Help with Paris metro fines please!!
 

Hello,

So I just returned from the Louvre to my hotel via the metro, and I was stopped at the station and given a €63 fine for not having a valid ticket! Except I bought my ticket from the machine in the station, stuck it in the machine to get through the gate, and gave it to the guy when he asked to see it. What more can I do? He still says it isn't good, I get to pay a fine.

So my questions are many, as the ticket people wouldn't explain anything. I tried to ask if it is a problem with the ticket or with the stamp from the gate? Because at the station I entered, there was a hold up at the gate, and then people holding the gates open for others and stuff, which was weird, but I still put my ticket through the gate. Could this have caused it to be 'stamped' wrong? Can the machines actually dispense faulty tickets?

I was planning to take the metro again tomorrow, but if I obey all the rules and still get fined then.... I don't know what to do.

I didn't pay the €30 at the station, as I can't see I've done anything wrong, and thus now have a €63 fine. Any advice would be appreciated!

You did not buy say a demi-tariff ticket or some discounted ticket for folks under a certain age by mistake - easy enough to do at machines.

I definitely didn't do that! I was very careful about that one. Besides, I wasn't asked for any proof that I deserved a demi-tariff ticket, which I assume he would have done if that's what I had given him.

Assuming the person ticketing you was legit - I would have paid the 30E fine and "chalked it up" to the cost of visiting Paris. You'll probably pay more than 30E for the bottle of wine you'll have with dinner tonight. Do a little "digging" as PalenQ mentioned - but the ticket was probably caused by the "hold-up" at the gate. We've encountered a few of these and I always wondered what would happen if a Metro Cop asked to see my "questionable" ticket.

Stu Dudley

Okay, well €30 is my budget for a night's accommodation, and my dinner consists of a bowl of cereal. The backpackers life. But that isn't really the issue. Was I unlucky enough to arrive at the exact point the gates broke, before anyone could do anything about it? Because I put my ticket in, it spat it out the other side, and I proceeded-- I did not have a "questionable" ticket. I'm mostly concerned about future metro rides. How can I avoid another arbitrary fine?

Here is the address for contesting the fine and explaining your case. Be sure to include all details as well as the original ticket.

RATP Service Clientèle
TSA 81250
75564 PARIS CEDEX 12

I'm sure that writing to them in English will be fine.

Thank you Kerouac! I won't have a fixed address for another month.... Do you think they would respond to a Canadian address? I will just include my email and hope they contact me that way. I can't imagine they'd have anything to send me back.

Sorry, also: do you mean I should include the initial rejected ticket stub, or the copy of the ticket and fine that I received?

Both.

I'm not sure the Metro cops can detain you. They attempted to write us up for a fine once and we just walked off.

A friend told me that there are people in the Metro who impersonate officials and approach tourists in a scam attempt to "fine" them. Maybe kerouac can confirm if he knows of this type of rip-off?

Rubicund - this scam does exist, but this doesn't sound like what happened to the OP.

There is something strange with this story, I agree. It doesn't make sense why you'd get a ticket if your ticket were indeed valid. What kind of ticket did you buy? You just say you bought one but not what kind. And you don't say where your hotel was. Although if it were in a different zone, you wouldn't have been able to exit that easily (if on the RER).

YOu did give him the ticket you had just put in the turnstile, didn't you? Because sometimes I have used ones in my pocket from a prior trip and they wouldn't be good. If you are sure it was stamped in the machine and actually saw the stamp on it, I really don't understand. If you didn't see any stamp on it or didn't look, that could be the reason -- it didn't get stamped and that would be a violation (as if stopped, you could just show some ticket you had but had not used).

Except on the various travel forums, I have absolutely never heard of anybody impersonating ticket checkers in all of the years that I have lived in Paris (that makes 41 years now). They always work in groups of 3 to 6 (and sometimes with police backup in my part of town), so it would be rather difficult for scammers to organize such a scam for such pitiful returns since most people without valid tickets don't pay the fine on the spot anyway. On top of that they would need Navigo pass scanners, and frankly I don't think these are available online from Amazon.

It should be pointed out, however, that the ticket checkers sometimes work in plain clothes, particularly on buses. But they put their armbands on and flash their cards when the ticket checking begins.

There are or used to be RATP (metro-RER operator) info offices in the likes of main train stations - if these still exist pop into one and ask the staff this question and show your ticket and ask why?

I doubt if they would be of any help. Sales people and enforcement people are completely different species -- not to mention that fact that they would not be allowed to express any sort of opinion concerning what another department did.

What would be the ramifications of just ignoring the fine - normally I see do the crime pay the fine but in this case it does appear something went wrong - what if they just ignore paying the fine?

Ya these guys were definitely legitimate. They had jackets and badges and the works, and the girl spent 10 minutes trying to decipher my Canadian drivers license so she could write me a ticket. I don't see scammers going through that hassle when I'm not giving them any money.

It does on reflection appear to be (sort of) my error. I did buy a full price ticket, and I was only going two stops to transfer to a different line, so it wasn't an issue of zones. I put it in the machine to get through the gate, but it didn't get stamped. So it looked like I didn't validate my ticket. I just assumed the gates work like they are supposed to and didn't check for a stamp at the time. When I compared it to my old tickets at home I do see the lack of stamp marks. So ya. My own fault I guess for assuming that the machinery functions properly. It does mean that no one in authority would believe that I truly did put it through the gates :P so it looks like I'm stuck with a fine.

You might phone the Canadian Embassy in Paris.

Otherwise, I'd ignore the ticket.

They must be checking more often now -- I don't think we'd ever had to show our tickets on previous trips, but we just got home from our trip to Paris and had been asked to show our tickets at least 3 times.

>>Otherwise, I'd ignore the ticket.<<

If they wrote down your address in Canada, they will probably send you a "violation" that you can pay on-line. We got a highway speeding ticket 2 weeks ago in the mail & paid it. How many non-French people get tickets every year on the Metro???? If France ignored the non-payers - it might "open the gates" for everyone to ignore paying their tickets. We were also "sited" by the radar for speeding on two other occasions last year, but never received an actual ticket in the mail. We did receive a mail ticket about 3 years ago & paid it.

Stu Dudley

Once, in Italy, we inserted our ticket into the machine, heard it make the noise and we pulled it out. Sure enough, it didn't stamp it. Had to put it in another machine. Am I glad I checked it. We were asked for tickets on board and several people in our area got big fat fines for a variety of mistakes with their tickets. Whewww..we dodged a bullet with that one.

"Once, in Italy, we inserted our ticket into the machine, heard it make the noise and we pulled it out. Sure enough, it didn't stamp it."
The same thing happened to me in Bologna. The machine made its usual noise, I didn't pay attention and boarded the train. I was going to Ferrara, it is a short journey and fortunately I had a return ticket. I was very lucky : the conductor only fined me €4 (the price of the ticket) instead of the usual €44.

I was wondering how they would follow up on it, as they didn't write down my address. They do have my name and drivers licence number, so can they find me from that? I don't know how much information sharing happens between governments.

>> I don't know how much information sharing happens between governments.<<

Probably none for this type of situation. But it's the "probably" that worries me.

There have been a few posts about this in the past on this forum. Nobody knows for sure, but I think kerouac and perhaps Pvoyageuse (who both live in France) speculated that information exchange within France is increasing - just like it has here in the US. Perhaps French immigration control (both in & out of France) at airports will check, or if you ever get stopped by the police in France and asked for your drivers license ??? Or if you rent a car & have to present your license (I doubt this one).

In our case, the car rental company who owned the car/license plate that was ticketed, supplied our name & address to the police - and charged us something like 25E to do so (that's how we know about the 2 occasions when we did not receive an actual ticket).

Stu Dudley

On many metro systems fines are imposed summarily - you give your passport or ID and they keep it until you pay. If Paris doesn't want foreign scofflaws to abuse the system just impose fines right away - make em pay right away.

Hmm. I guess I will take my chances with not paying. I don't actually drive, despite having a license, so I will never rent a car or get pulled over in France. I leave France in less than a week via bus, and have no foreseeable plans to come back in the near or distant future. If I felt I was truly at fault I would pay up no problem, but given the circumstances I will take my chances. If anything results, I will keep people updated, and maybe we can figure out what happens once and for all. I can view it as research rather than fare-dodging. Thanks to everyone who gave input, it's great knowing there are knowledgeable people available if stuff like this comes up!

If they just took your name, I don't think you risk anything if you don't get caught more than once a year without a valid metro ticket. Probably the data base would only set off a red light if you got stopped 3 or 4 times in a short period of time.

However, I still think you should write to the RATP and send them your ticket if you think that you did nothing wrong. The magnetic strip can be decoded and will show when and where the ticket was used, even if the machine did not print the code in ink.