How are american girls treated in northern Ireland?
Feb 5th, 2011, 10:48 AM
#21
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And one would think that american girls are treated poorly in Ireland why?
Since when did Ireland jump back into the 15th century?
(I won't comment on how young american girls are treated in Egypt since I don't know. I do know from personal experience that women are treated differently - on a business trip the supplier with whom we made arrangements before our arrival could not understand that 2 women were in charge of the entire project/meeting. They kept asking when "the boss" would arrive - and tried to avoid finalizing details in meetings. And bringing us gifts at each meeting. We had to threaten to cancel the contract before they would start moving. But - don't know how this would affect tourists - since they are dealing primarily with people used to the expectations of foreign tourists.)
Since when did Ireland jump back into the 15th century?
(I won't comment on how young american girls are treated in Egypt since I don't know. I do know from personal experience that women are treated differently - on a business trip the supplier with whom we made arrangements before our arrival could not understand that 2 women were in charge of the entire project/meeting. They kept asking when "the boss" would arrive - and tried to avoid finalizing details in meetings. And bringing us gifts at each meeting. We had to threaten to cancel the contract before they would start moving. But - don't know how this would affect tourists - since they are dealing primarily with people used to the expectations of foreign tourists.)
Feb 5th, 2011, 01:57 PM
#22
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I live in Belfast N Ireland and I have never heard of American women being talked down to a lot or treated poorly. Having said that that Irish women (even 18 year olds) are street wise and are quite able to give as much as they can get.
Bty, I am a single female and have been to Egypt several times. I have never felt harassed, perhaps Irish women are not Pretty enough!
Bty, I am a single female and have been to Egypt several times. I have never felt harassed, perhaps Irish women are not Pretty enough!
Feb 6th, 2011, 10:40 AM
#23
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The poster referred to 'northern Ireland', and is debating staying with family in Co Donegal. This is NOT the same place as 'Northern Ireland'.
Americans in general have an appalling reputation among a very large proportion of the largest "tribe" in the area: Northern Irish Protestants. They're not exactly national heroes to every NI or Irish Republic Catholic either. I doubt any of the previous posters have ever tried drinking in a Shankhill Road pub with an American accent (or needing, as I've done in spite of being an Irish Catholic, a military escort to visit my staff in Co Armagh)
Now the kind of casual encounter ordinary tourists engage in while touring the region is unlikely to generate hostility: hospitality's important in Ireland, tourism is important to the Irish economy, and few tourists ever get close enough to locals - anywhere, ever - to get beyond natural politeness. A teenage American normally will encounter nothing other than friendliness as a conventional tourist, or even hitching round the country.
But start socialising properly (really start proper conversatons with family members after staying with them for a few days, or start chatting up the opposite sex in a Derry bar) and it's very, very easy for Americans to hit issues that can cause intense irritation, provoking responses Americans - especially younger ones - may not be well equipped to deal with.
There are mainly two problems, but they interconnect:
- <b> Conversational culture </b> English as spoken in the British Isles, is heavy in its use of irony, banter and humour. It's also VERY articulate. English as spoken in America is far more straightforward - and more tolerant of Modern Teenage Inarticulateness (MTI), in which "he's so like..." is accepted as a sentence. Even in the most benign circumstances, Irish teenagers will start taking the piss out of MTI speakers within a couple of days of an MTI-speaking distant American cousin coming to stay. They'd take the piss out of a similar cousin with a Liverpool or London accent as well: but the British relative would be more likely to understand what's going on and have the bantering skills to prevent it turning into a problem
- <b> The Troubles </b> The basic problem, (less acute in Cavan, Donegal and Monaghan than in Northern Ireland, but still a problem there) is that many socialising Americans belong to that odd group that calls itself 'Irish-American'. Often, they will have learned a wholly racist lie about Ireland's sectarian problems - and can very easily drift into using American phrases (like "Ulster Scots" or "Scots-Irish") that are preposterously inaccurate and can give offence to some. To complicate things, small elements of history (like Teddy Kennedy's support for the ethnic cleansing of Protestant Irish) are remembered and nurtured in Ireland long after they've been forgotten in the US.
To many (in my experience almost all, but others may have different experiences) NI Protestants, the last 50 years of murders and maiming are very much the fault of the money poured into "Catholic" terrorist organisations by ordinary Americans with Irish surnames. Even among many Catholics there's less resentment towards Protestants or the British Army than at how misguided, or downright malevolent, American support helped turn the Provisional IRA from an anachronistic joke into a powerful terrorist organisation - in turn terrorising and oppressing Catholics just as much as it murdered innocent Protestants. And "American" means support by ordinary Americans: the US government has been generally popular in NI and the border counties, often seen as a trustworty neutral without the mistrust the London, Dublin and Belfast adminstrations provoke.
The overall resentment's dying away, and the anger's greater in NI than in the Republic border counties. But there's always a bunch of idiots likely to try to get the whole thing started again, and the poster's got no way of knowing whether the nice boy she's met in a Strabane boozer, or a very distant cousin Tim, hasn't had some trauma - exposure to a bomb, loss of a relative or even something as silly as being turned down for a US green card - they might blame on Americans after a couple of glasses of Magners/Bulmers.
Now the poster's not going to be able learn the British Isles Standard Banter language in a few months, and she'd be mad to turn down a real opportunity to learn how different some foreigners can be.
I'd suggest she remembers two things:
1. As far as the overwhelming majority of Irish people are concerned, NI Protestants are Irish and Americans with Irish surnames are just plain, unhyphenated, Americans. Protestants' families have been in Ireland a great deal longer than white Americans have been in America.
2. The advice of the great (and Protestant) Irish writer Oscar Wilde: "If one could only teach the English how to talk, and the Irish how to listen, society here would be quite civilised". Irish genes don't always encourage quietly listening to the other's point of view before expressing a potentially incendiary opinion (on this I am the world's greatest leading expert). Observe what's going on, keep your wits about you, learn how to look as if you're keeping up with them in the pub without drinking more than you can handle and you'll have a memorable time. Even if your cousins tease you unmercifully about your silly accent and strange sense of fashion.
Americans in general have an appalling reputation among a very large proportion of the largest "tribe" in the area: Northern Irish Protestants. They're not exactly national heroes to every NI or Irish Republic Catholic either. I doubt any of the previous posters have ever tried drinking in a Shankhill Road pub with an American accent (or needing, as I've done in spite of being an Irish Catholic, a military escort to visit my staff in Co Armagh)
Now the kind of casual encounter ordinary tourists engage in while touring the region is unlikely to generate hostility: hospitality's important in Ireland, tourism is important to the Irish economy, and few tourists ever get close enough to locals - anywhere, ever - to get beyond natural politeness. A teenage American normally will encounter nothing other than friendliness as a conventional tourist, or even hitching round the country.
But start socialising properly (really start proper conversatons with family members after staying with them for a few days, or start chatting up the opposite sex in a Derry bar) and it's very, very easy for Americans to hit issues that can cause intense irritation, provoking responses Americans - especially younger ones - may not be well equipped to deal with.
There are mainly two problems, but they interconnect:
- <b> Conversational culture </b> English as spoken in the British Isles, is heavy in its use of irony, banter and humour. It's also VERY articulate. English as spoken in America is far more straightforward - and more tolerant of Modern Teenage Inarticulateness (MTI), in which "he's so like..." is accepted as a sentence. Even in the most benign circumstances, Irish teenagers will start taking the piss out of MTI speakers within a couple of days of an MTI-speaking distant American cousin coming to stay. They'd take the piss out of a similar cousin with a Liverpool or London accent as well: but the British relative would be more likely to understand what's going on and have the bantering skills to prevent it turning into a problem
- <b> The Troubles </b> The basic problem, (less acute in Cavan, Donegal and Monaghan than in Northern Ireland, but still a problem there) is that many socialising Americans belong to that odd group that calls itself 'Irish-American'. Often, they will have learned a wholly racist lie about Ireland's sectarian problems - and can very easily drift into using American phrases (like "Ulster Scots" or "Scots-Irish") that are preposterously inaccurate and can give offence to some. To complicate things, small elements of history (like Teddy Kennedy's support for the ethnic cleansing of Protestant Irish) are remembered and nurtured in Ireland long after they've been forgotten in the US.
To many (in my experience almost all, but others may have different experiences) NI Protestants, the last 50 years of murders and maiming are very much the fault of the money poured into "Catholic" terrorist organisations by ordinary Americans with Irish surnames. Even among many Catholics there's less resentment towards Protestants or the British Army than at how misguided, or downright malevolent, American support helped turn the Provisional IRA from an anachronistic joke into a powerful terrorist organisation - in turn terrorising and oppressing Catholics just as much as it murdered innocent Protestants. And "American" means support by ordinary Americans: the US government has been generally popular in NI and the border counties, often seen as a trustworty neutral without the mistrust the London, Dublin and Belfast adminstrations provoke.
The overall resentment's dying away, and the anger's greater in NI than in the Republic border counties. But there's always a bunch of idiots likely to try to get the whole thing started again, and the poster's got no way of knowing whether the nice boy she's met in a Strabane boozer, or a very distant cousin Tim, hasn't had some trauma - exposure to a bomb, loss of a relative or even something as silly as being turned down for a US green card - they might blame on Americans after a couple of glasses of Magners/Bulmers.
Now the poster's not going to be able learn the British Isles Standard Banter language in a few months, and she'd be mad to turn down a real opportunity to learn how different some foreigners can be.
I'd suggest she remembers two things:
1. As far as the overwhelming majority of Irish people are concerned, NI Protestants are Irish and Americans with Irish surnames are just plain, unhyphenated, Americans. Protestants' families have been in Ireland a great deal longer than white Americans have been in America.
2. The advice of the great (and Protestant) Irish writer Oscar Wilde: "If one could only teach the English how to talk, and the Irish how to listen, society here would be quite civilised". Irish genes don't always encourage quietly listening to the other's point of view before expressing a potentially incendiary opinion (on this I am the world's greatest leading expert). Observe what's going on, keep your wits about you, learn how to look as if you're keeping up with them in the pub without drinking more than you can handle and you'll have a memorable time. Even if your cousins tease you unmercifully about your silly accent and strange sense of fashion.
Feb 6th, 2011, 03:09 PM
#25
yep, um -- terrific explanation. But honestly (reading the her threads in total -- and not meant as a slam) I suspect the OP has little concept of the troubles and is more 'Valley Girl' than Boston-based collaborator
Feb 6th, 2011, 05:01 PM
#26
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There seems to be some confusion about Irish-Americans. n the US we have Irish-Americans, German-americansn, Italian Americans, Carib-Americans and every other kind you can think of.
This is very rarely a political designation - but merely a means of identifying with the remnants of one's culture (music, food, special holidays etc). this is not something unique to Ireland - as I can testify since I work near the UN. We have demonstrations on the streets almost every week - ranging from the current Egyptian crisis to the ever present Free tibet demonstrations.
We're big on "freeing everyone everywhere" - unfortunately often in an unguided way that is ineffective to catastrophic. IMHO the idea is right - but our background knowledge and execution is often lacking. But - we always root for the perceived underdog - and are very sensitive about what are perceived as "bullies".
This is very rarely a political designation - but merely a means of identifying with the remnants of one's culture (music, food, special holidays etc). this is not something unique to Ireland - as I can testify since I work near the UN. We have demonstrations on the streets almost every week - ranging from the current Egyptian crisis to the ever present Free tibet demonstrations.
We're big on "freeing everyone everywhere" - unfortunately often in an unguided way that is ineffective to catastrophic. IMHO the idea is right - but our background knowledge and execution is often lacking. But - we always root for the perceived underdog - and are very sensitive about what are perceived as "bullies".
Feb 7th, 2011, 12:54 AM
#27
Sensible advice here, my advice would be that you will have a great time, you will be verbally cut and sliced (probably once) because generally the Irish from both ends of the country tend to be verbally very quick and may well find your American folksy and amusing.
Other than that women have been very strong members of the populus for many years with women folk heroes going back in all traditions. As a result women are full citizens, can vote, talk in public etc, in fact they scare the bejusus out of me.
Other than that women have been very strong members of the populus for many years with women folk heroes going back in all traditions. As a result women are full citizens, can vote, talk in public etc, in fact they scare the bejusus out of me.
Feb 7th, 2011, 02:29 AM
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.....But - we always root for the perceived underdog - and are very sensitive about what are perceived as "bullies".....
My lips are sealed ;-)
I agree about the banter. I remember an American teenager announcing bumptiously to his Irish relations that he was on a special gifted and talented programme at school.
The Irish lot proceeded to "examine" him on general knowledge. It was all done very wittily and with great good humour, but he will never make that boast again.
In my experience what ascends Irish nostrils is when Americans announce that they are Irish without the hyphen.
BTW, I remember a soldier telling a young visiting Kennedy to go back to his own country.
"Why don't you go back to yours?", said Kennedy
"I'm in it mate!"
My lips are sealed ;-)
I agree about the banter. I remember an American teenager announcing bumptiously to his Irish relations that he was on a special gifted and talented programme at school.
The Irish lot proceeded to "examine" him on general knowledge. It was all done very wittily and with great good humour, but he will never make that boast again.
In my experience what ascends Irish nostrils is when Americans announce that they are Irish without the hyphen.
BTW, I remember a soldier telling a young visiting Kennedy to go back to his own country.
"Why don't you go back to yours?", said Kennedy
"I'm in it mate!"
May 7th, 2011, 06:18 AM
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Right, one thing to clear up, I'm sure you are all coming over and actually meeting someone or staying with someone (or whatever) who lives in belfast and are friends with them? Thats is if its a casual holiday of some sort.
Nothern Ireland treat american people quite friendly over here. Very welcoming.
The type of people who we are is e.g. say your in the city and you're struggling to find a place and stop to ask for directions, the person would gladly take the map from you and show you, or better still they on a lot of occasions will actually go along with you to make sure you get to your destination. However, we belfast people can talk too much and have you standing with your map there for a while hahaha lol.
However, one thing I would not get into is Politics. It still causes a lot of conflict. So, if you can, refrain from mentioning anything about politics or religion. If it happens to come up in a conversation, I would seriously advise you to take a neutral stance on the whole thing.
One thing that irish people really DISLIKE is when an American tries to claim that they are irish because their great great grandfather or something had a child with an irish women or something airy and bizarre like that lol. Youre American, who happens to have an Irish ancestor. It on some occassions may let you get an irish passport and claim part citizenship of Ireland? I dont know. Im not clued up on that. But try to refrain from making those claims. I know Americans like Ireland, and you want to feel some comradarie or common ground and would like to feel apart of it, but it can come across as disrespectful to some people even. Unless of course you say your father is Irish, fair enough, youre certainly part irish. (ive been talking quite a bit, which goes to show that I was not wrong when I said Belfast people will talk you to death! LOL)
Were quite mellow people, and it takes alot for us to get excited about trivial things. We dont all like potatoes and get drunk and beat our wives, but generally yes we ALL love to get drunk and like our beer and whiskey and what not lol.
Our humour is (or "craic" as we call it) is one of a kind. It's sometimes hard to grasp, and we generally rely a lot on our humour to socialise with others. But I, personally, tend to try find some common thing to laugh about, because that's usually what most of our mind sets consist of: humour.
You said about people talking down to you, listen people do that to me, or it seems that way lol. It really is not what is happening there lol. here is what's happening when you think that people are talking down to you or talking like youre a child; A lot of the time you wont understand what were saying! haha. Thats what Ive felt. Ive never patronized people from other countries...it usually just the dialect barrier. And in most cases it's just how we talk! haha.
Seriously, you'll enjoy it if it's a casual holiday thing. Just dont act like we're aliens! lol. Try socialise with some people when youre out, and if it's a person from belfast youre staying or meeting with all the better!
GOOD LUCK
Nothern Ireland treat american people quite friendly over here. Very welcoming.
The type of people who we are is e.g. say your in the city and you're struggling to find a place and stop to ask for directions, the person would gladly take the map from you and show you, or better still they on a lot of occasions will actually go along with you to make sure you get to your destination. However, we belfast people can talk too much and have you standing with your map there for a while hahaha lol.
However, one thing I would not get into is Politics. It still causes a lot of conflict. So, if you can, refrain from mentioning anything about politics or religion. If it happens to come up in a conversation, I would seriously advise you to take a neutral stance on the whole thing.
One thing that irish people really DISLIKE is when an American tries to claim that they are irish because their great great grandfather or something had a child with an irish women or something airy and bizarre like that lol. Youre American, who happens to have an Irish ancestor. It on some occassions may let you get an irish passport and claim part citizenship of Ireland? I dont know. Im not clued up on that. But try to refrain from making those claims. I know Americans like Ireland, and you want to feel some comradarie or common ground and would like to feel apart of it, but it can come across as disrespectful to some people even. Unless of course you say your father is Irish, fair enough, youre certainly part irish. (ive been talking quite a bit, which goes to show that I was not wrong when I said Belfast people will talk you to death! LOL)
Were quite mellow people, and it takes alot for us to get excited about trivial things. We dont all like potatoes and get drunk and beat our wives, but generally yes we ALL love to get drunk and like our beer and whiskey and what not lol.
Our humour is (or "craic" as we call it) is one of a kind. It's sometimes hard to grasp, and we generally rely a lot on our humour to socialise with others. But I, personally, tend to try find some common thing to laugh about, because that's usually what most of our mind sets consist of: humour.
You said about people talking down to you, listen people do that to me, or it seems that way lol. It really is not what is happening there lol. here is what's happening when you think that people are talking down to you or talking like youre a child; A lot of the time you wont understand what were saying! haha. Thats what Ive felt. Ive never patronized people from other countries...it usually just the dialect barrier. And in most cases it's just how we talk! haha.
Seriously, you'll enjoy it if it's a casual holiday thing. Just dont act like we're aliens! lol. Try socialise with some people when youre out, and if it's a person from belfast youre staying or meeting with all the better!
GOOD LUCK
