describe yourself as a world traveller, not a tourist. Amused, since I don't see how that is going to affect your immigration status one iota. Then again, I think you're trolling a bit in any case, with such a remark.

For what it's worth, this is from the www.voyage.gc.ca website (it's public info, so I'm assuming it's okay to cut and paste onto Fodor's.)It appears under the Germany travel report, but may well apply to other Schengen countries as well. I've highlighted the most relevant part for you in bold typeface:

Extensions beyond 90 days are no longer possible. To stay longer, Canadians must apply for a residence permit and have a valid reason, such as education or employment. An overstay of one to three days will likely be tolerated by the German border authorities. Tourists who stay more than a few days (up to three weeks) beyond the 90-day limit must contact the Foreigners' Office (Ausländerbehörde) and present their outbound ticket in order to get a certificate (Grenzuebertrittsbescheinigung) that has to be given to the border authorities upon departure. Tourists who overstay and who do not have this certificate will be fined. A return to Germany is possible if tourists stay outside the country for the same amount of time they spent in Germany. This scenario cannot be repeated indefinitely. If Canadians have many entries (documented by entry stamps) and remain in Germany for longer visits, they might be refused entry.

In short, your proposed strategy of leaving and then re-entering three months later may not work for the full period of your supposed 2-3 year stay.

Now, have fun fishing. But this 'fish' is gone.
Sue_xx_yy is offline  
Nov 23rd, 2007, 11:01 AM
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And if one of your non-Schengen places to stay 90 days is the UK good luck! Their immigration authorities have a habit for asking to see your on-going ticket, your means of support, your medical insurance and info on the hotel you will be staying at - before they let you into the country. Saying you'll be couch-surfing is like a red flag to a bull. (And the younger and poorer you look the more likely they are to ask.)

Now you may simply continue as you choose - and if you never come to the notice of the authorities (traffic ticket, minor legal issue) you may get away with it. If not, you will be deported - and your name will go on a schengen wide computerized do not admit list.

If you don;t are - fine. But realize if it does it may have repercussions later in life.
nytraveler is offline  
Nov 23rd, 2007, 01:02 PM
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do you really think the uk will deport a canadian. i think not. i think you are overacting, but thanks anyways. i know the uk is suspicious of travelers, but i doubt they worry over a canadian backpacker. come on. if they want a hotel name, ill give them one. if they want health insurance, ill show them my canadian health card, if they want proof of onward travel, ill tell them im catching a boat to ireland, from wales. whatever. i doubt theyll see me as a threat. they have bigger fish to fry in london.

as for health insurance, if there is a non-emergency issue, i will pay for it, but the costs are usually under 100 dollars. in case of emergency care, i am screwed, but i doubt something totally horrible will happen to me. i am cautious. chances are little issues will come up frequently related to medical care, pharmacy, etc... but no hospital fees. i dont have an appendix or tonsils, and have all my vaccinations minus the ones i need for africa.

as for germany, we agrred i wouldnt pursue the working holiday visa route, i am not going to have a visa of any kind, ever. itīs too complicated, lengthy, and expensive.

and sue, i dont care what you think about a tourist vs. a <worldtraveler. thats not the issue here. why are you trying to start a personal argument. if i was a tourist, i would visit paris, romen, and london in 2 weeks and head back home, and tell all my friends iīve been to europe. no, thatīs not what i am doing, or what ive done. so donīīt call me names like troll, itīs not nice. would you like it-if i called you names, like goblin. no.

and sue, forget about germany. we only talked about it because of the working holiday visa they offer to canadians arelady in europe. but, they want medical insurance, and return ticket, and go knowns what else. they can keep their whv, i donīt want it anymore.

and i am not convinced i canīt repeat the 90 day in, 90 day out policy for at least a year. after all, i wonīt be re'entering, or exiting the same countries each 3 months, they will be different. for example i spend 90 days in spain, 90 in north africa, 90 days in scandanavia, 90 days in former yugoslavia, then 90 days in uk, scotland, ireland, 90 days in meditarrean, 90 days in middle east. in short, i will never return to the places ive already visited. NO return trips, rememember.

Thanks, and i hope i have made my intentions clear. itīs so easy for some of you to misunderstand me. I guess thatīs my fault.

and visas for n africa, and russia can be obtained from their respective embassies in any european capital.

sandy456 is offline  
Nov 23rd, 2007, 01:06 PM
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and i am aware new schengen countries are joining, but romanian and bulgaria are expempt until 2011, cyprus is free until 2009, and swiss, along with the new eu countries are joining in 2008. and the others i mentioned above are never going to join schengen, or at least not when im visiting europe.
sandy456 is offline  
Nov 23rd, 2007, 01:43 PM
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My experience, two times, was that my companies transferred me to Holland and Germany. They did all the paperwork (considerable) and got my work permit AND residence permit. You need both. That was all up front legal.

Three other times I have relocated myself to France, Holland, and Switzerland. Those transfers were all absolutely illegal. I had no stinking permits and had no problems.

Most European borders are wide open and you can (I have) raced through at 100 MPH. The only border questions I have had in the last 10 years were in Switzerland and the Baltic countries.

Stuff 'em all and the nay sayer negativists. Just keep your head under radar, i.e. don't commit a crime.

If you can afford this do it but you are on your own, TOTALLY. Being the free spirit you are you are going to love it.

hopscotch is offline  
Nov 23rd, 2007, 02:48 PM
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Sandy: what you perceive as people wanting to "start a personal argument" is simply people with an opinion other than your own. Hard though you find it to believe, some folks deem the law, and the intent of the law, applies to EVERYONE. Other folks think the law is something to find a loophole to exploit. Sometimes the former folks think the latter folks are basically anti-social or anarchist, disdaining the compliance with normal constraints of civilization.
tomboy is offline  
Nov 23rd, 2007, 06:08 PM
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Ok, I am taking a deep breath because I really don't want to be part of a war of words. But, because you sound like you are young and determined and you have already said you are a Canadian,and I am a Canadian, who has lived and worked legally in Europe, I will just add two things.

One of the places you have mentioned going to for your 90 days in and 90 days out plan was the UK. When I was living and working legally in Italy, I went back and forth a couple of times between Italy and England.

My papers were scrutinised very thoroughly. I am a middle-aged woman, in an outfit like I suspect your Mom wears to go out to dinner. They went over everything just as thoroughly as if I was a back-packing couch-surfing student. No, I don't hink they will deport you, but they can turn you back at a border and, in the spirit of EU camaraderie, notify the country you are trying to exit.And all at your expense. You leave a paper trail, you know.

Second thing: Yes, I know you don't plan on getting sick, but IF you did, your Canadian health care card does not work if you have been out of the country for more than 180 day in a row, without all kinds of officialdom (like a student visa/work permit). YOU LEAVE A PAPERTRAIL.

We are not trying to spoil your fun, just suggesting an alternate plan. Remember you did ask...

And, BTW, a troll is nothing like a goblin on this forum. And maybe you are one and I just got caught. But if you are not, then PLEASE, do think again about doing your world traveling all in one giant semi-employed, permission-free gulp.And good luck!
LJ is offline  
Nov 24th, 2007, 07:30 AM
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Hi, Sandy,

Based on my own experience and what others have said, it sounds like your choice is either to stay without a visa and get the kind of work you can get without a permit, or if you can't stand the illegal status, just give up and go home. But I agree with everyone who is telling you that you are unlikely to qualify for anything that resembles legal status.

I've spent several year-long chunks in western Europe, most recently in Lisbon in 04-05. We (husband, 20 year old son, and I) arrived on a tourist visa, intending to deal with the visa issue later (we had already spent 1995-96 in Spain with no visa and no problem, during that year both kids attended school, we bought a car, rented an apartment and never had a problem, but we weren't working). In 2004, soon after arriving, I made several inquiries and got the advice from an immigration official in Lisbon that we could start the paperwork for some sort of non-work legal status but that nothing was likely to be resolved before we left 10 months later.

I am lucky to have an Irish passport, which according to this guy in Lisbon also entitled my husband and son to apply for some sort of residency permit, but based on what we heard at that office, we just never went that route. Our son spent the year studying in Spain visa-less, and knows many young Americans who have gone back and worked without visas and without problems. My situation is different from yours since I do have that Irish passport, but I never relied on it at all during the year we were there.

Our son was studying in Spain at a university doing a "course for foreigners" run by the university and not by a US university. He did leave the country in April for ten days to return to the US and then go back to Spain. As he was leaving the country, at the Madrid airport, the immigration guy asked him whether he had a visa, he said no, that his mom was in Lisbon with an Irish passport, and the guy told him that he "really should have a visa" because "he might have problems sometime." My son wondered who it was that was going to give him the problems if that guy wasn't, but kept that thought to himself and went on his way, out and back into Spain without incident.

When he finally left Spain in June, there was nothing said.

In my opinion, and this is just my opinion, immigration officials (on the Iberian peninsula at least) are unlikely to make an issue with caucasian North Americans who look like them. My son had a friend from Africa studying in the same city in Spain, and it was a very different experience for that young man. He was astonished to hear about my son's trip home during the year, with easy re-entry.

Having said all of that, I do know two young people who took the time to get a visa in order to work on a variety of organic farms around western Europe. It was a great program, they went from region to region, following different harvests, and had a year chock full of amazing experiences and memories. I don't know the name of the program, but I'm sure a web search will bring it up easily, if you are inclined to the agricultural side of things.

Good luck.
lreynold1 is offline  
Nov 24th, 2007, 09:32 AM
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Let us clarify a few misunderstandings:

First, a 'troll' as the word is used on this board is not a goblin, it is someone who says something provocative, i.e. in hopes of stirring people up.

Second: it's fine to prefer long-term travel, but you should appreciate that a long-term trip is but one of many means to an end. Several shorter trips can achieve the same thing.

In other words, many things other than ignorance can explain why people take only short-term jaunts to Europe, and you are discovering one of them: staying longer (legally) can be a bureaucratic nightmare. Another reason is because two to three weeks is all that people can get in the way of vacation in any given year. Either way, people don't necessarily attempt pan-European itineraries in those two to three weeks. But even if they do, that is still no index as to their ignorance, and still less to what they say to their friends upon return. (Who the heck knows what they say, unless one is privy to the conversation?)

As for ignorance, we are all ignorant about something, and almost certainly ignorant about some aspect of travel. The point I'm making here is that if you truly don't wish to be seen as provocative, then refrain from engaging in that ol' oneupmanship exercise, 'be a traveller not a tourist.' Yes, I know this has become a popular mantra of late, but popularity is not necessarily the best guide to what is courteous, let alone accurate.

Speaking of accurate, you ask, "do you really think the U.K. will deport a Canadian?" Things are starting to get confusing because the thread has discussed both the Schengen countries (of which Germany is one), and the U.K. (which is not.) Also, few if any here have used the word deportation. The quote I supplied you with uses the words 'refused entry'. Will it actually happen to you? Who knows? Maybe, maybe not. But all people are trying to point out to you is, that without advance paperwork being done, the countries in question reserve the right to refuse entry (or re-entry) to you on various grounds, Canadian backpacker or no.
Sue_xx_yy is offline  
Nov 24th, 2007, 10:29 AM
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and along those lines - If/when you are refused entry -- the country you just left will most likely not let you back in. If so, you will be in immigration limbo and Toronto will likely be the next airport you see.
janisj is online now  
Nov 24th, 2007, 11:14 AM
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And I watched a Canadian woman get refused entry to the UK while waiting in a long line at Heathrow. It does happen.
Heather49 is offline  
Nov 24th, 2007, 11:16 AM
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And I would imagine having to pay for a last minute one way airline ticket would be quite expensive, yes?
LoveItaly is offline  
Nov 24th, 2007, 03:55 PM
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Watch out sandy456. The sky is falling, the Earth is boiling, and we are running out of food and fuel. Do it while you can. Wash your face every morning, stay out of trouble, and you will have the time of your life. This assumes that you have the cash to do this because you can not get a legal job.

One of my favorite books is Ed Buryn's "Vagabonding in Europe and North Africa." This beauty is probably twice as old as you are. You will certainly get inspiration and great advice from it, or you will discover that you are not ready for this kind of life.

hopscotch is offline  
Nov 24th, 2007, 04:10 PM
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hopscotch: I love Ed Byrne's book too. But it was written in 1973. I moved to the UK in the 70's and met lots and LOTS of folks doing that sort of thing.

But in the current world - well it IS an entirely different world we live now. Most countries take immigration much more seriously - and the consequences when it goes wrong are much greater.
janisj is online now  
Nov 24th, 2007, 04:47 PM
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Sandy, I know you are trying to be careful, but if you have the money I would HIGHLY recommend calling a Canadian travel agency to get international travel insurance to cover you. I have heard horror stories of the most unexpected things happening to people overseas who have no insurance, and it could ruin the rest of your life. PLEASE try and get some medical insurance.
abbynicole27 is offline  
Nov 27th, 2007, 03:04 AM
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i want insurance, but ONLY if they cover non-emergency care, and coverage.

like stolen passport, ipod, camera, etc...

chipped tooth, after a billard bill hits it

and other pharmacy costs.

sandy456 is offline  
Nov 27th, 2007, 06:31 AM
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All that for no more than $9.99/month?
tomboy is offline  
Nov 28th, 2007, 12:20 PM
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yes, i am convinced i can do it. 90 in, 90 out, over and over again. In each 3 month journey to Europe, I will spend the first month making money (no lecture, please), and the other 2 traveling. North Africa, UK, former Yugo, Russia, and the Middle East will be exit zones.

Long live the world traveler.

sandy456 is offline  
Nov 28th, 2007, 12:25 PM
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I strongly second the recommendation of Ed Buryn, both his Europe book and his Vagabonding in America book.

People live the life. The road is an interesting place.
Ackislander is offline  

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