OK, a popular route: Munich to Salzburg
Fuzzy Math?
Bahn.de: 22,60 to 26 Euro single tickets, without taking in account Bayern-Ticket or such

Raileurope: 48 to 59 $ = +66% resp. +77%

satisfied?

my math:
Munich-Salzburg REurope most trains $48 - a few $59
bahn.de 26 euro (22.6 euro are for regional trains - RE only sells tickets for the IC and EC trains on this route thus we must use the 26 euro fare to compare apples to apples and not apples to oranges 26 euro=$34

RE $48 bahn.de $34 - most trains - this is a 40% mark up not 66% by my math

and for the few $59 fares RE sells where bahn has 26 e or $34 then this is a 52% mark up by my math not 77%

maybe you could explain where my math is wrong?

anyway your point is valid that RE marks up ticket prices but what i was objecting to is saying 90% of the time the markup is 60-80% - i still haven't been shown anything more than 52% and that on a few trains on that route - 40% is the rule. Now 40% is a good markup and you rightly point out that things are much cheaper in Germany, just that you may want to scale down the 60-80% claim.
Reservations are not required on Lucerne-Interlaken Ost Golden Pass trains - Golden Pass is a monniker created by the Swiss Travel System, incorporating the old name of the Panoramic Express. That said if you want a seat in the front of the dome cars in first class you should reserve, according to Swiss rail ticket windows in Interlaken where i've often asked.
The Montreux-Gruyeres-Broc Chocolated Express does require reservations and is first class only, using Belle Epoque Pullman cars and only runs once a day - it's more than transportation - includes visit to cheese factory in Gruyeres and Nestle plant in Broc. Yes regular trains go from Lausanne to Gruyeres constantly and you can't even reserve these.
I share your feelings about the official Bernina and Glacier Expresses - rather take the locals than be sitting in packed train with tour groups - and i think the Glacier Express is one of Europe's most overhyped trains - lots more scenic trains in Suisse than that and it's a long eight hour marathon ride from Zermatt to St Moritz/Chur/Davos - nice scenery but not spectacular. The name Glacier Express came from the glaciers the train once glided by on the Furka Pass area but a few decades ago a new tunnel now runs under the glacier area - tunnel being necessary to allow year round running of trains as the pass could become snow blocked. So even the name is bogus - though you will glimpse some glaciers in Zermatt area.
Bernina Express is Europe's top scenic train in my opinion - two daily services actually have open-air cars, on regular trains no reservations possible - and these are a true delight and yes this train does pass glaciers - get off at Bernina Ospiz and do the glacier walk around a lovely alpine lake.
I applaud your comments about RE ticket pricing. RE actually just raised ticket prices and they were not so out of kilter in Germany before - indeed in 2004 and 2005 many RE German ticket prices were below the www.bahn.de prices but with their recent readjustment as you rightly point out they are now significantly higher.
sincerely PQ

>Munich-Salzburg REurope most trains $48 - a few $59
bahn.de 26 euro (22.6 euro are for regional trains - RE only sells tickets for the IC and EC trains on this route thus we must use the 26 euro fare to compare apples to apples and not apples to oranges 26 euro=$34

RE $48 bahn.de $34 - most trains - this is a 40% mark up not 66% by my math

and for the few $59 fares RE sells where bahn has 26 e or $34 then this is a 52% mark up by my math not 77%

maybe you could explain where my math is wrong?

Let me try. I just looked at Raileurope and they DO sell tickets for RE trains at 48 $ one way. The IC tickets cost 59 $. At the current rate of 1.28 $/€, it means 46 € instead of 26, meaning you overpay by 20€ or 77%.
Official price = 100%
RailEurope price = 177%

Anyway, except of the quantitative disagreement about BY HOW MUCH Raileurope makes it's customers pay too much, I agree with you.

I think i'm using a different math than you -

26 euro and 46 euro i'd say was less than a 50% difference but i understand you may mean 100% diff because it's nearly twice as much - so maybe my math was fuzzy - so maybe what i took you to claim in posts far above i misunderstood in math terms. Anyway best wishes. PQ

OK, so I'm new to this forum and struggling with the purchase of train tickets between Paris and Venice for late July (so I need to get moving!). I've priced out RailEurope and come up with $608 for 2 seniors and 2 youths, 1st class, or $500 2nd class. Based on the comments in this forum, I'm trying to compare that with the French and Italian railroad sites directly, but always come up with some symbol that indicates these tickets cannot be purchased on line, even though reservations are required. They won't even give me comparative prices. What am I doing wrong? Can you book directly through these sites? Am I getting a good deal or a rip-off from RailEurope? Does one dare, in high season, wait until you get to Paris to purchase tickets? Would that be cheaper? Any thoughts?

friedmom: i'd copy your question over and put an apt heading on it like Buying Paris-Venice Tickets Online and make a new original post with your own headline, then i'm sure you'll get some sage advice. As it's now, buried at the end of an old thread that few will keep opening you'll unlikely to get a response.

Through this site, I learned about Budget Europe Travel Service. Their phone number is 800-441-9413 or 800-441-2387. They sell railpasses, tickets, and reservations, and they give great advice. They helped us tremendously with our trip planning!

Since you're discussing ticket prices here, could you tell me how much I should expect to pay on the hourly train (not Thalys) from Amsterdam to Brussels? Would like to know both 1st and 2nd class as I'm told first is easier with luggage.

For prices in U.S. and the special 50% off summer Thalys sale thru RailEurope - good for travel thru the end of August call BETS as in above post - they are the most helpful agency imagineable in my experience as well.

sorry you said non Thalys and i read Thalys - go to www.ns.nl - Dutch Railways web site for those fares - probably about $30-40 in 2nd class i suspect.

Hi "PAL Q"--your information is EXTREMELY helpful! I went to budgeteuropetravel.com and followed your instructions that took me to Die Bahn and I found some good info--but, I am having trouble finding out if there is a HIGH SPEED train (not sure which one that would be--IR, etc) from Milan to Venice. We are going to take a 'slower train' from Interlaken to Milan so we can see the sights, but in order to save some time, we would like to take the faster train from Milan to Venice. Is there an easy way to find that out or is it better to just wait until we get to Milan and look from there?
Thanks for your help!
M. Davis

Meishad - thanks for your generous compliment. There is no real high-speed train Milan-Venice - Italian high-speed trains, called Eurostar Italia (ES) trains only run at high-speeds on the basically all-new high-speed tracks built in the past decade and mainly between Milan, Florence, Rome and Naples. ES trains also run on other routes but not at high speeds they are capable of because of old and congested rail lines, such as the one between Milan and Venice. Though a high-speed railway is in the works on this line current ES trains that run this route are only marginally faster than other 'express' trains like EC (EuroCity) and IC (InterCity) - being 15 minutes faster probably because they don't stop as much or for as long. Regional (R) trains are much slower.
Milan-Venice by ES or CIS (Cisalpino trains from Switzerland) take 2:43 hr
IC and EC take 3:03 hr and R about 3.45-4 hr. Reservations are required only on ES and CIS trains and on the fairly new ICp (InterCityPlus) trains that the bahn.de site i just check doesn't have any on this route for the times i checked.
so go back to the bahn.de site and look at the symbols for trains and times - you'll see there is no trains much faster than any other on this line, even though there are ES trains that are about 20 mins faster - so i wouldn't worry just take any that convenient to you.
If you want to reserve online go to www.trenitalia.com and then you can make a reservation with ticket and either print out your own ticket at home - get a code to retrieve them at an ATM-like machine in stations or ticket window, or, in the case of ES trains mainly i think a code to give the conductor on the train.
In any case the cost of Milan-Venice is so cheap i wouldn't worry about scouring the trenitalia site for the discounted PREM tickets.
Ask in Switzerland, if not having a pass, to buy a Interlaken-Venice ticket via Milan and have them make the reservation. Though reservations are not mandatory on many non-ES trains this is changing quickly. If on the bahn.de site you click on details below the schedules it will then tell you whether reservations are compulsory on that train - if they are you should reserve in Switzerland as lines in Milan can be very long.

PalQ, I agree; you give good advice. Shortly after posting my query about the Paris to Venice route, I discovered budgettraveleurope.com and also found them very helpful. We purchased Paris-Milan tickets from them, but they advised us to purchase the Milan to Venice part once we got to Milan because the best connection was only a 15 minute change time, and one can't be sure the train will be on time. They said the Italian trains are not friendly about allowing you to use a ticket on a later train if you miss the first one. So we may have to wait an hour in Milan, but it's safer. They said there should be no problem getting tickets and 4 seats. Do you agree? It makes me a little nervous, since I'm used to the American way of reserving everything in advance, but they assured me it would be fine on the local trains that don't require reservations. Any thoughts?

Hi mom,

>They said the Italian trains are not friendly about allowing you to use a ticket on a later train if you miss the first one.<

I'm assuming that you will take the shuttle bus from MXP to Milan Centrale.

If you buy a ticket on an IC (not ES*) train, that ticket is good for any train that day.

You will not have a reserved seat if you miss your train. However, you can purchase a seat reservation for about 3E while waiting for the next train.

((I))

Friedmom: perhaps you could purchase the Milan-Venice train and reservations in Paris - leaving more than 15 minutes of course connecting time as yes trains can be late and Milano is a huge, huge station with dozens of tracks. Info is clearly labeled but it just takes time, with luggage, to navigate the maze of tracks.

Hi Sonny (oops, Ira) and PalQ; Thanks for the info. I think the issue was that the two trains we would have liked to have taken (one to Milan, the other from Milan to Venice) both required reservations at the time of ticket purchase, at least from the US, and the connection time was short, and the tickets were "non-exchangeable", at least at the price we paid. That's why we were warned not to purchase the 2nd leg of the journey in advance. Our tickets just arrived for the Paris to Milan trip, and we may well purchase the 2nd leg in Paris. We'll see if the train is leaving on time! Ira, I'm not sure what you mean about a shuttle from MXP to Centrale, since our Paris train goes to Milano Centrale. What's MXP? It's an interesting process, sorting this all out for first-timers like ourselves! Thanks for the help.

MXP is the Milan airport.

We're traveling in France in October, and I just did a search on RailEurope for round-trip tickets on the TGV for 2 in economy class from Paris to Avignon and was quoted $196 for one-way. By comparison, I searched sncf.com and the same train for 2 cost 70 Euro. I'm afraid it's looking like altamiro is right - Americans (and Asians) are paying for the rail subsidy of European countries? This totally sucks. Reservations are required for the TGV, so I don't understand how you could buy tix the day of in Paris? I called the Budget Europe Travel and they told me you will not necessarily get a cheaper ticket the day of, and then there's no guaranteed seat. Not to mention, who wants to wait in the train station all day hoping to get on a train. It's cheaper to rent a car for our five days into the country then for us to travel by train (even though going by train is much more preferred). Does anyone else have advice on how to find discounted fairs on the TGV?