kleeblatt

Hi Beaupeep! Love your lifestyle. Unfortunately, not all Swiss are as lucky as you. My husband gets 4.5 weeks vacation (which is still great in comparison to other countries) and our income barely puts us into the middle class.

International companies pay VERY well in Switzerland and are very generous with vacation. Local companies just can't afford that generosity towards their employees.

(I used to work for an international company but had to quit when I had children. Daycare is still tabu here and very hard to find. Love my family life but I do miss my paycheck.)

Hans

"Their reply was that taxes in Germany are so high, they wil not be going on any vacation this year...think it over...."

I don't think that they are very representative. Germany topped last year again the list of money spent on travel abroad (runners-up USA and UK) and the industry is very optimistic for 2007, expecting a larger increase in spending than in the last years.

beaupeep

schuler, I have no kids but am appalled, shocked, astounded at what the young women and their husbands have to pay for childcare! I am sure that if we had children we wouldn't be able to afford the things we do but we live very cheaply in the center of Lausanne. It's an inexpensive apartment because we've been there for years so they can't raise the rent too much. If we left, we would have to double our rent.

We didn't own a car until last year when we bought our land and needed it to get there with tools, etc. We tore down the old chalet ourselves by hand and will build the new one ourselves by hand. We aren't rich, believe me!

kerouac

While other factors are certainly involved, the services provided for families in France are considered to be the principal reason that France has the highest birth rate in Europe (now at 2.0, compared to 1.3 in several surrounding countries) -- baby care, scolarity of all children by age 3, parental leave, health care, etc., all help to make it possible to have children and also for both parents to have a full time career.

Lydio

The fertility rate1 in the EU27 in 2005 was 1.51, with France (1.92), Ireland (1.88), Denmark, Finland and the
United Kingdom (all 1.80) recording the highest rates. In Poland (1.24), Slovakia (1.25), Slovenia (1.26),
Lithuania (1.27), the Czech Republic and Greece (both 1.28) the lowest rates were observed.

Childcare in Ireland and the UK is appalling but they still have a highish birth rate.

ira

Hi Logos,

>The amount of income tax reduction I recieve for doing so, about equals the coast of the trip plus all training costs...

That means that your tax rate is 100%.
That's rather steep.

ira

>While other factors are certainly involved, the services provided for families in France are considered to be the principal reason that France has the highest birth rate in Europe ...<

May I suggest that the birth rate amongst Muslim immigrants (estimated by some to be about 4) might be a major factor?

NeoPatrick

ira, I think you misunderstood logos. The amount of income tax saved on his ANNUAL income tax with various deductions taken because of the training is enough to pay for the cost of the trip itself. There are a variety of tax reductions you can get for such educational ventures other than just declaring the cost of the trip itself. Let's just start with the loss of income and various expenses involved if you are taking time off work. Plus there are many more.

kerouac

Ira, only 10% of the babies in France are the children of immigrants. The "immigrant" birthrate is an undying myth. As for 2nd generation persons, their birthrate is almost the same as ethnic French, although I will admit that the details can be fuzzy, since it is illegal in France to compile any statistics regarding race, ethnic origin or religion. However, it is easy to know if the parents of babies are French citizens or not.

kerouac

Here is a recent Herald Tribune article about the French birthrate:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/...on/edpfaff.php

NeoPatrick

For those who don't want to read that Herald Tribune article, the last paragraph in it is perhaps the most interesting:

"Another possible birth incentive in France, which may not be copied elsewhere, is its 35-hour workweek. It has been suggested that the French have so much leisure now that they have found nothing more interesting to do with it than have babies, combining fun with demographic patriotism."

logos999

>Plus there are many more.
Yes, correct."Verpflegungsmehraufwand" is only one of them. You can deduct a certain amout every day for the fact that you may need to pay more on food while you're abroad. Same goes for a flat rate on hotel costs, while you're free to find a cheaper hotel. Perfectly legal. Germany is still a communist country, just "evolved". Imagine how many government people are needed to check the details of all your tax declarations...

wren

Hans...maybe my friends are not representative...maybe not as well off as you...but I am just reporting what they wrote me. They live in a town in northern Germany and I think he drives a truck, while she works at a hospital. Their daughter is grown. I will try to get more info from them.
I would be interested in the article that gave you the statistics on travel by country because statistics when researching it.

alanRow

Lydio, the high birthrate in the UK is due to underage chavesses getting pregnant so the council will give them a house and the government will give them zillion of pounds a week to bunk off school*

*channelling the Daily Mail - if it was affecting house prices and/or had anything to do with Di's death then it would be the Daily Express

Hans

Hi wren,

do you read German? http://www.handelsblatt.com/news/Jou...ltmeister.html

Here's a statistic in English from 2004. It seems that it's still the same in 2006. http://www.world-tourism.org/facts/menu.html

There's also currently an international tourism fair in Berlin which results in some press coverage. The industry is obviously interested in trends and one of them is that about 70% of the Germans have already decided upon having a vacation in 2007. This obviously leaves a substantial part of Germans who won't have vacations and financial questions probably often play a role in this decision. Nevertheless I think that it's fair to say that it aren't just the top earners in Germany who have some money left to spend on vacations.

ira

Hi Neo and logos,

I'd be very interested in how you manage to reduce your tax payment by the full amount of the training costs.

Here in the US, I can (with a bit of creative accounting) get back about 1/2 of what I would spend.

ira

Hi kerouac
>Ira, only 10% of the babies in France are the children of immigrants.<

I am willing to be corrected.

Have you a citation?

kerouac

Well, Ira, here's a tidbit:

Elle n'est pas négligeable, puisque la France est un pays d'immigration de longue date. Cependant, ces naissances ne représentent qu'un enfant sur 5 ou 6 en France. Il faut comprendre que si la fécondité des familles immigrées est élevée, celle des enfants issus de l'immigration est la même que celle des Français. Quand les immigrés arrivent en France, c'est pour fonder une famille. Mais après une génération d'adaptation, leur fécondité est à peu près la même que celle des familles d'origine française. Sans les mères immigrées, le taux de fécondité serait de 1,8 enfant par femme au lieu des 1,9 de 2005. Elles contribuent donc aux naissances, mais de façon minoritaire.

logos999

Ira, training costs are less than half of what I'd pay at home just the training and the certitificates remain the same. And I can include the foreign VAT as deductable costs. True, it's not all tax but the result leaves more money in my pocket than I would have left not doing the trip at all.
Of course I loose money not working during that time ;-)

NeoPatrick

And can't a good tax account take a tax break for loss of wages when you are training?