JoelCairo

Hi all,

I think I finally have an outline for this trip, but I was hoping to get some advice to avoid any potential pitfalls. We haven't bought airline tickets yet, but have been watching prices and will likely do so very soon Here's what I have so far. Please tell me if there is something obvious I am overlooking.

Fly into Heathrow. Catch Oxford Bus:

2 nights: Hang out in Oxford for while getting over jet lag.

1 night: Rent car and head to Hay-on-Wye for an overnight. (My wife is a bibliophile and absolutely insisted. She also said I probably didn't want to let her spend two days there.)

3-4 nights: Farmstay in North Wales. (Must have horses. My daughter is nuts for horses. Collies would be a definite plus.)

3 nights: Edinburgh (I assume we'll pretty much leave the car parked somewhere while we're here.)

2 nights: Glencoe and around

3 nights: Isle of Skye. Then, drive to Inverness and drop off car at the airport. Fly to London. (Will book shortly after buying the main ticket)

4-5 nights: London (and then Eurostar to Paris, but that's another post...)

Some data about us, if it helps: We are ~40, casual walkers but not trekkers. My wife is a bibliophile and also loves beaches and good food. My daughter is 6, loves horses, dogs, trains, boats, and running around. I have a particular interest in ruins and prehistoric sites. We are fine with cities, but not really nightlife people (especially not with a 6 year-old in tow).

A few other things. This schedule has us going through Hay-on-Wye well before the Festival there - this was on purpose. My one major concern is that it looks like we'll be on the Isle of Skye during the bank holiday. i assume I should book early to account for this?

Thanks for the patience with the stupid questions!

JC

JoelCairo

Sorry, forgot to mention - this trip is mid-May to early June.

JC

janisj

Just one very quick comment now - I'd maybe cut one night from N. Wales and break the journey to Edinburgh. That is a long haul so I'd want to stop one night somewhere if I had a young child along.

You could stop along Hadrian's wall in Northumberland.

Or possibly in the Lake District.

JoelCairo

janisj,

Thanks - I was going back and forth on that one. I was considering a stopover in the Lake District at one point - Hadrian's Wall hadn't occurred to me and, frankly, appeals to me more.

JC

JoelCairo

Hope I don't annoy anyone by topping this, but I did a little more research and was hoping for some more feedback.

Reworking the rough itinerary so it looks something like:

Day:

1 Fly into LHR. Bus to Oxford. Try to get over jet lag.

2 Leave Oxford mid-morning. Pick up rental car. Drive to Hay-on-Wye (or nearby) via Avebury, maybe Tintern (or ?)

3 Wife browsing bookshops in Hay-on-Wye. Daughter and I doing something fun.

4 Drive to farmstay in North Wales - see stuff on the way.

5-6 Farmstay in N. Wales. Poke around a little dependent on weather

7 Drive to somewhere near Hadrian's Wall (Durham?)

8 Hadrian's Wall area

9 Drive to Glencoe (or near) via Stirling(?)

10 Glencoe area

11 Drive to Skye via Mallaig ferry

12-13 Skye

14 Drive to Pitlochry(?) via Urquhart(?)

15 Pictish Stones (Meigle area)/Perthsire

16-18 Drop off car/Edinburgh

19-20 London (Yes, I know this is very short. We will be back to London soon.)

21 Eurostar to Paris (already purchased)

Does this seem reasonable given our goals?

Thanks!

JC

BigRuss

Pitlochry is useful only as a stopping point on a longer trip or a place to grab lunch when journeying THROUGH it; it's not a destination.

There's a lot of pick-up-and-go and short stays on this itinerary and that will wear on the girl (and on you and the wife - don't kid yourself, we cannot travel as easily at 40 as we did at 30) no matter how many horses, doggies and highland coos she sees.

sofarsogood

Days 7 and 8

If you're focusing on Hadrian's Wall, Durham, though it has a magnificent cathedral, isn't particularly close - it's about 60 - 90 minutes away. I'd stay closer to the Wall, for example Haltwhistle; Vindolanda is nearby.

annhig

hi Joel,

I'm a bit confused about how many nights you have in each place.


1 Fly into LHR. Bus to Oxford - stay one night.

2 Drive to Hay-on-Wye.

3 Hay-on-Wye.

4 Drive to farmstay in North Wales.

5-6 N. Wales.

7 Hadrian's Wall (Durham?)

8 Hadrian's Wall area

9 Glencoe (or near) via Stirling(?)

10 Glencoe area

11 Skye via Mallaig ferry

12-13 Skye

14 Drive to Pitlochry(?) via Urquhart(?)

15 Pictish Stones (Meigle area)/Perthsire

16-18 Drop off car/Edinburgh

19-20 London (Yes, I know this is very short. We will be back to London soon.)

21 Eurostar to Paris (already purchased)

i make this 1-2-3-2-2-2-1-1-3-2-1

i make that 20 nights, with very few stays of more than 2 nights, which is going to be hard work, and a lot of travelling and hours in the car, not just for you but for your 6 year old.

IME holidays with kids are hugely improved if they can sleep in the same bed for periods of a week or more; they tend not to like "touring" type trips.

given the fact that you've got 3 weeks, I think that you could easily fit in t least one week, and north wales might be the place to do it; especially if you can find somewhere with horses and dogs, your DD will be furious is you only spend a couple of days there [which is all you've got at the moment].

I would suggest the following:

Day 1. fly in. bus to Oxford.

Day 2 - drive to Hay.

Day 3 - Hay.

Day 4 - drive to North Wales. stay at least 5 nights.

Day 10 - drive to Hadrian's wall.

Day 12 - drive to Glencoe.

Day 14 - Drive to Skye

Day 17 - Drive to Edinburgh

Day 20 - fly to London

Day 21 - eurostar to Paris. [shame you'd already bought the eurostar tickets else you could have flown direct from Edinburgh to Paris]

Ideally I would lose either Glencoe or Skye to give you more time in London, but given you'll be back soon, i would prioritise Edinburgh.

have a great trip!

annhig

oh, i just thought, as you are locked into that eurostar trip, why not fly into Edinburgh?

after a few days in Edinburgh, Set off from there to the highlands, then, work your way south.

something like this:


Day 1. fly into Edinburgh/Glasgow. Stay Edinburgh 3 nights

Day 4 - drive to Glencoe.

Day 6 - drive to Skye.

Day 9 - drive to Hadrian's wall [this might need tweeking due to distance]

Day 11 - Drive to North wales

Day 17 - Drive to Hay

Day 19 - drive to London

Day 21 - eurostar to Paris.

janisj

Definitely consider annhig's second idea. I'd tweak that one a bit though.

I'd land at LHR and fly on to Inverness that day. Stay one night in Inverness (I usually tell folks to avoid staying IN Inverness -but this would be a sleepover and for that the city is fine)

The next day pick up a car and meander down to Edinburgh over 3 or 4 days (Loch Ness/Skye/Glencoe and Perthshire if that is a must). A couple of days in Edinburgh. Then tour Edinburgh > Hadrians Wall> North Wales > London (w/ a stop enroute in Stratford or Warwick or Oxford.

annhig

jj - i like your tweeks.

However with a child of 6, I would want at least one, preferably two decent length stays within my 3 weeks.

I've tried touring with kids, and IMO it is less successful than staying put.

if they follow my 2nd route, more or less, they don't need Stratford, Oxford or Warwick, as they've got Haye on Wye [which is a MUST].

indy_dad

Hi Joel,

We've been in the UK for about 2 years now and have visited some of your destinations. You are touching on some of our favorites (Scotland, North Wales, Lake District). Have a look at my trip reports/blogs to see if that helps. FYI, we went to Scotland at the same time last year.

Scotland Highlands
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...rip-report.cfm

Edinburgh
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-with-kids.cfm

N. Wales
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...orth-wales.cfm

Lake District
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...e-district.cfm

Good luck

padams421

We spent a month in Great Britain when our sons were just a bit older than your daughter. I would be concerned with a 6 year that you have many days of driving. She may be the best backseat passenger ever, but you will be traveling in a car on 10 of your 21 days.

For this reason, I think trains work well with children on Europe trips as the child can get up and walk around, visit the snack car, and be entertained by the novelty of train travel.

As for your itinerary, I like the above suggestions of redoing your route. Otherwise, I would cut out some of your destinations and do fewer, longer drives.

janisj

"<i>However with a child of 6, I would want at least one, preferably two decent length stays within my 3 weeks. </i>"

I agree - it would be a different trip but it might be more enjoyable foreveryone.

Also think about all that backseat time (and front seat time for that matter). It may get very old. Do realize there will not be a single long straightaway except for a couple of your motorway days (between Oxford and London, and between Carlisle and Chester). For the rest of your route it will be <i>constant</i> twisty/turny rural driving.

So if you can bear it - I'd consider cutting back on the range/scope a bit. You do have mostly 2 and 3 days stops - so it definitely isn't terrible. MUCH better than a lot of the plans we see here. But just something to think about . . .

BigRuss

<<MUCH better than a lot of the plans we see here. >>

That's a bloody low threshold.

Actually, once Annhig spelled out the nights per stop, the itinerary looked worse. You can easily stay in Inverness area for 3 nights and do . . . stuff or go from Inverness to Skye for a few nights then to Edinburgh for a few then a long trip to Wales for the farm stay (just suck it up one day) and back to London for more than one or two nights (London is catnip for kids - Tower, double-deck buses, Hamley's, Eye, parks, museums).

Questions are what do YOU (or all of you) want out of Scotland? Everything else seems fairly well-defined: girl wants to see critters, wife wants to peruse books (can't you just leave her on Charing X Road in London for an afternoon and bugger off somewhere interesting with the hobbit? or do one overnight in Hay en route to the Welsh countryside?), you're American and we all love London, etc. The Scottish portion seems nebulous.

annhig

<<MUCH better than a lot of the plans we see here. >>

That's a bloody low threshold.>>

Big Russ, did I say that here or on another thread? anyway, I agree with the thrust of what you say - too much moving about.

janisj

"<i>Big Russ, did I say that here or on another thread?</i>"

No - annhig --I'm the guilty party

>><i>So if you can bear it - I'd consider cutting back on the range/scope a bit. You do have mostly 2 and 3 days stops - so it definitely isn't terrible. MUCH better than a lot of the plans we see here. But just something to think about . . .</i><<

annhig

lol, jj - i now see that it was you, but I did say something very like that just recently on another thread.

perhaps we were separated at birth? or twins in an earlier life.

JoelCairo

On second thought - I agree with the gist of what you all are saying and I think I realized, subconsciously, that we were biting off a bit more than we could chew by asking for a reality check - funny because on another site I give substantially similar advice to (primarily) European travelers to the U.S.

The only thing I am really wedded to in this itinerary is the first few days - my wife absolutely insists on Hay-on-Wye at about this time.

Looking at maps again, I am thinking that perhaps it might be wiser to dramatically limit the scope to something like:

1 Oxford
2 Drive to Hay-on-Wye
3 Hay-on-Wye
4-7 N. Wales
8-11 Lake District
12-15 Northumberland/Hadrian's Wall
16-17 York (Drop Car here)
18-20 London

and save Scotland for next time? I am a junkie for ruins (historic and prehistoric) and I imagine that Wales and Northumberland sould be a decent fix.

We have 3-4 weeks each May-June - perhaps a couple of years from now.

Does this sound more reasonable?

(BTW, thanks to everyone who responded.)

JC

padams421

Much better JoelCairo! You now have an itinerary (and a second later trip to Scotland to plan).