Rex

As can be observed, the European elites wish to see a centralized, homogenized Europe. In my two visits to Italy, one in 1979 and the other in 1996, I've seen that happen in subtle ways. In Italy, 1979, the traditional Italian afternoon siesta was in full force and it was difficult to find a place to eat or get a drink. Not so with the Italy of 1996. After a morning's meanderings, I would retire to an outdoor cafe and enjoy downing a biera grande, roughly the equivilent of three 12 oz. beers. Though it was delightful to drink a large beer for lunch, what I was doing was out of tradition in Italy. Any other tourist a little leary about enforced homogenization such as the dropping of the Italian siesta? Should Italy's manners and social traditions be made more similar to Belgium's, Denmark's or France's?

nycer

Interesting topic, Rex. My answer is kind of a cop-out, but here goes: when everything in my trip is going well, I don't have too much planned, the weather's good, etc., I think it's great when a country takes a siesta or just in general takes things more slowly. When I'm trying to see as much as I can or to get from place to place or my travelers' cheques have been stolen or whatever, I appreciate a country that is more service-oriented.

Ed

I wonder, Rex, if you're reaching a bit far in implying, I think, that any cultural change is a forced change? <BR> <BR>You mention the diminution (not elimination) of the siesta period in parts of Italy. (e.g. Rome) In fact, it's still difficult to find a shop open between say 1300 and 1500 or 1600. <BR> <BR>But indeed the business day has become compressed in the 35 years I've been visiting Italy. Fewer and fewer businesses operate on the basis of four rush hours including a three hour midday break. <BR> <BR>The availability of airconditioning has far more to do with this change than the EU. More than a bit of the change is also due to Italian employees learning that not all in the world had a workday stretching from 0800 to 2000. Not so strangely, many employees welcome, if not agitate for, shorter days and fewer commutes. Without any help from EU functionaries. <BR> <BR>This change has led to another. The (restaurant) dinner hour has changed by more than an hour in the more than 30 years. Most restaurants didn't open until 2030, more likely 2100, and certainly anyone sitting at table before 2100 was a tourist. Now, most restaurants open by 1930, or 2000 at the latest, and tourists will find themselves joined by Romans by 2000 or 2030. <BR> <BR>Again, this change hardly arose because of an EU ruling. And in fact the change began well before the existence of the EU. <BR> <BR>It's difficult, if not impossible, to judge change and reasons for change by visiting a country for only a few days once every few years. It easy to come to conclusions. Without adequate information the conclusions may be flawed. <BR> <BR>Ed

trevor

I agree with you about the homogenization of Europe, but I have to admit that I mourn the loss of distinctive regional behaviors/customs here at home in the US, too. I think it's a worldwide phenomenon, with technology blurring national boundaries more every day and monetary considerations driving intense competition and increased business hours. It might seem the most noticeable in Europe because it perhaps has the most to lose.

anna

Rex, don't bring Denmark into this. They just voted to stay OUT of the EU.

Sjoerd

Denmark has been in the EU since 1973. And they are still in. They voted not to adopt the euro (currency) for the time being. Which doesn't matter anyway, as the Danish crown is linked to the euro in a +2.5%/-2.5% band anyway.

Brian in Atlanta

Sjoerd, that's interesting re: the Crown. How is that band maintained? Through government "support" or actual revaluation?

frank

No its GLOBALISATION. <BR>I can't see why its anything to do with the European Union. <BR>Its happening all over the world. <BR>Some changes are good, some are bad. <BR>Running an efficient economy with a siesta is tough.The change is due to AIR CONDITIONING not homogenisation. <BR>Whats the bullshit about "european elites" - please be more specific about who you are criticising - I live in europe & I've no idea who you are referring to, or why they should want this.What does "as can be observed" mean - I can't see any "elites" in the EU pushing for hmomgenisation.Please name names. <BR>Most globalisation is being hastened by <BR>multinationals who are mostly US based.

kk

IMHO, Frank is pretty right on.

Lori

My thoughts on the traditional siesta - while I think it is a wonderful tradition and would love to see it in NY (yeah right, can you just imagine!!!), as a tourist I find it to be a pain. I want to see as much as I can since I'm only going to be in a place for a short period, and the fact that everything shut down for 2 hours was annoying. On our most recent trip to France, we found ourselves wasting alot of time just milling around waiting for things to open so we could 'tourist'.

Anita

I agree it's more a consequence of globalization. With so many multi-national corporations more cultural idiosyncracies may disappear. It might be nice if these huge American corporations adopted a siesta, but then again, if I drank 3 beers at lunch I'd need more than 3 hours to recover, maybe by 10 am the next day.

Rex

Ah, nostalgia ain't what it used to be! did Mark Twain say that? If not, I bet he would have been proud to... <BR> <BR>But seriously, don'y you just long for the days of yore, when you could get a really good discussion thread going in your local chat room - - about famine, pestilence and impalings? Instead of this puny little homogenization problem? <BR> <BR>We all get what we go looking for. As I sit here, eating my lunch of Asiago (from Wisconsin) on a baguette (baked right here in Ohio), drinking a glass of riesling (from Oregon), I wonder how much better the picnics will be than what I am eating today. 2% better? 3% better? <BR> <BR>Oh well, I can't buy truffles when I stop to fill up my car and buy a gallon of milk - - at the BP - - at least not yet.

kk

Well, Rex, if you can't have impalings to worry about, how about the global environment?!? This morning's news features the largest hole in the ozone ever, and the first time it has gone over populated land, spreading out from Antarctica. Now let's worry about that, and how globalization of the economy contributes to it. <BR>Whatever happened to the idea of a sustained economy (wasn't that the term)? It's been buried since 1990 and the downfall of Communism around the globe. Whoever thought rampant capitalism could also have its bad points?

Rex

Though this is a travel forum, I thought I would answer the question of who the European elites are by briefly mentioning Denmark and their recent vote regarding the Euro. The entire Danish elite, with very few exceptions, was for the adoption of the Euro as Denmark's currency. All but one newspaper supported the Euro. All the major political parties, "Right" and "Left", supported the Euro. The media was squarely for the Euro. Fortunately, 53% of the Danes said to hell with their elites. Hurrah for them!!!!

Sjoerd

Brian: the band between the euro and the Danish crown is maintained by the Danish Central Bank. Normally, just by telling that such a band exists and will be defended is sufficient to keep the currency within the band. <BR>Rex: the Danish people have voted and that should be respected. However, history will prove that they were wrong. 70% of their economy is dependant on the euro zone (that's why they have linked their currency to the euro) and by choosing not to adopt the euro they will not have any influence on decision making bodies. The Danish vote was actually quite dangerous: nationalism was more important than (economic) reasoning. And please remember that mr. Adolf Hitler was elected into office by popular vote, so the people are not always right.