IMO, that's a week.

Thank you Jean!

Golden, sorry try tripadvisor

You keep using the word 'cities' and that has me a bit concerned. Some of the places being suggested are small towns or even villages. What is it you actually picture yourself doing in these places?

It's not hard to understand a place like Venice. You'll walk around, take a gondola ride, shop, explore smaller streets and look for little local restaurants perhaps.

But in a place like Wengen, Grindelwald or Murren in the Bernese Oberland area of Switzerland, those things will be done in a day. You go to those places to go hiking for a day, ride the trains up to Jungfraujoch, visit Balenburg, rafting on a river or tandem parasailing maybe. Outdoor activities primarily. So it all depends on what you are interested in seeing/doing.

With only 14-16 days, I would suggest only staying in 4 places maximum. Again, moving is lost time. So you need to be clear on what you expect to get out of your time in terms of your interests. Suggesting a city like Venice is much different from an alpine village like Murren or Wengen.

You wrote, "So sticking to Switzerland and Northern Italy, I would love to begin coming of with a few different itineraries if you all could help?" Getting 43 suggestions of places just leaves you more confused than you already were. People tend to promote their favourite places and all that does it gets you the 43 suggestions, not help in reducing the number.

You will do much better saying 'We would like to visit 43 places in Switzerland and northern Italy but since we can't do that in 2 weeks, which 4 places would you choose?' So far this thread is only getting you a LONGER list.

Here's my suggestion.
Fly to Zurich and immediately (same day, arrival day) take a train to Interlaken and lake steamer to the Hotel Giessbach. Book a suite with a view of both the lake and the waterfall.
http://www.giessbach.ch/en/grandhotel-giessbach.html
Look at the home page picture, it is a truly unique hotel. that's the way to start a truly memorable honeymoon. The lake ferry docks at the hotel's own private funicular which then carries you up to the hotel. You can see it in the picture.

At the train station in Zurich airport, go to the The SBB travel centre which is located below the Airport Center in the Check-in 3 area. The ticket counters are open from 06:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. Buy a 3 day Flexipass. This will get you fully paid travel on any 3 days you want during the next 30 days and will get you discounts on all other days. Use the first full day for the train to Interlaken and the lake steamer to Giessbach. Use it for discounts (not full fare) while you are staying in the area.

Day 2: Still a bit jet-lagged, don't overdo it on this day. Take a hike up the falls with a picnic lunch packed by the hotel for you. Keep going past where most will turn back, get right up out of the trees onto the hillsides above with a view over the lake. Have lunch, lay in the sun. Head back to the hotel and enjoy a well earned drink on the hotel terrace. Day done.

Day 3: Ask at the front desk, what the weather for the day is predicted to be and in particular if it is expected to be clear at Jungfraujoch. If it is steamer and train to there is the plan for the day. If it isn't, steamer and bus to Ballenberg is the plan. Jungraujoch only makes sense with clear skies, otherwise there is no point going if you will be on top of a mountain in the clouds and can't see a thing. So you need to keep the option open as to which day you will do that on. Return to hotel for a glass of champagne on the terrace.

Day 4: Jungfraujoch or Balenburg as appropriate. If you can't make it to Jungraujoch because of cloud on both days, you just have to wing it for the day. Visit Interlaken, Wengen, Grindelwald perhaps. Return to hotel........

http://ballenberg.ch/en/Welcome

http://www.jungfrau.ch/en/tourism/de...e/experiences/

Day 5: Check-out of hotel and use pass for full day to travel by ferry to Interlaken and then train to Locarno in the south of Switzerland.

This is a part of Switzerland that no one expects. You can stay in Locarno or take a bus to the smaller town of Ascona, my favourite in the area. I like the Hotel Tamara, right on the lakeside promenade.
http://www.hoteltamaroascona.com/de/galerie
Did you know you can find palm trees in Switzerland?
http://www.myswitzerland.com/en-ca/ascona.html

Check-in to your hotel and relax at a table outside on the promenade while you watch the people walking by and the ferries coming and going on the lake. Stroll the promenade and choose a restaurant for dinner.

Day 6: After breakfast, go to the ferry dock and check the times for the ferry to Brissago island. Buy a ticket that will get you there for lunch. Stroll around the old town's narrow streets in Ascona till it's time to catch the ferry.
http://www.myswitzerland.com/en-ca/ascona.html
Return from the island and relax with a glass of wine, Frascati is popular in the area. Time to think about where you will go for dinner.

Day 7: A relaxing day doing nothing but wandering around town and maybe buying a few little things for yourself. Last time, my wife bought 3 cashmere sweaters (she couldn't make up her mind which she liked best) and I got a new battery put in my watch(that's about the usual division of spending). Browse, stop for lunch, browse, sit on the promenade with a glass of wine and listen to the street musicians play, some are very good, they have to pass an audition to get a permit to play there.

Day 8: After a leisurely breakfast in the hotel, use your railpass discount to take a bus to Locarno and then a bus up the Valle Verzasca to the village of Lavertezzo. If you're adventurous, take your bathing suit. Hop on and off the bus coming and going as you please.
http://wikitravel.org/en/Verzasca_Valley
Return to Ascona sometime in the late afternoon and yes, enjoy a glass of wine on the promenade. Isn't this exausting? Now you have to struggle with the decision of where to have dinner again.

Day 9: Check-out and take the bus to Locarno and train to Venice. Arrive in Venice and take a water taxi to the Cipriani.

I'll leave it there for others to cover your time in Venice and one other location in Italy.

I missed saying that it is when you actually start working out just what you might do in any given day and just how it will fill your time, that you see how quickly your days fill up. That's what I am trying to show you in the above.

> Nowhere compares to the Swiss Alps, the Swiss food and the Swiss culture.

Well, I have spent 20 or 25 weeks of my life in Switzerland talking with Swiss citizens, and this is true, their culture is really unique. They are Europeans, they are very well informed, they are very interested in running their country in the best way and will be very vocal about it. But you really have to talk to them a lot to understand, it is unlikely that a tourist will have the chance.

The food is good, but frankly as an Italian I find that it is nothing really to write about.

Alps are Alps. Some zones like the Berner Oberland, the Dolomites, Aosta valley are more scenic but there are a lot of just-a-little-less-scenic places around.

So in my experience I have came to the conclusion that Austria offers most of the experiences you can find in Switzerland, and some other on his own, at a better quality/price ratio. I suggested Salzburg in the very first post of this thread as the country is dotted with very romantic little (but not really so little) country inns that I would find very appropriate for an honeymoon. The corresponding Swiss inns will be much more expensive and rooms are not so well decorated and comfortable as Austrian ones. Just have a look to their balconies. Swiss are a practical people and will spend some but not too much in flowers that are just a decoration. Austrians are a traditional people and having a beautiful balcony with a lot of geraniums will be a matter of home pride.

Switzerland is expensive, much more so that the SFR is as strong as it never was before, but this is also due to the structure of pricing. Swiss people do not want hidden prices and prefer to pay upfront, so that the price is transparent. When I need a prescription for a long term treatment I phone to my physicians and he will leave the prescription in his letterbox for my to pick. He is paid by the Italian health system and the prescription is free of charge. When my Swiss friend needs a prescription he will phone his physician that will leave in his letterbox a prescription and a SFR 12 bill for the time spent in a "phone consultation". My Swiss friend will pay and file a request for a refund to his private health insurance. It looks that the Swiss system is more expensive, actually I will be paying my physician with heavier taxes. It is more a matter of perception, as at the end of the day my Swiss friend, paying for his physician but getting more money than me for the same work and paying less taxes, will be probably better than me.

After looking at many websites and researching today, my fiance and I still have our hearts set on visiting these cities/villages/places....whatever they may be called.

Lucern~ How many days here? Hotels?

We want to do the Zip Line in Grindelwald Switzerland. Where should we stay in order to do this? Wengen seems beautiful as well.

We would then like to head to Italy. This is where I am having a hard time. I would LOVE to see so many areas, but of course that is just not possible. We have come up with three ideas for Italy:

1. Should we go to Venice and the Lake Como area?
2. Lake Como and Portofino or Santa Margherita?
3. Fly from Milan to Naples and go to Amalfi Coast

Looking for feedback please! Thank you!

As others have said, different people have different preferences. You say you aren't interested in museums and that you've already seen Florence. In that case, my vote is for Venice and Lake Como - Venice has lots of opportunities for strolling and eating and has a unique beauty that I haven't seen anywhere else I've traveled.

Of the three, Venice is the only place I'd bother to see twice. Hope that helps.

There are all lovely places. It really comes down to what YOU want to see and experience. Some questions to consider...

Given that you will have already been to Swotzerland, do you think you'll have had your fill of mountain lake views? If so, maybe leave Lake Como for another time. But if you are crazy for this kind of beauty (and it is beautiful!) then it might be for you.

Venice is beautiful and romantic. It's also crowded, and probably rather hot in June. This bothers some people and not others.

Is including a beach destination a high priority for you?

I don't know what the transportation options are between Venice and Santa Margharita, but it seems like if the transportation were to work out, the combination of Switzerland, Venice, and SML would make a really nice honeymoon with a lovely variety of 3 unique locations.

Thank you all!

I like the idea of Switzerland, Venice, and SML. I feel that would give us a wonderful combination. I would like to try to have some time at a beach destination. As much as I would LOVE to go to Positano, I just cant see how it would make sense to go there when we will be spending most of our time in areas far away from Amalfi.

I feel like I still need help with our Switzerland portion. I know we will fly to Zurich and go to Lucern. We want to do the zip line in Grindelwald. We also would love to do one of the train rides. I have heard the bernina express is great. Any others? What would be the best place to stay in order to hop on the train??

Venice I would like to stay at the Cipriani. Has anyone ever stayed there? Is it somewhat easy to get to St Marks area? Is a trip to Murano/Burano a must? Any restaurant recommendations?

For the Ligurian Coast, should we stay in Santa Margharita OR splurge and spend a few nights in Portofino?
In Santa Margharita should we stay at the Grand Hotel Miramare OR the Imperial Palace? Or any other recommendations??
In Portofino if we decided to stay there, we would spend the money to stay at the Splendido.

Thanks for all the help so far!

>>Venice I would like to stay at the Cipriani. Has anyone ever stayed there? Is it somewhat easy to get to St Marks area?<<

No, I haven't stayed there. But I do know they have a private water taxi that goes back and forth to the San Marco area.

>>Is a trip to Murano/Burano a must?<<

Depends on how much time you have in Venice. Murano/Burano will take up a full day, counting travel. Yes, they're worth it, especially Burano, but again, time is the factor.

Any restaurant recommendations?

Budget? We like a little place called Trattoria da Fiore, in the Sam Marco district and not to be confused with the much more expensive Osteria da Fiore. Good cicchetti. Don't miss the artichoke hearts if in season.

Thank you Vincenzo! I have no problem spending money on great food and wine. Dinner time will be a highlight for us. We are very much looking forward to the italian food and wine. We Love all different types of restaurant scenes.....so if there are very well known restaurants that are a must to visit we would love to enjoy them. Whether they are big crowds or small quant we love it all. I think a few times during our trip being that it will be honeymoon, we will have no problem spending more on dinners.

Hi GoldenGirl1028,

I've skimmed the posts above but haven't read them carefully -- how long is your trip? And will Switzerland be first or last?

To do all that you want to do in Switzerland will take at least 10 days: Luzern, Grindelwald, Bernina Express. (Remember that every time you move bases, you lose about half a day of "outside" time due to the chores of packing up and checking out, then checking in and unpacking again -- so limit the number of moves).

So I guess you definitely want a few nights in Luzern. Grindelwald is too far to see as a day-trip, so you should plan to spend a few nights there as well.

The Bernina Express is on the other side of the country from Grindelwald -- it runs from St Moritz to St. Moritz then over the Bernina Pass to Poschiavo and onward to Tirano in Italy. It IS one of the most scenic train rides I've ever seen, and it's a great way to move from Switzerland to Italy. However, it will take about 6h or 7h to get from Grindelwald to St. Moritz. So, after that long train ride, you ought to spend a few nights in the area, or else you'll end up sitting on a train for 10 hours. So that means 3 or 4 nights around St. Moritz.

So, that means Luzern 3 or 4 nights, then Grindelwald 3 or 4 nights, then St Moritz area 3 or 4 nights.

For that reason, I recommend you just skip the Jungfrau region (Grindelwald or Wengen) on this trip. The Jungfrau region is very popular with first-time visitors to Switzerland, but I've heard Swiss residents say "The Jungfrau doesn't have the best mountains, just the best PR." It does have great tourist infrastructure. But if you just want to see some glorious mountains and mountain villages, then you can find that easily in one of the villages or towns around St. Moritz -- Sils, Silvaplana, Pontresina, Samedan, or Celerina.

So, I would recommend that you leave Luzern and head for one of those villages and stay for 4 or 5 nights -- there's plenty to do there. Then take the Bernina Express to Tirano and then continue to the Italian portion of your trip.

Have fun as you plan!

s

I fully agree with swandav:
If you only want to see high snow mountains and glaciers, there is no need to go to the Bernese Oberland, there are plenty of them along the Bernina Express Line:
http://www.diavolezza.ch/en/
http://www.corvatsch.ch/en/

If you absolutely want to go to Grindelwald-First for the Zip line thing, you may choose between the following solutions:

Train Zurich airport to Grindelwald (3 hrs ride, trains every 30 min).
Train - Grindelwald - Meiringen - Lucerne (2 1/2 hrs ride, trains every hr).
Train Lucerne - Chur (2 hrs ride, trains every 30 min, for example Lucerne dp 6.10 - Chur ar 8.22)
Bernina Express Chur dp 8.32 - Tirano 12.45/13.30 - Milan ar 15.40

It's also possible to travel by PosstBus from Grindelwald across the Swiss Alps:
Grindelwald dp 8.44 - Grosse Scheidegg Pass - Meiringen- Grimsel Pass - Gletsch - Furka Pass - Andermatt 14.50/15.45 - Gotthard Pass - Airolo ar 16.45. Trains:
Airolo dp 16.59 - Milan ar 19.35
Andermatt dp 15.27 - St. Moritz ar 19.55 resp Chur ar 18.01