Tony Hughes

Personally a gay area wouldnt bother me that much although if I had the choice I wouldn't make a special effort to book that area unless there was something special about the area (shopping/views/cost etc) <BR> <BR>As for hotel, I would steer clear of a gay-orientated place if I could. Now before all the moral highgrounders beat me to a pulp think on this: would a gay man (or woman) book into a straight-orientated hotel if they had a choice? <BR> <BR>I'm not a part of the gay community just as I'm not part of the Catholic or black or irish communities. I'm also no homophobe but I dont particularly want to see men kissing - is that so bad?

kate

Yes Tony, gay people do choose to stay in straight hotels, as the choice would be pretty limited if they didn't. <BR> <BR>I think it's a tremendous shame that you don't want to be around gay people kissing. Gay people have enough restrictions on their lifestyle purely because of choice of partner, and not being able to show simple affection in public is a soul-destroying situation to be in. Can you imagine not being able to walk down the street hand-in-hand with your partner? <BR> <BR>It's just another form of prejudice akin to people objecting to seeing a black man going out with a white woman. <BR> <BR>I don't know this area of Paris, but if it's anything like Soho in London, then Gay people will only constitute a small part of the people who live, work and visit that part of town.

nancy

I find it sad that a question like this even comes up. <BR>I am not sure what Kristin or her husband would be made uncomfortable by, <BR>Just being around gays,or the sight of gay people showing some affection? <BR>Most gay couples observe the same "rules" of what is proper for public behavior as straight couples do. <BR>I am not sure what Tony thinks would be so different about a "gay oriented" hotel, and a "straight" oriented hotel. <BR>Neither place would be run like a bordello. <BR>I think it is so sad that there has to be "gay" and "straight" <BR>we are all people, and we all want love. <BR>I live in a part of Vermont, with a large "gay" population. <BR>I also live in a state where there are now civil unions for gay couples. <BR>Nothing has changed here in Vt, since the law was passed, we have not been over-run by gay couples flocking to this state by the hundreds (as anti- civil union folks predicted) <BR>I am sorry that I have run on and on about this, it just saddens me to see that people even feel this way. <BR>

kate

Thank you Nancy, I whole-heartedly agree. It seems that having a same-sex partner stamps "GAY" on your forehead, as if that is your sole reason for being, rather than it just being one part of the person.

Tony Hughes

Beggin' yer pardon, kate, but you're missing the point. <BR> <BR>I'm not against men kissing in public, I just dont want to see it. I wouldnt create a stink if i saw it happening just as i wouldnt create a stink if i saw someone urinating in the street, but I dont particularly want to see it. Thus I would probably avoid those areas (would you want me to deliberately go to these areas and create a fuss???) <BR> <BR>For the record Kate, what's a straight hotel? I was talking hypothetically, I've never seen a hotel saying 'we cater predominantly for straight people' 'cos that wouldnt be allowed because people like you I'm sorry to say, would be screaming to anyone who listened that this is anti-gay (as it happens, I'm not in favour of 'straight' hotels either if such a thing was to exist) <BR> <BR>It's this whole culture where anything gay MUST be embraced and if you dare to say anything against anyone who happens to be gay then you are a homophobe. <BR> <BR>Why would i WANT to be around men kissing? Why would anyone unless they themselves are gay? I dont make a special effort to be around straight couples kissing just because I'm straight. <BR> <BR>And dont bother playing the racism card either, that's the wrong way to go. If you want a game of verbal chess then you've got it, bub, and you're in check.

Tony Hughes

Nancy - what's the point in having a gay orientated hotel if it's no different from any other place?

xxx

Not liking to see two men kiss IS homophobia. Homophobia is NOT the same as homosexual hatred. Many homophobes would not and could not commit a "crime" of discriminating against homosexuals, in the legal sense. But they do not really accept homosexuality in their hearts, minds and everyday lives. <BR> <BR>I think that I am a homophobe, and little by little, I am trying to overcome it. <BR> <BR>I think there is "soft" racism, in an exactly analogous manner. And perhaps I have that too. <BR> <BR>

Jonesy

Hughes, you're wrong: no one (certainly no one named "bub") is in check, logically. It does, too, have to do with what people are unwilling to witness. Question: why would you bother to look, either way? I'm not entirely comfortable with excessive PDAs (public displays of affection, according to local high school regs) but that's my problem, I figure, and I've got better things to look at and ponder. Hand-holding never bothers me; moreover, same-sex hand-holding is common in many cultures and doesn't have anything to do with sexual preference. <BR> <BR>But Tony, methinks you are in serious danger of protesting too much...

Tony Hughes

ok and if i didnt like to see men and women kiss what would i be? anti-homophobic?

nancy

Ack! <BR>this is turning into a contentious post! <BR>but, tony, I have never been in a "gay" hotel, but I think these have been gaining popularity, is not because one can go there and be blatant in one's behavior, but rather so one can go there, and check in a double room with one's partner, and not have the clerk refuse one the room, or to be made to feel that one is an oddity or freak, because of one's personal choices. <BR>If people were not so uncomfortable with gay couples, there would probably not be a need for gay hotels! <BR>I don't know, just speculation. <BR>And I do not want to get into debates, I just think it is sad that gay people are singled out. There is no reason for it.

Tony Hughes

Jonesy, whilst walking along the street, do you look at things or stare down at the sidewalk? You have to have a better argument than that if you want to catch me out. <BR> <BR>As for protesting, you can call me what you like (jerk, gay, a**hole etc) I dont mind, but i stand by what i said - i wouldnt stay in a gay-orientated hotel given the choice. And if that, by your queer logic, makes me gay then so be it.

Tony Hughes

Nancy, those places sound like a good idea for gay couples who have encountered problems in the past at regualr hotels. All I was saying is that I wouldnt want to stay there. This does not make tony a homophobe however you try to spin it.

AC

Hi Kristin: <BR>Why would this be a problem? <BR>Ever been to Greenwich Village in NYC? It is on of my favorite place to walk around in and it has great shops and restaurants. Think the same way about Marais, except it is Paris! <BR>Paris is a lovely city. Perfect for a Honeymoon. Enjoy the wonderful food, <BR>wonderful sights etc. You are going to be out and about so much that your worries will be unfounded. You will be wondering what you were worried about. <BR>Paris is a perfect place to take someone on their first European trip. The travel bug is sure to bite. <BR>Have a great time and a wonderful honeymoon. Congratulations!

kate

Tony, you don't want to see a gay couple kissing anymore than you want to see people urinating in the street? Well, I think that just about sums up your attitutde. What's YOUR definition of homophobia?

kate

And Tony, a "straight hotel" (your words) is ALL hotels.

Zoe

Back to Kristin's question...Kristin, I think you will have a wonderful time in the Marais. I spent a delightful day there a couple of years ago. The Jewish restaurants are quite excellent and there are lots of wonderful little streets lined with craft boutiques that you can wander down. The Place des Vosges is a great place to sit and soak up the atmosphere. Enjoy your honeymoon!

Tony Hughes

'a straight hotel (my words) is ALL hotels' (your words). Seeing as I dont think you have stayed at every hotel in the world, kate, I must assume that you mean ALL hotels that you have encountered. Thus you have never stayed at a gay-orientated hotel. Why not, huh? If it's such a great thing go stay at one. Couldn't be because you're homphobic now, could it??? <BR> <BR>I'll give you my definition of homophobia although I assume you dont really want to know, you just wish to score points off me: someone who is disgusted by homosexual behaviour. I'm not but then again I would rather i did not encounter it, just like i would rather not watch people eating lunch or picking their nose or horse racing on tv or a million other things.

kate

I'm not interested in point scoring Tony, that seems to be your prerogative. My initial response to your first post was a heartfelt sadness about people's attitudes towards gays. Your response (to me and others) is simply to be aggressive and insulting. <BR> <BR>And no, Tony, I'm not homophobic, I'm gay, something I haven't mentioned before because of the prejudice that simple statement encounters.

Jonesy

Tee hee. Tony, do I detect an assumption about me by my "queer" logic? <BR>If so, you'd be dead wrong on a number of things. <BR> <BR>But I'm fascinated by the games you love to play with logic -- winners or losers, never a draw, right? This is all parry-and-thrust to you (so to speak), but you really can't convince us that you aren't something-phobic. You don't want to watch people eat lunch??? Did you never see that scene in Tom Jones? <BR> <BR>As to what I look at on the street? The pavement if there's money. The cars if there's a great old classic. The people if it's that sort of day. The trees. Birds. Dogs. Windows. Sky. My fingernails. If there's anyone picking their nose, I do tend to look away. But strange that you should be so ignorant of what there is to see on the street when there aren't kissing couples. Somehow, I see you obsessing about public chessboards. <BR> <BR>My comment about prostesting too much was, of course, a suggestion that the more you protest, the more you raise questions about what's going on in that odd little soul of yours. This topic has certainly gotten your goat.

Tony Hughes

I've never hidden the fact that I like a good argument, Jonesy. <BR> <BR>Kate, maybe you have a point, maybe not but maybe it's not just my perceived attitude to gay but your attitude to straight?